vpFREE2 Forums

Gold Coast & all Coasts

From: "fourtooz" <deuceswild4@juno.com>
Steve, you hit the nail right on the head. Excellant post...

Tooz

Thanks Tooz!

Harry Porter and Skip Hughes have the right idea - get the word out that the
Coasts have "tightened" all their machines, reducing pay on some video poker
by 1%.

I really don't think the advantage players who complain will have much
effect. As someone said earlier, the Coasts know exactly what they are
doing - targeting 50 to 100 specific players, and not worrying much about a
little collateral damage.

Meanwhile, If I run into Michael at the Olympic Garden I will be sure to
discuss this with him - over a lap dance, of course!

SK
"You don't appreciate a lot of stuff in school until you get older.
Little things like being spanked every day by a middle aged
woman: Stuff you pay good money for in later life."

···

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Steve Kent wrote:

Meanwhile, If I run into Michael at the Olympic Garden I will be sure
to discuss this with him - over a lap dance, of course!

Maybe you could conspire with a "dancer" to soft talk him into
loosening those machines again while tightening up to him.

(you know that I'm not referring to "Bob", right?)

- H.

>From: "fourtooz" <deuceswild4@j...>
>Steve, you hit the nail right on the head. Excellant post...
Tooz

Thanks Tooz!

I really don't think the advantage players who complain will have

much

effect. As someone said earlier, the Coasts know exactly what they

are

doing - targeting 50 to 100 specific players, and not worrying much

about a

little collateral damage.

This will be my final comment on this subject. I would like to
present this scenario:
Let's say that the Coast casinos tick off 300 advantage players and
we wont go back there any more. I'm sure a lot of you know there are
about 6,000 people a month moving to Las Vegas. Lets say 50%(3,000)
of them will want to enjoy the casino experience and play VP or slots
on a regular basis after they move here. Of those 3,000 how many do
we think are advantage players? 1 or 2 maybe? So the bottom line is
the casinos lose a TOTAL of 300 advantage customers who are hurting
their bottom line and gain 3,000 clueless customers EVERY MONTH who
are going to enhance their bottom line. If you were running a
business which customer group would you target your marketing efforts
towards? As Steve says, they know exactly what they are doing...
Tooz

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kent" <kent@s...> wrote:

fourtooz wrote:

So the bottom line is
the casinos lose a TOTAL of 300 advantage customers who are hurting
their bottom line and gain 3,000 clueless customers EVERY MONTH who
are going to enhance their bottom line. If you were running a
business which customer group would you target your marketing efforts
towards? As Steve says, they know exactly what they are doing...
Tooz

4-2's, I get exactly where you're coming from. And indeed, there's
little doubt in my mind that that's exactly where the collective head
of Coast Casinos is.

But I sense just a bit that you find the end result a foregone
conclusion. If I'm mistaken, please excuse me. I seem to have gotten
on my high horse here (and over on vp-mail). That's because I worry
that as a group we feel rather impotent in this situation.

Frankly, prospects for steering the momentum of machine cuts back are
likely nominal. But my take on the situation is that if there's
something that I can do that even remotely might positively affect the
situation and only takes 15 minutes, I'm certainly going to give it a
shot. In this case, I just don't see a downside for doing so. And I
always get a bit of a charge of having taken some action on a matter
than I'm unhappy with.

OK, off the soap box. But if someone is interested in jotting just a
quick note off on the subject, the contact information follows. Even
if it isn't published, a steady stream of letters and emails will at
least keep LVRJ focussed on the situation.

Send your replies and letters to:
letters@r...

or

Letters To the Editor
P.O. Box 70
Las Vegas, NV 89125

- Harry

By the way, I'll give you guys a rest from my diatribe very shortly.
As I've noted, I'm off to LV first thing in the morning -- desperate
to make another killing! I'll be back Apr. 6. And I gotta tell you,
this group has been a real asset. If I've shouldered an attitude from
time to time in the past, I humbly ask you to be patient. I get over
myself eventually :).

