vpFREE2 Forums

Greektown barring article

#1

Just got back from Las Vegas, so I am behind on all the digest mail from vpfree but I thought I would offer this update:

First of all, the Anthony Curtis article was in Strictly Slots in March of 2003. The barring occurred in November 2002. I have a hard copy somewhere and I know I have a scanned copy as well. I remember that I wasn't entirely thrilled with the article after it came out and talked to AC a couple of times about it. AC maintains that casinos should be allowed to bar patrons. I don't totally agree but AC has been booted from many more casinos that I have and must have reasons for that belief.

AC also wrote about the Greektown JOB billboard incident and agreed with me 100% that casinos shouldn't be able to revoke comps and still count them as part of the over all return.

As soon as I locate the article I will post more.

On Bob Dancer outing players, I don't know what is truth is. I do firmly believe that Bob Dancer working with Greektown is the only reason I was reinstated. I have my theories on why I was the 'Greektown One' but I can't really prove them so I will keep them out of print. Bob originally questioned Greektown's intelligence in barring players. I think he said the move was like shooting fleas with an elephant gun. I don't know if fleas comment was a shot at us players or not.

Finally, the new crew at Greektown has done all they can to erase the memory of that particular business decision. They have welcomed me back and treated me very well.

Based on the revenue drops right after the barring, I think the decision cost them in the tens of millions in revenues. November of 2002 was their highest revenue month ever. Then the barrings happened. They haven't returned to that revenue number yet.

I will catch up on the digests and post more when I have find that Strictly Slots article. I kept all of the Greektown article links but they have mostly expired. I do have some hard copies of some of the information.

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#2

Johnny wrote: I do firmly believe that Bob Dancer working with Greektown
is the only reason I was reinstated. I have my theories on why I was
the 'Greektown One' but I can't really prove them so I will keep them
out of print. Bob originally questioned Greektown's intelligence in
barring players. I think he said the move was like shooting fleas with
an elephant gun. I don't know if fleas comment was a shot at us players
or not.

The "like shooting fleas with an elephant gun" simile was intended to
portray significant overkill and not meant to be taken literally. It was
a spur-of-the-moment comment given to a reporter for the Detroit News
(Becky Yerak --- no longer there) who called me up asking for a reaction
to the barrings, and the comment got some national press. I was not
seriously suggesting that casinos use guns at all or that players had
much in common with fleas.

Paladin has recently stated/implied that there was some dishonesty
between some of the players and some Greektown employees and that me
helping to get players back let some "slot cheats" back in. He might be
right. I have no knowledge of that one way or the other. I only met any
of the players after the fact and possibly only heard a "sanitized"
version of what really happened. As Johnny mentions, though, the
barrings were a public relations nightmare for the casino. I belive the
casino did well to let the players back in. If one or more of the
players is suspected of "cutting corners", that player can be watched
closely in the future. It is a totally different thing to bar players
because of cheating than it is because of success at the games. (One
lady had been barred for hitting a $10,000 royal on dollar Pick'Em. My
reaction is that anyone naive enough to play a 97% game should be given
free limosine service to and from the casino rather than be restricted.)
Had the public perceived that cheating was the source of the problems,
Greektown wouldn't have been semi-boycotted. But right or wrong, that
wasn't the perception and the casino did well to cut their losses and
move on.

Bob Dancer

For a 3-day free trial of Video Poker for Winners, the best video poker
computer trainer ever invented, go to //www.videopokerforwinners.com

#3

Let's clear this up, because your post could be read the wrong way by
others.

A) Bob assisted in having those barred reinstated, and was successful.

B) Some of those barred were involved in getting inside help on the
drawings.

C) Bob was certainly unaware of (B), if he had, he certainly would
have not been as helpful getting the other 4 reinstated. After all,
this would look very bad otherwise. While I don't expect Bob to be
omnipotent, likely he has resources familiar with the Detroit VP scene
and if he had used those resources, he might have been able to better
assist his client, the Kewadins, in protecting the machines and
promotions better.

I actually happened to be in Detroit when this happened. It was pretty
amusing. As I noted elsewhere, and Bob does as well in his post, some
of those barred were squares. I'm guessing this is what got Bob's
attention, but certainly if Bob knew how good some of the plays were,
like 100% machine blackjack with .67 and 1.33% cards and $5-$25 PE
with 1% cards, he might have camped out there for a while as well.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bob.dancer@...> wrote:

Paladin has recently stated/implied that there was some dishonesty
between some of the players and some Greektown employees and that me
helping to get players back let some "slot cheats" back in. He might be
right. I have no knowledge of that one way or the other. I only met any

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#4

As to the drawings, I'll defer to Johnny Z and others. My offhand
recollection is that there were no significant drawing promotions
that coincided with the 2% CB promotion in 2001. There were drawings
during 2002, and it was possible to "muscle" the outcomes by earning
lots of points (at the time, VP earned tickets at the same rate as
slots). As to any "inside help" with the drawings, I once again know
not what the full truth may be. I won 3-4 drawings for a total of
about $2,000 without any special help, and I then was a relatively
small ($1 Pick Em) player. I'm not surprised that those playing $10/
$25 PE and the like won a lot more drawings. -- The GMan

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
<paladingamingllc@...> wrote:

B) Some of those barred were involved in getting inside help on the
drawings.

C) Bob was certainly unaware of (B), if he had, he certainly would
have not been as helpful getting the other 4 reinstated. After all,
this would look very bad otherwise. While I don't expect Bob to be
omnipotent, likely he has resources familiar with the Detroit VP

scene

and if he had used those resources, he might have been able to

better

assist his client, the Kewadins, in protecting the machines and
promotions better.

I actually happened to be in Detroit when this happened. It was

pretty

amusing. As I noted elsewhere, and Bob does as well in his post,

some

of those barred were squares. I'm guessing this is what got Bob's
attention, but certainly if Bob knew how good some of the plays

were,

···

like 100% machine blackjack with .67 and 1.33% cards and $5-$25 PE
with 1% cards, he might have camped out there for a while as well.

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