vpFREE2 Forums

Getting No-Mail: All Via Software

All this talk about getting No-Mail from Atlantis and Peppermill, maybe even Silver Legacy...it's really quite easy to see...

Look at the machine when you sit down to play and put your card in...that "Card Reader" portion of it...with the big beautiful 16-bit color display...it's also "smart"...as in, it can track your play down to the percentage you're playing at, and report it LIVE TIME to the casino marketing people...
HOWEVER, this wasn't just by CHANCE that they put this in...it was a huge cost to the casino to implement that type of hardware/software...hence them being quick to cut you off if you're not consistently losing to them (ie: playing a game at 99% payoff or better)

I've recently spoken to a lot of "higher ups" at different Casinos in the Reno area (I'm an IT consultant) and they've stated their opinion on going with this type of system...
Another thing is....I'd say 99% of players LIKE that type of system (full color, shows you all of your comps, etc) rather than the old type of dot matrix 2-line display (ie: Bally system)

You didn't say what their opinions are.

···

________________________________
From: moneyplays_tothelimit <moneyplays_tothelimit@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 11:37 AM
Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Getting No-Mail: All Via Software

All this talk about getting No-Mail from Atlantis and Peppermill, maybe even Silver Legacy...it's really quite easy to see...

Look at the machine when you sit down to play and put your card in...that "Card Reader" portion of it...with the big beautiful 16-bit color display...it's also "smart"...as in, it can track your play down to the percentage you're playing at, and report it LIVE TIME to the casino marketing people...
HOWEVER, this wasn't just by CHANCE that they put this in...it was a huge cost to the casino to implement that type of hardware/software...hence them being quick to cut you off if you're not consistently losing to them (ie: playing a game at 99% payoff or better)

I've recently spoken to a lot of "higher ups" at different Casinos in the Reno area (I'm an IT consultant) and they've stated their opinion on going with this type of system...
Another thing is....I'd say 99% of players LIKE that type of system (full color, shows you all of your comps, etc) rather than the old type of dot matrix 2-line display (ie: Bally system)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Like I said, don't know; but since HAL could read lips and you know HAL then maybe you could enlighten?

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, hedonist144 <hedonist144@...> wrote:

You didn't say what their opinions are.

________________________________
From: moneyplays_tothelimit <moneyplays_tothelimit@...>
To: vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 11:37 AM
Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Getting No-Mail: All Via Software

Â
All this talk about getting No-Mail from Atlantis and Peppermill, maybe even Silver Legacy...it's really quite easy to see...

Look at the machine when you sit down to play and put your card in...that "Card Reader" portion of it...with the big beautiful 16-bit color display...it's also "smart"...as in, it can track your play down to the percentage you're playing at, and report it LIVE TIME to the casino marketing people...
HOWEVER, this wasn't just by CHANCE that they put this in...it was a huge cost to the casino to implement that type of hardware/software...hence them being quick to cut you off if you're not consistently losing to them (ie: playing a game at 99% payoff or better)

I've recently spoken to a lot of "higher ups" at different Casinos in the Reno area (I'm an IT consultant) and they've stated their opinion on going with this type of system...
Another thing is....I'd say 99% of players LIKE that type of system (full color, shows you all of your comps, etc) rather than the old type of dot matrix 2-line display (ie: Bally system)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Keep playing video poker and enjoy yourself, thats all there is to it.

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@...> wrote:

Like I said, don't know; but since HAL could read lips and you know HAL then maybe you could enlighten?