- H.

You are correct Harry. A clear example is, if all the votes in the Florida 2000 election were correctly tabulated, we would probably be living an a different "Geopolitical" world. When the bean counters go over their quarterly earnings at the Coast Properties, they would love to have that additional 1/2 of 1/2 of 1/2 of 1% back in their pockets from the gaming that had lost.
So one voice can make a difference. Especially as the economy is not projected to rebound in the near future. The airlines are projecting a $10 billion loss for 2003, hotel census is down, cruise lines are reducing rates deeply and gamblers are not gambling as much. Besides, the indian casinos have to eat into Vegas profits in some form.
To paraphrase "Field of Dreams', "If you build a player friendly video poker game, people will come. They will most definately come". I wonder how the other casinos are doing these days?
Just because an authority makes a bold statement, doesn't mean that it's true. Only time will tell!

So the bottom line is
the casinos lose a TOTAL of 300 advantage customers who are hurting
their bottom line and gain 3,000 clueless customers EVERY MONTH who
are going to enhance their bottom line. If you were running a
business which customer group would you target your marketing efforts
towards? As Steve says, they know exactly what they are doing...
Tooz

4-2's, I get exactly where you're coming from. And indeed, there's
little doubt in my mind that that's exactly where the collective head
of Coast Casinos is.

But I sense just a bit that you find the end result a foregone
conclusion. If I'm mistaken, please excuse me. I seem to have gotten
on my high horse here (and over on vp-mail). That's because I worry
that as a group we feel rather impotent in this situation.

Frankly, prospects for steering the momentum of machine cuts back are
likely nominal. But my take on the situation is that if there's
something that I can do that even remotely might positively affect the
situation and only takes 15 minutes, I'm certainly going to give it a
shot. In this case, I just don't see a downside for doing so. And I
always get a bit of a charge of having taken some action on a matter
than I'm unhappy with.

OK, off the soap box. But if someone is interested in jotting just a
quick note off on the subject, the contact information follows. Even
if it isn't published, a steady stream of letters and emails will at
least keep LVRJ focussed on the situation.

Send your replies and letters to:
letters@r...

or

Letters To the Editor
P.O. Box 70
Las Vegas, NV 89125

- Harry

By the way, I'll give you guys a rest from my diatribe very shortly.
As I've noted, I'm off to LV first thing in the morning -- desperate
to make another killing! I'll be back Apr. 6. And I gotta tell you,
this group has been a real asset. If I've shouldered an attitude from
time to time in the past, I humbly ask you to be patient. I get over
myself eventually :).

- H.

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···

Harry Porter <harry.porter@verizon.net> wrote:fourtooz wrote:

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Les Wrote:

"A clear example is, if all the votes in the Florida 2000 election were correctly tabulated, we would probably be living an a different "Geopolitical" world."

Perhaps you missed ALL of the final re-count reports that CLEARLY show Bush won. Even the most liberal of the standards show that Bush is the clear winner.

I know this isn't a political board, and I'll do my best to keep my own politics to myself, but please, if you're going to use the 2000 election as an example of something clear, you'd better get your chads straight.

77,
scottro

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Les Silber
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 4:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Gold Coast & all Coasts

