vpFREE2 Forums

Graduating Paybacks on Slots

#1

After 2 1/2 years of bad luck playing VP, I decided to try the slots. I recently came upon a new IGT penny machine at the Reno Peppermill. What caught my eye was signage that said something to the effect that higher bets have higher payback percentages. There are 5 buttons, allowing for 50, 100, 150, 200, and 250 credit bets. The 100, 150, and 200 buttons say "higher payback" and the 250 says "highest payback." I thought it was illegal (at leaast in NV) to change the payback for different bet amounts but apparently not. I'm wondering if anyone has heard of graduating paybacks and what the range might be from lowest to highest. The IGT web site says that this game has paybacks from 85% to 98% but is that the range from the 50 credit bet to the 250 credit bet? I don't see how this machine could advertise a specific payback percentage since they don't know what the average size bet would be. BTW, the machine was "The Little Shop of Horrors" and I won $630 on a $2.50 bet, more than I've won with larger bets on VP in 2 1/2 years. It took 20 minutes for the bonus to playout. Needless to say, I'm even less inclined to play VP now.

Comments please.

George

#2

Of course graduating paybacks is legal. Think VP - you have a better royal
pay on 5 coins than on 1 coin, right? Hence a better payback %.

···

On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 8:27 PM, George <wxmen@sonic.net> wrote:

**

After 2 1/2 years of bad luck playing VP, I decided to try the slots. I
recently came upon a new IGT penny machine at the Reno Peppermill. What
caught my eye was signage that said something to the effect that higher bets
have higher payback percentages. There are 5 buttons, allowing for 50, 100,
150, 200, and 250 credit bets. The 100, 150, and 200 buttons say "higher
payback" and the 250 says "highest payback." I thought it was illegal (at
leaast in NV) to change the payback for different bet amounts but apparently
not. I'm wondering if anyone has heard of graduating paybacks and what the
range might be from lowest to highest. The IGT web site says that this game
has paybacks from 85% to 98% but is that the range from the 50 credit bet to
the 250 credit bet? I don't see how this machine could advertise a specific
payback percentage since they don't know what the average size bet would be.
BTW, the machine was "The Little Shop of Horrors" and I won $630 on a $2.50
bet, more than I've won with larger bets on VP in 2 1/2 years. It took 20
minutes for the bonus to playout. Needless to say, I'm even less inclined to
play VP now.

Comments please.

George

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

Not to mention that there are multi denomination VP machines with Hey babe
schedules that vary.

Of course graduating paybacks is legal. Think VP - you have a better royal
pay on 5 coins than on 1 coin, right? Hence a better payback %.

**

After 2 1/2 years of bad luck playing VP, I decided to try the slots. I
recently came upon a new IGT penny machine at the Reno Peppermill. What
caught my eye was signage that said something to the effect that higher

bets

have higher payback percentages. There are 5 buttons, allowing for 50,

100,

150, 200, and 250 credit bets. The 100, 150, and 200 buttons say "higher
payback" and the 250 says "highest payback." I thought it was illegal (at
leaast in NV) to change the payback for different bet amounts but

apparently

not. I'm wondering if anyone has heard of graduating paybacks and what

the

range might be from lowest to highest. The IGT web site says that this

game

has paybacks from 85% to 98% but is that the range from the 50 credit bet

to

the 250 credit bet? I don't see how this machine could advertise a

specific

payback percentage since they don't know what the average size bet would

be.

BTW, the machine was "The Little Shop of Horrors" and I won $630 on a

$2.50

bet, more than I've won with larger bets on VP in 2 1/2 years. It took 20
minutes for the bonus to playout. Needless to say, I'm even less inclined

to

play VP now.

Comments please.

George

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

On Jul 27, 2011 9:27 PM, "Jason Pawloski" <jpawloski@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 8:27 PM, George <wxmen@sonic.net> wrote:

#4

Hmm....not so good at voice to text...."pay tables" was intended.

Not to mention that there are multi denomination VP machines with Hey babe
schedules that vary.

Of course graduating paybacks is legal. Think VP - you have a better

royal

pay on 5 coins than on 1 coin, right? Hence a better payback %.