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, hedonist144 <hedonist144@> wrote:
>
> You didn't say what their opinions are.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: moneyplays_tothelimit <moneyplays_tothelimit@>
> To: vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 11:37 AM
> Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Getting No-Mail: All Via Software
>
>
> Â
> All this talk about getting No-Mail from Atlantis and Peppermill, maybe even Silver Legacy...it's really quite easy to see...
>
> Look at the machine when you sit down to play and put your card in...that "Card Reader" portion of it...with the big beautiful 16-bit color display...it's also "smart"...as in, it can track your play down to the percentage you're playing at, and report it LIVE TIME to the casino marketing people...
> HOWEVER, this wasn't just by CHANCE that they put this in...it was a huge cost to the casino to implement that type of hardware/software...hence them being quick to cut you off if you're not consistently losing to them (ie: playing a game at 99% payoff or better)
>
> I've recently spoken to a lot of "higher ups" at different Casinos in the Reno area (I'm an IT consultant) and they've stated their opinion on going with this type of system...
> Another thing is....I'd say 99% of players LIKE that type of system (full color, shows you all of your comps, etc) rather than the old type of dot matrix 2-line display (ie: Bally system)
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Dave, I think your major problem was posting your results here on the vpfree_reno blog. Many casino's have spy's/lurkers that act on anything that is written about their casino, and they can figure out who you are based on your posts that I read !
...Best...and a fellow member of the "drop dead - your pals Atlantis " club: Tom

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" <haaljo@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 5:09 PM
Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: Getting No-Mail: All Via Software

Like I said, don't know; but since HAL could read lips and you know HAL then maybe you could enlighten?

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, hedonist144 <hedonist144@...> wrote:

You didn't say what their opinions are.

As long as I'm NOT hurting players but if this is unhelpful (including to me) will for sure be ambiguous. One closing unambiguous comment about Atlantis and the failure of our country's management to look at the long term:

Got TWO $8K royals at a certain casino in/near Reno. Went to the Atlantis and lost half of it mostly on the FPSDB Multi-strike super times pay machine. About 4 years ago.

So Atlantis lurker plese look at our history for more than a year :slight_smile: Then wait until your boss get's shit canned (again) and then point out to the new boss this couple from New England that doesn't come anymore; checked them out and they lost $8K on a trip about 4 years ago.

We are cheap dates. if they want there money from last 18 months they got to give us a reason to come back -hint :slight_smile:
(End of non-ambiguous comments)

Post Script
("series of notes appended to a completed article or book.")

We have been having great trips the last 18 months. Trying to go west every month or so for a week.
Went from losing tens of thousand/year for a couple of years to winning it all back and then some. Reasons:
1)The decimation of theoretically advantage paytables took awhile to adjust to as best as a gambler can.
2) Luck returning (may the gambling gods continue to shine on us).
3) Not doing (as many) stupid things.

Will be happy to get back to win "penny a hand days"
(ala Elliot Shapiro)
Break a leg

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@...> wrote:

Dave, I think your major problem was posting your results here on the
vpfree_reno blog. Many casino's have spy's/lurkers that act on anything
that is written about their casino, and they can figure out who you are
based on your posts that I read !
...Best...and a fellow member of the "drop dead - your pals Atlantis " club:
Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <haaljo@...>
To: <vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 5:09 PM
Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: Getting No-Mail: All Via Software

Like I said, don't know; but since HAL could read lips and you know HAL then
maybe you could enlighten?

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, hedonist144 <hedonist144@> wrote:
>
> You didn't say what their opinions are.
>
>
>

I think the discussion of HAL-like intelligent gaming equipment at Atlantis, as well as suggestions that posting here drew unwanted attention, is way off the mark.

The truth at Atlantis is simply that they don't expect players to walk with significant winnings, and to do so is an invitation to be no-mailed.

In my case, they let me come back after my first visit, in which I hit the Jacks progressive for $6K and gave back $2K during my trip. When I hit again for just over $4K on my second trip, and despite aggressive play, gave back just $1K (netting $7K from the two visits), my host alerted me to the fact that my mail was discontinued.

When I consider that experience against that of this last weekend in Tunica (where I lost $5800 against $110K of play -- mostly 9/6 JB, in miserable play ... $4500 loss after netting FP), I consider the no-mail experience simply laughable.

The other thing that's laughable, is that an aggressive player at Atlantis has, at best, a break-even expectation -- the offers just aren't that juicy. I can't fathom why they would take aggressive adverse action against someone who walks with a bit of cash when it's quite possible the player is a profitable prospect and just a little lucky; and when there's significant risk that other players will be discouraged from play once the news starts to leak out that "Atlantis doesn't like winners".

btw, I'm not discounting the fact that once my winnings drew attention, the fact that I restricted play to thin-margin games was a factor. I'm just saying that there wasn't any rocket science involved that flagged my play in advance of walking with a few thousand.