  You are correct Harry. A clear example is, if all the votes in the Florida 2000 election were correctly tabulated, we would probably be living an a different "Geopolitical" world. When the bean counters go over their quarterly earnings at the Coast Properties, they would love to have that additional 1/2 of 1/2 of 1/2 of 1% back in their pockets from the gaming that had lost.
  So one voice can make a difference. Especially as the economy is not projected to rebound in the near future. The airlines are projecting a $10 billion loss for 2003, hotel census is down, cruise lines are reducing rates deeply and gamblers are not gambling as much. Besides, the indian casinos have to eat into Vegas profits in some form.
  To paraphrase "Field of Dreams', "If you build a player friendly video poker game, people will come. They will most definately come". I wonder how the other casinos are doing these days?
  Just because an authority makes a bold statement, doesn't mean that it's true. Only time will tell!
  Harry Porter <harry.porter@verizon.net> wrote:fourtooz wrote:
  > So the bottom line is
  > the casinos lose a TOTAL of 300 advantage customers who are hurting
  > their bottom line and gain 3,000 clueless customers EVERY MONTH who
  > are going to enhance their bottom line. If you were running a
  > business which customer group would you target your marketing efforts
  > towards? As Steve says, they know exactly what they are doing...
  > Tooz

  4-2's, I get exactly where you're coming from. And indeed, there's
  little doubt in my mind that that's exactly where the collective head
  of Coast Casinos is.

  But I sense just a bit that you find the end result a foregone
  conclusion. If I'm mistaken, please excuse me. I seem to have gotten
  on my high horse here (and over on vp-mail). That's because I worry
  that as a group we feel rather impotent in this situation.

  Frankly, prospects for steering the momentum of machine cuts back are
  likely nominal. But my take on the situation is that if there's
  something that I can do that even remotely might positively affect the
  situation and only takes 15 minutes, I'm certainly going to give it a
  shot. In this case, I just don't see a downside for doing so. And I
  always get a bit of a charge of having taken some action on a matter
  than I'm unhappy with.

  OK, off the soap box. But if someone is interested in jotting just a
  quick note off on the subject, the contact information follows. Even
  if it isn't published, a steady stream of letters and emails will at
  least keep LVRJ focussed on the situation.

  > Send your replies and letters to:
  > letters@r...
  >
  > or
  >
  > Letters To the Editor
  > P.O. Box 70
  > Las Vegas, NV 89125

  - Harry

  By the way, I'll give you guys a rest from my diatribe very shortly.
  As I've noted, I'm off to LV first thing in the morning -- desperate
  to make another killing! I'll be back Apr. 6. And I gotta tell you,
  this group has been a real asset. If I've shouldered an attitude from
  time to time in the past, I humbly ask you to be patient. I get over
  myself eventually :).

  - H.

  Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You are correct Harry. A clear example is, if all the votes in the Florida 2000 election were correctly tabulated, we would probably be living an a different "Geopolitical" world.

  -> According to the Supreme Court they were counted correctly !

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Les Silber
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 4:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Gold Coast & all Coasts

I guess I'm not too happy with the way the arrived at
their findings.

···

--- tomflush <tomflush@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Les Silber
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 4:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Gold Coast & all Coasts

  You are correct Harry. A clear example is, if all
the votes in the Florida 2000 election were
correctly tabulated, we would probably be living an
a different "Geopolitical" world.

  -> According to the Supreme Court they were
counted correctly !

[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]

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I'm a visitor and in 2002 myself and two family members had $129,690 coin in
at Coast Properties (Suncoast, Gold Coast, Orleans & Barbary Coast). That
play resulted in a loss of $3003. I only play FPVP machines but my two
other family members play other machines including slots. I play craps
occasionally and in 2002 I left $935 at the Coast's dice tables. We lost
$651 at Coast's Sports Books. The total loss for my family and gain for
Coasts amounted to $4,589.
In 2002 we had $81,610 coin in at the Palms. That play resulted in a $510
loss. We also had enough play at Terribles, Casino Royale, Main Street
Station, Plaza, 4-Queens, El Cortez & the Fremont to receive free room
offers from marketing. In addition, in 2002, we stayed at the RIO four
comped nights based on Harrahs Shreveport play.

When Suncoast axed FPDW, I changed my reservation to Gold Coast in February
2003. We had reservations for two rooms at the Gold Coast , five nights
this May. We are also staying at the Palms four nights on that trip. Due
to the changes at Gold Coast, I changed the Palms reservation to six nights
and will use my points to stay at Terribles (which I need to get rid of
since the good games are history) for three nights.