**

After 2 1/2 years of bad luck playing VP, I decided to try the slots. I
recently came upon a new IGT penny machine at the Reno Peppermill. What
caught my eye was signage that said something to the effect that higher

bets

have higher payback percentages. There are 5 buttons, allowing for 50,

100,

150, 200, and 250 credit bets. The 100, 150, and 200 buttons say "higher
payback" and the 250 says "highest payback." I thought it was illegal

(at

leaast in NV) to change the payback for different bet amounts but

apparently

not. I'm wondering if anyone has heard of graduating paybacks and what

the

range might be from lowest to highest. The IGT web site says that this

game

has paybacks from 85% to 98% but is that the range from the 50 credit

bet

to

the 250 credit bet? I don't see how this machine could advertise a

specific

payback percentage since they don't know what the average size bet would

be.

BTW, the machine was "The Little Shop of Horrors" and I won $630 on a

$2.50

bet, more than I've won with larger bets on VP in 2 1/2 years. It took

20

minutes for the bonus to playout. Needless to say, I'm even less

inclined

to

play VP now.

Comments please.

George

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

On Jul 27, 2011 9:32 PM, "Rprosdc" <rprosdc@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jul 27, 2011 9:27 PM, "Jason Pawloski" <jpawloski@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 8:27 PM, George <wxmen@sonic.net> wrote:

#5

"Comments please."

If you feel that a 98% (doubtful, but sure possible) slot machine is better than a 99.54% (or greater) VP machine I'm not sure what other comment would be helpful.

People play for different reasons... what's yours? Do what makes you happy, seriously, but just don't expect logic to back it up. :slight_smile:

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "George" <wxmen@...> wrote:

After 2 1/2 years of bad luck playing VP, I decided to try the slots. I recently came upon a new IGT penny machine at the Reno Peppermill. What caught my eye was signage that said something to the effect that higher bets have higher payback percentages. There are 5 buttons, allowing for 50, 100, 150, 200, and 250 credit bets. The 100, 150, and 200 buttons say "higher payback" and the 250 says "highest payback." I thought it was illegal (at leaast in NV) to change the payback for different bet amounts but apparently not. I'm wondering if anyone has heard of graduating paybacks and what the range might be from lowest to highest. The IGT web site says that this game has paybacks from 85% to 98% but is that the range from the 50 credit bet to the 250 credit bet? I don't see how this machine could advertise a specific payback percentage since they don't know what the average size bet would be. BTW, the machine was "The Little Shop of Horrors" and I won $630 on a $2.50 bet, more than I've won with larger bets on VP in 2 1/2 years. It took 20 minutes for the bonus to playout. Needless to say, I'm even less inclined to play VP now.

George

#6

Been a standard feature on most slot machines for a very long time!

Think about the Royal Flush payback on video poker which basically was
"borrowed" from the slot machine practice of paying a bigger multiple on a
max coin bet.

Many video slots now have bonus progressives that can only be won by playing
max bet while playing for lesser bets causes bonus bets to be paid at fixed
multiples.

Also so called "buy a pay" slots may have a much greater shortfall when you
play less than max. A modern example is the original Wheel of Fortune slot
where if you played 1 or 2 coins, the "Spin" symbol on the 3rd reel would
win only 5 times your bet instead of the wheel spin which averaged 26 times
your bet.

···

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
mleist
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:46 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Graduating Paybacks on Slots

"Comments please."

If you feel that a 98% (doubtful, but sure possible) slot machine is better
than a 99.54% (or greater) VP machine I'm not sure what other comment would
be helpful.

People play for different reasons... what's yours? Do what makes you happy,
seriously, but just don't expect logic to back it up. :slight_smile:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> , "George"
<wxmen@...> wrote:

After 2 1/2 years of bad luck playing VP, I decided to try the slots. I

recently came upon a new IGT penny machine at the Reno Peppermill. What
caught my eye was signage that said something to the effect that higher bets
have higher payback percentages. There are 5 buttons, allowing for 50, 100,
150, 200, and 250 credit bets. The 100, 150, and 200 buttons say "higher
payback" and the 250 says "highest payback." I thought it was illegal (at
leaast in NV) to change the payback for different bet amounts but apparently
not. I'm wondering if anyone has heard of graduating paybacks and what the
range might be from lowest to highest. The IGT web site says that this game
has paybacks from 85% to 98% but is that the range from the 50 credit bet to
the 250 credit bet? I don't see how this machine could advertise a specific
payback percentage since they don't know what the average size bet would be.
BTW, the machine was "The Little Shop of Horrors" and I won $630 on a $2.50
bet, more than I've won with larger bets on VP in 2 1/2 years. It took 20
minutes for the bonus to playout. Needless to say, I'm even less inclined to
play VP now.

