vpFREE2 Forums

Guaranteed video poker is at station casinos

#1

I saw it at the Fiesta Rancho--by the bar near Keno.
.Some info below:
--Quarter players can buy 75 hands for $20 or 200 hands for $40
--Dollar players can by buy 100 hands for $100 or 275 hands for $200
(some games offer extra hands for the same money mentioned above
( Bonus poker, Dueces wild, Jacks or better)
----The machine shows the hands decreasing(upper left) and the
credits are shown on the lower right, fluctuating between plus+ or
Minus-

---When you are finished playing you collect any winnings or walk
away
(if you are minus credits---you don't owe anything)
---Paytables are Similar to what Stations offer today(no Optimums)
---If you hit a good hand ( eg 4 aces) and want to cash out you can,
but you forfet all remaing games you pre-paid for. This will also
happen if you want to move to another machine during your guaranteed
play
---You can hit the Jumbo Jackpot, and boarding pass points are based
on what amount you bought in for.
--Each machine had a choice to play the "guarenteed play" or the
traditional way.

---I was told all Station casinos will have them---the roll out
started today

#2

I saw it at the Fiesta Rancho--by the bar near Keno.
.Some info below:

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "sheiky2" <sheiky2@...> wrote:

There were six banks of twelve machines each at GVR. They are located
at the top of the Grand Events center. The GVR hired help have been
talking them up for a week now. I'm still digesting the info to decide
if I want to play them....probably not. They are a good entertainment
value to kill some time but other than that, what's the upside? (1)
You don't earn much in the way of points. (2) All the games are
standard Stations pay tables so they're all negative games. Please
discuss!

#3

I was at Red Rock today and had I seen this post this morning, I
would
of at least looked for the machines. After reading this, my initial
reaction was positive, but based on an assumption or two.

Let's say it's a busy night at RR. All the OP machines are in use
and
lurkers are ready to pounce. So the casual player can either leave,
or
perhaps decide (as an example) to play 25c 8/5 Bonus. Said player
knows that by inserting $20, a minimum of 16 bets are guaranteed.

Or said player can "buy" 75 bets for the exact same price (this
assumes the exact same paytable). Unless I am missing something,
this
seems like Bets On Sale.

There were six banks of twelve machines each at GVR. They are

located

at the top of the Grand Events center. The GVR hired help have been
talking them up for a week now. I'm still digesting the info to

decide

if I want to play them....probably not. They are a good

entertainment

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "staninnv" <arnot@...> wrote:

value to kill some time but other than that, what's the upside? (1)
You don't earn much in the way of points. (2) All the games are
standard Stations pay tables so they're all negative games. Please
discuss!

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "sheiky2" <sheiky2@> wrote:
>
> I saw it at the Fiesta Rancho--by the bar near Keno.
> .Some info below:

#4

What you say is true( bonus poker you get 100 hands for $20, in
quarters)
But, suppose you hit 4 Aces( bonus poker) on the first hand for a
plus 400 credits( $100) if you cash out you lose your $20 investment
so you would only have won $80. If you bought 200 hands for $40 you
would only have won $60. If you keep playing the guaranteed hands
that are left you could also lose many of the credits you won on the
aces

I was at Red Rock today and had I seen this post this morning, I
would
of at least looked for the machines. After reading this, my

initial

reaction was positive, but based on an assumption or two.

Let's say it's a busy night at RR. All the OP machines are in use
and
lurkers are ready to pounce. So the casual player can either

leave,

or
perhaps decide (as an example) to play 25c 8/5 Bonus. Said player
knows that by inserting $20, a minimum of 16 bets are guaranteed.

Or said player can "buy" 75 bets for the exact same price (this
assumes the exact same paytable). Unless I am missing something,
this
seems like Bets On Sale.

>
> There were six banks of twelve machines each at GVR. They are
located
> at the top of the Grand Events center. The GVR hired help have

been

> talking them up for a week now. I'm still digesting the info to
decide
> if I want to play them....probably not. They are a good
entertainment
> value to kill some time but other than that, what's the upside?

(1)

> You don't earn much in the way of points. (2) All the games are
> standard Stations pay tables so they're all negative games.

Please

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "staninnv" <arnot@> wrote:
> discuss!
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "sheiky2" <sheiky2@> wrote:
> >
> > I saw it at the Fiesta Rancho--by the bar near Keno.
> > .Some info below:

#5

What you say is true( bonus poker you get 100 hands for $20, in
quarters)

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "sheiky2" <sheiky2@...> wrote:

The machines I looked at gave 75 hands for $20 and 200 hands for $40.

#6

Yes, that's true but some games give you extra hands ( Bonus poker,
Dueces wild , Jacks or better)There is a little sign by the game that
tells you how many bonus hands you get.

···

>
> What you say is true( bonus poker you get 100 hands for $20, in
> quarters)

The machines I looked at gave 75 hands for $20 and 200 hands for $40.