While it's true that the Coasts always comped my rooms upfront and provided
.25% cashback, they are no longer competitive with other venues for my
gaming budget. My weekend rooms have been comped at the Palms upfront and I
have no doubt that the rest of the trip will be picked by our host, based on
our anticipated play. I have only stayed at the Palms one night before, but
should be established after this trip. We will also take the opportunity
(while staying at Terribles) to play at other venues known for mailing out
marketing room offers for a small amount of play.

The Coasts will no longer have a shot at my family's bankroll, from which
they were able to extract over $4,500 last year. The Palms is a much nicer
hotel and has an excellent inventory of full pay and 100%+ return games and
you get points on your slot card at the Sports Book. I would prefer .25%
cash back but the points will not be wasted as we like the restaurants/clubs
and plan on enjoying the spa. I'm not under any delusion that the Coasts
will significantly miss my meager play. But on the other hand, "me thinks"
many other enlightened players with similar results will take their play
elsewhere. As long as other venues welcome our play while providing a good
vp inventory, fair comps and free rooms in return for our action, there's no
reason to give Michael Gaughn a shot at my bankroll.

                                      Rasti$Rulz
                             A former Coasts Player
                 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp-heaven

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Kent" <kent@spocom.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 10:57 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Gold Coast & all Coasts

>From: "fourtooz" <deuceswild4@juno.com>
>Steve, you hit the nail right on the head. Excellant post...
Tooz

Thanks Tooz!

Harry Porter and Skip Hughes have the right idea - get the word out that

the

Coasts have "tightened" all their machines, reducing pay on some video

poker

by 1%.

I really don't think the advantage players who complain will have much
effect. As someone said earlier, the Coasts know exactly what they are
doing - targeting 50 to 100 specific players, and not worrying much about

a

little collateral damage.

Meanwhile, If I run into Michael at the Olympic Garden I will be sure to
discuss this with him - over a lap dance, of course!

I disagree and so does the management at the Stations, Fiestas and Palms.
There are many other venues that have at least some banks of FPDW (Plaza,
MSS, Tuscany, Cannery, Sams, AC). If one buys your theory, then the
management at these venues are dumb and Coast management is brilliant. I
think time will prove just the opposite. The percentage of players who play
100%+ ER vp perfectly and NEVER lose a dime on other gaming opportunities is
so tiny, that they are statistically insignificant. A perfect player can
only make around $7 bucks an hour. The vast majority of advantage players
are contributing to the profit of the casinos. If enough of these players
take their play AND their money to other venues like the Palms and Stations,
the Coast will lose more money than they did when they had hundreds of FPDW
machines.
                                   Rasti$Rulz
                 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp-heaven

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@verizon.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 7:08 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Gold Coast & all Coasts

fourtooz wrote:
> So the bottom line is
> the casinos lose a TOTAL of 300 advantage customers who are hurting
> their bottom line and gain 3,000 clueless customers EVERY MONTH who
> are going to enhance their bottom line. If you were running a
> business which customer group would you target your marketing efforts
> towards? As Steve says, they know exactly what they are doing...
> Tooz

This is EXACTLY where this thread should end. The above quote says it all. There are plenty of places to play FP VP in LV. Don't play somewhere if you don't like their policies. There's too much energy being spent "running into a brick wall".

Hey folks... Walk around the brick wall, it's easier!

ADR

···

At 12:06 PM 3/28/03, you wrote:

If enough of these players
take their play AND their money to other venues like the Palms and Stations,
the Coast will lose more money than they did when they had hundreds of FPDW
machines.

The management of the Station casinos does not disagee with Harry
Porter. They had pulled all their FPDW and only started putting them
back because the Coasts were killing their properties. We have to hope
that they don't pull them again now that they are gone from the Coast properties.

···

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