George

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

Yes, I realize that the RF and progressives require a higher bet but these are spelled out in plain view for anyone who cares to look. I was talking about a slot game where you may select 1X, 2X, 5X, or 10X the line bet for example. I thought that the payback% had to be identical for all multipliers of the line bet.

George

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pyiddy" <pyiddy@...> wrote:

Been a standard feature on most slot machines for a very long time!

Think about the Royal Flush payback on video poker which basically was
"borrowed" from the slot machine practice of paying a bigger multiple on a
max coin bet.

Many video slots now have bonus progressives that can only be won by playing
max bet while playing for lesser bets causes bonus bets to be paid at fixed
multiples.

Also so called "buy a pay" slots may have a much greater shortfall when you
play less than max. A modern example is the original Wheel of Fortune slot
where if you played 1 or 2 coins, the "Spin" symbol on the 3rd reel would
win only 5 times your bet instead of the wheel spin which averaged 26 times
your bet.

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
mleist
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:46 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Graduating Paybacks on Slots

"Comments please."

If you feel that a 98% (doubtful, but sure possible) slot machine is better
than a 99.54% (or greater) VP machine I'm not sure what other comment would
be helpful.

People play for different reasons... what's yours? Do what makes you happy,
seriously, but just don't expect logic to back it up. :slight_smile:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> , "George"
<wxmen@> wrote:
>
> After 2 1/2 years of bad luck playing VP, I decided to try the slots. I
recently came upon a new IGT penny machine at the Reno Peppermill. What
caught my eye was signage that said something to the effect that higher bets
have higher payback percentages. There are 5 buttons, allowing for 50, 100,
150, 200, and 250 credit bets. The 100, 150, and 200 buttons say "higher
payback" and the 250 says "highest payback." I thought it was illegal (at
leaast in NV) to change the payback for different bet amounts but apparently
not. I'm wondering if anyone has heard of graduating paybacks and what the
range might be from lowest to highest. The IGT web site says that this game
has paybacks from 85% to 98% but is that the range from the 50 credit bet to
the 250 credit bet? I don't see how this machine could advertise a specific
payback percentage since they don't know what the average size bet would be.
BTW, the machine was "The Little Shop of Horrors" and I won $630 on a $2.50
bet, more than I've won with larger bets on VP in 2 1/2 years. It took 20
minutes for the bonus to playout. Needless to say, I'm even less inclined to
play VP now.
>
>
>
> George
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

no, it can vary, and it does
often maxbet has max return, but not always
sometimes minbet is max return

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "George" <wxmen@...> wrote:

Yes, I realize that the RF and progressives require a higher bet but these are spelled out in plain view for anyone who cares to look. I was talking about a slot game where you may select 1X, 2X, 5X, or 10X the line bet for example. I thought that the payback% had to be identical for all multipliers of the line bet.