#7

What you say is true( bonus poker you get 100 hands for $20, in
quarters)
But, suppose you hit 4 Aces( bonus poker) on the first hand for a
plus 400 credits( $100) if you cash out you lose your $20

investment

so you would only have won $80. If you bought 200 hands for $40 you
would only have won $60. If you keep playing the guaranteed hands
that are left you could also lose many of the credits you won on

the

aces

Ok maybe I'm completely missing something here....haven't seen one of
these machines yet.
But from whats been described you buy 100 hands for $20. the 100 hand
countdown is in the upper left corner and the credits won are in the
upper right corner (or somthing similar)
If you play a countdown to finish the 100 hands are they also taking
5 credits each game you play? if so when you buy 100 hands do you
start with 80 credits?
sorry this concept is confusing to me..........thanks!

#8

You start with zero credits. Therefore, if you play even for the 100
hands you end up with nothing rather than the $20 you get back on a
standard VP game. That's the catch.

Dick

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "udamom" <udamom@...> wrote:

Ok maybe I'm completely missing something here....haven't seen one of
these machines yet.
But from whats been described you buy 100 hands for $20. the 100 hand
countdown is in the upper left corner and the credits won are in the
upper right corner (or somthing similar)
If you play a countdown to finish the 100 hands are they also taking
5 credits each game you play? if so when you buy 100 hands do you
start with 80 credits?
sorry this concept is confusing to me..........thanks!

#9

It would seem that the optimal play would be different in these types of machines. I would think that these charts would dictate a higher level of acceptable risk for the larger payouts than "traditional" play.

···

From: "mroejacks" <rgmustain@aol.com>
Reply-To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Guaranteed video poker is at station casinos
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:58:33 -0000

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "udamom" <udamom@...> wrote:
> Ok maybe I'm completely missing something here....haven't seen one of
> these machines yet.
> But from whats been described you buy 100 hands for $20. the 100 hand
> countdown is in the upper left corner and the credits won are in the
> upper right corner (or somthing similar)
> If you play a countdown to finish the 100 hands are they also taking
> 5 credits each game you play? if so when you buy 100 hands do you
> start with 80 credits?
> sorry this concept is confusing to me..........thanks!

You start with zero credits. Therefore, if you play even for the 100
hands you end up with nothing rather than the $20 you get back on a
standard VP game. That's the catch.

Dick

_________________________________________________________________
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#10

It would seem that the optimal play would be different in these types

of

machines. I would think that these charts would dictate a higher

level of

acceptable risk for the larger payouts than "traditional" play.

You may be right. It seems clear that higher variance games would give
you more chances to hit jackpots for a lower cost. Certain strategy
changes can raise the variance even more. I've thought about this a
little and still don't have a feel for how to compute this effect. It
may be we need to factor the initial cost into each hand and attack it
that way ??? It's an interesting problem. Too bad I don't have any
time right now.

Dick

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "David Silvus" <djsilvus@...> wrote:

#11

Tes, they take 5 credits each time you play a hand( if your at
minus- 5 credits and you hit a 3 of a kind that would put you at +10
credits). When you buy the 100 hands you start with 0 credits

> Ok maybe I'm completely missing something here....haven't seen

one of

> these machines yet.
> But from whats been described you buy 100 hands for $20. the 100

hand

> countdown is in the upper left corner and the credits won are in

the

> upper right corner (or somthing similar)
> If you play a countdown to finish the 100 hands are they also

taking

> 5 credits each game you play? if so when you buy 100 hands do

you

> start with 80 credits?
> sorry this concept is confusing to me..........thanks!

You start with zero credits. Therefore, if you play even for the

100

hands you end up with nothing rather than the $20 you get back on

a

···

standard VP game. That's the catch.

Dick

#12

sheiky2 wrote:

I saw it at the Fiesta Rancho--by the bar near Keno.
.Some info below:
--Quarter players can buy 75 hands for $20 or 200 hands for $40
--Dollar players can by buy 100 hands for $100 or 275 hands for $200
(some games offer extra hands for the same money mentioned above
( Bonus poker, Dueces wild, Jacks or better)
----The machine shows the hands decreasing(upper left) and the
credits are shown on the lower right, fluctuating between plus+ or
Minus-

---When you are finished playing you collect any winnings or walk
away (if you are minus credits---you don't owe anything)
---Paytables are Similar to what Stations offer today(no Optimums)
---If you hit a good hand ( eg 4 aces) and want to cash out you can,
but you forfet all remaing games you pre-paid for. This will also
happen if you want to move to another machine during your guaranteed
play
---You can hit the Jumbo Jackpot, and boarding pass points are based
on what amount you bought in for.
--Each machine had a choice to play the "guarenteed play" or the
traditional way.