George

— In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pyiddy" <pyiddy@> wrote:
>
> Been a standard feature on most slot machines for a very long time!
>
> Think about the Royal Flush payback on video poker which basically was
> "borrowed" from the slot machine practice of paying a bigger multiple on a
> max coin bet.
>
> Many video slots now have bonus progressives that can only be won by playing
> max bet while playing for lesser bets causes bonus bets to be paid at fixed
> multiples.
>
> Also so called "buy a pay" slots may have a much greater shortfall when you
> play less than max. A modern example is the original Wheel of Fortune slot
> where if you played 1 or 2 coins, the "Spin" symbol on the 3rd reel would
> win only 5 times your bet instead of the wheel spin which averaged 26 times
> your bet.
>
>
>
> From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
> mleist
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:46 AM
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Graduating Paybacks on Slots
>
>
>
>
>
> "Comments please."
>
> If you feel that a 98% (doubtful, but sure possible) slot machine is better
> than a 99.54% (or greater) VP machine I'm not sure what other comment would
> be helpful.
>
> People play for different reasons… what's yours? Do what makes you happy,
> seriously, but just don't expect logic to back it up. :slight_smile:
>
> — In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> , "George"
> <wxmen@> wrote:
> >
> > After 2 1/2 years of bad luck playing VP, I decided to try the slots. I
> recently came upon a new IGT penny machine at the Reno Peppermill. What
> caught my eye was signage that said something to the effect that higher bets
> have higher payback percentages. There are 5 buttons, allowing for 50, 100,
> 150, 200, and 250 credit bets. The 100, 150, and 200 buttons say "higher
> payback" and the 250 says "highest payback." I thought it was illegal (at
> leaast in NV) to change the payback for different bet amounts but apparently
> not. I'm wondering if anyone has heard of graduating paybacks and what the
> range might be from lowest to highest. The IGT web site says that this game
> has paybacks from 85% to 98% but is that the range from the 50 credit bet to
> the 250 credit bet? I don't see how this machine could advertise a specific
> payback percentage since they don't know what the average size bet would be.
> BTW, the machine was "The Little Shop of Horrors" and I won $630 on a $2.50
> bet, more than I've won with larger bets on VP in 2 1/2 years. It took 20
> minutes for the bonus to playout. Needless to say, I'm even less inclined to
> play VP now.
> >
> >
> >
> > George
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

#9

As far as I know a machine can pay whatever the casino wants it to in expectation baed on bet size as long as it meets gaming requirements (someone told me around 85%). There are a lot of machines that do this, for example rescue spin machines by Aruze give you an extra bonus game if you are max betting which obviously adds value since you dont have to bet for the bonus games.

Casinos should make slots play this way, if they are holding 4% on a dollar bet then a 2 dollar bet should be a hold of 2%, otherwise, players would have less incentive to play bigger, as all they gain is extra variance.

And also I'd like to point out that playing 98% games over 99-101% games just because you havnt hit a royal yet isnt the smartest thing to do, but if you just want entertainment then yeah flashy light are I guess better than a repetitive deck of cads. GL

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "George" <wxmen@...> wrote:

Yes, I realize that the RF and progressives require a higher bet but these are spelled out in plain view for anyone who cares to look. I was talking about a slot game where you may select 1X, 2X, 5X, or 10X the line bet for example. I thought that the payback% had to be identical for all multipliers of the line bet.

George

— In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pyiddy" <pyiddy@> wrote:
>
> Been a standard feature on most slot machines for a very long time!
>
> Think about the Royal Flush payback on video poker which basically was
> "borrowed" from the slot machine practice of paying a bigger multiple on a
> max coin bet.
>
> Many video slots now have bonus progressives that can only be won by playing
> max bet while playing for lesser bets causes bonus bets to be paid at fixed
> multiples.
>
> Also so called "buy a pay" slots may have a much greater shortfall when you
> play less than max. A modern example is the original Wheel of Fortune slot
> where if you played 1 or 2 coins, the "Spin" symbol on the 3rd reel would
> win only 5 times your bet instead of the wheel spin which averaged 26 times
> your bet.
>
>
>
> From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
> mleist
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:46 AM
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Graduating Paybacks on Slots
>
>
>
>
>
> "Comments please."
>
> If you feel that a 98% (doubtful, but sure possible) slot machine is better
> than a 99.54% (or greater) VP machine I'm not sure what other comment would
> be helpful.
>
> People play for different reasons… what's yours? Do what makes you happy,
> seriously, but just don't expect logic to back it up. :slight_smile:
>
> — In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> , "George"
> <wxmen@> wrote:
> >
> > After 2 1/2 years of bad luck playing VP, I decided to try the slots. I
> recently came upon a new IGT penny machine at the Reno Peppermill. What
> caught my eye was signage that said something to the effect that higher bets
> have higher payback percentages. There are 5 buttons, allowing for 50, 100,
> 150, 200, and 250 credit bets. The 100, 150, and 200 buttons say "higher
> payback" and the 250 says "highest payback." I thought it was illegal (at
> leaast in NV) to change the payback for different bet amounts but apparently
> not. I'm wondering if anyone has heard of graduating paybacks and what the
> range might be from lowest to highest. The IGT web site says that this game
> has paybacks from 85% to 98% but is that the range from the 50 credit bet to
> the 250 credit bet? I don't see how this machine could advertise a specific
> payback percentage since they don't know what the average size bet would be.
> BTW, the machine was "The Little Shop of Horrors" and I won $630 on a $2.50
> bet, more than I've won with larger bets on VP in 2 1/2 years. It took 20
> minutes for the bonus to playout. Needless to say, I'm even less inclined to
> play VP now.
> >
> >
> >
> > George
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