---I was told all Station casinos will have them---the roll out
started today

What guaranteed play (GVP) buys you is loss protection on the number
of hands into which you buy (you can lose no more than the buy-in
during the specified period of play). As noted, the buy-in does not
increase your starting meter from "0". If you end the session with a
win, you walk just with the gain on the hands, not the buy-in. And,
on a $20 buy-in, any session loss on your hands, whether $1 or $100
will be covered by your $20 buy-in.

Anaysis of the game is very difficult -- both in terms of the worth of
that protection and the applicable game strategy. There's little
question that as your hands dwindle and you find yourself in negative
turf that it pays to aggressively play for quads and the like.

IGT has likely done a very intense computer simulation to arrive at a
strong estimate of the machine payback for the casino. It's my guess
that IGT has "priced" the buy-ins to present a roughly neutral return
vs. standard play. However, that equivalency presumes a strong
adjusted strategy -- most players can be expected to fall short and in
those cases GVP will have a weaker player return.

- Harry

#13

What you're saying is this is a stupid game to play, and I
wholeheartedly agree. Why would anyone even want to begin to
analyze it? Aren't the casinos putting in such bastard games to
make more money off us? Stick with 10/7 double bonus or FPDW, etc.
and forget about junk like this. If enough people did then maybe
when they get sick they wouldn't have to worry if the health care's
better and cheaper at the Equator.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...>
wrote:

What guaranteed play (GVP) buys you is loss protection on the

number

of hands into which you buy (you can lose no more than the buy-in
during the specified period of play). As noted, the buy-in does

not

increase your starting meter from "0". If you end the session

with a

win, you walk just with the gain on the hands, not the buy-in.

And,

on a $20 buy-in, any session loss on your hands, whether $1 or $100
will be covered by your $20 buy-in.

Anaysis of the game is very difficult -- both in terms of the

worth of

that protection and the applicable game strategy. There's little
question that as your hands dwindle and you find yourself in

negative

turf that it pays to aggressively play for quads and the like.

IGT has likely done a very intense computer simulation to arrive

at a

strong estimate of the machine payback for the casino. It's my

guess

that IGT has "priced" the buy-ins to present a roughly neutral

return

vs. standard play. However, that equivalency presumes a strong
adjusted strategy -- most players can be expected to fall short

and in

···

those cases GVP will have a weaker player return.

- Harry

#14

dboland000 wrote:

What you're saying is this is a stupid game to play, and I
wholeheartedly agree. Why would anyone even want to begin to
analyze it? Aren't the casinos putting in such bastard games to
make more money off us? Stick with 10/7 double bonus or FPDW, etc.
and forget about junk like this. If enough people did then maybe
when they get sick they wouldn't have to worry if the health care's
better and cheaper at the Equator.

What is it that makes it a "stupid game"? Simple that you don't like
the format?

On the surface, there's nothing to say that this isn't a very good
play opportunity. It certainly would be, below some buy-in theshold.
At the extreme, I'd hope you'd go running to it if there were no
buy-in and you simply got to walk with any winnings at the end of your
play. So, the question becomes at what buy-in is the game attractive.

The very fact that there is an uncertain economic prospect means that
there could be something to exploit. That's plenty of reason to
analyze it.

- H.

#15

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...>
wrote:

dboland000 wrote:
> What you're saying is this is a stupid game to play, and I
> wholeheartedly agree. Why would anyone even want to begin to
> analyze it? Aren't the casinos putting in such bastard games to
> make more money off us? Stick with 10/7 double bonus or FPDW,

etc.

> and forget about junk like this. If enough people did then maybe
> when they get sick they wouldn't have to worry if the health

care's

> better and cheaper at the Equator.

Hmmmm ... did that sound a little like Rob?

What is it that makes it a "stupid game"? Simple that you don't

like

the format?

On the surface, there's nothing to say that this isn't a very good
play opportunity. It certainly would be, below some buy-in

theshold.

At the extreme, I'd hope you'd go running to it if there were no
buy-in and you simply got to walk with any winnings at the end of

your

play. So, the question becomes at what buy-in is the game

attractive.

The very fact that there is an uncertain economic prospect means

that

there could be something to exploit. That's plenty of reason to
analyze it.

In any event, Harry is right. One way to understand this is to look
at the extreme high variance game. One that pays only for the RF
(something between 100-120K credits) but with perfect strategy
returns 100%. On a standard game you get 16 chances for $20 most of
the time. With GVP you'd get 75 chances. If the game paid back 100%
with the normal approach it would pay back significantly more with
GVP.

So, the question is how do we determine a cut-off where the
additional variance more than adjusts for the buyin penalty? Of
course, the casinos may require a larger buyin for high variance
games which would nullify this approach.

Dick

#16

---Thanks...makes sense now. Still confused if it would ever be a good
play...but I'll let all you math geniuses figure that out!! :o)
trish

You start with zero credits. Therefore, if you play even for the 100
hands you end up with nothing rather than the $20 you get back on a
standard VP game. That's the catch.

Dick

_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more….then map the best

route!

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%

20theater&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-
1000&scene=950607&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01

···