#10

I realize that it isn't the smartest thing to do but I've gotten so used to losing $1000 or even $2000 per trip on VP, I figure I might as well lose it on slots and have some fun and have the casino shower me with benefits.

George

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bo Farrwood" <bfarrwood@...> wrote:

As far as I know a machine can pay whatever the casino wants it to in expectation baed on bet size as long as it meets gaming requirements (someone told me around 85%). There are a lot of machines that do this, for example rescue spin machines by Aruze give you an extra bonus game if you are max betting which obviously adds value since you dont have to bet for the bonus games.

Casinos should make slots play this way, if they are holding 4% on a dollar bet then a 2 dollar bet should be a hold of 2%, otherwise, players would have less incentive to play bigger, as all they gain is extra variance.

And also I'd like to point out that playing 98% games over 99-101% games just because you havnt hit a royal yet isnt the smartest thing to do, but if you just want entertainment then yeah flashy light are I guess better than a repetitive deck of cads. GL

— In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "George" <wxmen@> wrote:
>
> Yes, I realize that the RF and progressives require a higher bet but these are spelled out in plain view for anyone who cares to look. I was talking about a slot game where you may select 1X, 2X, 5X, or 10X the line bet for example. I thought that the payback% had to be identical for all multipliers of the line bet.
>
> George
>
> — In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pyiddy" <pyiddy@> wrote:
> >
> > Been a standard feature on most slot machines for a very long time!
> >
> > Think about the Royal Flush payback on video poker which basically was
> > "borrowed" from the slot machine practice of paying a bigger multiple on a
> > max coin bet.
> >
> > Many video slots now have bonus progressives that can only be won by playing
> > max bet while playing for lesser bets causes bonus bets to be paid at fixed
> > multiples.
> >
> > Also so called "buy a pay" slots may have a much greater shortfall when you
> > play less than max. A modern example is the original Wheel of Fortune slot
> > where if you played 1 or 2 coins, the "Spin" symbol on the 3rd reel would
> > win only 5 times your bet instead of the wheel spin which averaged 26 times
> > your bet.
> >
> >
> >
> > From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
> > mleist
> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:46 AM
> > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Graduating Paybacks on Slots
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Comments please."
> >
> > If you feel that a 98% (doubtful, but sure possible) slot machine is better
> > than a 99.54% (or greater) VP machine I'm not sure what other comment would
> > be helpful.
> >
> > People play for different reasons… what's yours? Do what makes you happy,
> > seriously, but just don't expect logic to back it up. :slight_smile:
> >
> > — In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> , "George"
> > <wxmen@> wrote:
> > >
> > > After 2 1/2 years of bad luck playing VP, I decided to try the slots. I
> > recently came upon a new IGT penny machine at the Reno Peppermill. What
> > caught my eye was signage that said something to the effect that higher bets
> > have higher payback percentages. There are 5 buttons, allowing for 50, 100,
> > 150, 200, and 250 credit bets. The 100, 150, and 200 buttons say "higher
> > payback" and the 250 says "highest payback." I thought it was illegal (at
> > leaast in NV) to change the payback for different bet amounts but apparently
> > not. I'm wondering if anyone has heard of graduating paybacks and what the
> > range might be from lowest to highest. The IGT web site says that this game
> > has paybacks from 85% to 98% but is that the range from the 50 credit bet to
> > the 250 credit bet? I don't see how this machine could advertise a specific
> > payback percentage since they don't know what the average size bet would be.
> > BTW, the machine was "The Little Shop of Horrors" and I won $630 on a $2.50
> > bet, more than I've won with larger bets on VP in 2 1/2 years. It took 20
> > minutes for the bonus to playout. Needless to say, I'm even less inclined to
> > play VP now.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > George
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>