Wiz - Powerful comments. In particular, I note your bullet:
"...when there's significant risk that other players
will be discouraged from play once the news starts to leak out that "Atlantis doesn't like winners...".

I agree and also maybe "news starting to leak out" could also help astute Atlantis Hosts other Staff educate "Casino Seniors."

If I was a host I'd put this in my pocket and at the right time bring it up at staff meeting on how to get "our money back."
Right times include such as a change of senior mgmt and your new "boss is NOT like your old boss." That may take a long time or happen tomorrow. Maybe a host will get promoted into senior management.

Like I said before, Atlantis must be doing something right from the crowds we always saw when visiting and our friends comments.

Maybe there was a relatively recent change in Atlantis management because I think this started about 2 years ago and that's when we stopped playing the bartop progressive. I think that's about when I stopped serious drinking and gambling at same time. :slight_smile:

Still would like to hear from moneytalk what HAL told him about casino execs talk.
Atlantis wiki is interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis_Casino_Resort
Stock info:
Monarch Casino & Resort, Inc. -NASDAQ (Just holding it's own since the 2007 bankster fiasco.
They bought a joint in Colorado few years ago. That's their only other casino and have not had others for decades. That must make it interesting in Monarch's mahogany walled offices.

Over the long term Darwin's theory holds and running a casino is no place to discard the math (including the bell curve). Casino mgmt should not be praying to the gambling Gods.

This isn't a larry niven book with Teela Brown:
"...Teela Brown, a ditzy dame with a charmed life, whose never known pain or loss...."
Very good post. I liked the thin margin game quote. Might give you solace to know that we have for many years be mixing in a few percent slot machine action when we gamble in order to be reduce no-mail concerns. That didn't work to well for us at Atlantis:-)

The good news is old las vegas hilton no-mailed us last year and just sent $200/month. And for heaven's sake, just got an offer for free room at Green Valley after no-mail'd beginning of this year. Want us back!

It's a start. One of my friends got no-mail'd last year from Atlantis and started to get (very limited) room offers! (My arms are starting to itch thinking about multistrike super time pay and my bankroll has been replenished. Lighting the altar incense right now.
Dave in Boston

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "vp_wiz" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

I think the discussion of HAL-like intelligent gaming equipment at Atlantis, as well as suggestions that posting here drew unwanted attention, is way off the mark.

The truth at Atlantis is simply that they don't expect players to walk with significant winnings, and to do so is an invitation to be no-mailed.

In my case, they let me come back after my first visit, in which I hit the Jacks progressive for $6K and gave back $2K during my trip. When I hit again for just over $4K on my second trip, and despite aggressive play, gave back just $1K (netting $7K from the two visits), my host alerted me to the fact that my mail was discontinued.

When I consider that experience against that of this last weekend in Tunica (where I lost $5800 against $110K of play -- mostly 9/6 JB, in miserable play ... $4500 loss after netting FP), I consider the no-mail experience simply laughable.

The other thing that's laughable, is that an aggressive player at Atlantis has, at best, a break-even expectation -- the offers just aren't that juicy. I can't fathom why they would take aggressive adverse action against someone who walks with a bit of cash when it's quite possible the player is a profitable prospect and just a little lucky; and when there's significant risk that other players will be discouraged from play once the news starts to leak out that "Atlantis doesn't like winners".

btw, I'm not discounting the fact that once my winnings drew attention, the fact that I restricted play to thin-margin games was a factor. I'm just saying that there wasn't any rocket science involved that flagged my play in advance of walking with a few thousand.

You did hear from me...just keep playing and having fun!

Casino's either want you to be good...or lucky...if you're BOTH, it's a deadly combo (at Atlantis and Peppermill; that is)
Which one do you choose?

···

Still would like to hear from moneytalk what HAL told him about casino execs talk.

Uh...if you think you were cut off because of "Atlantis Lurkers" on this emai list, I think highly unlikely.

All of the casino's marketing groups run an analysis on their "interesting" players based upon the coin-in, theoretical, and what not. And then decide whether they want your biz or not.

You're giving this group too much credit.

________________________________
From: Dave <haaljo@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 7:59 PM
Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: Getting No-Mail: All Via Software

As long as I'm NOT hurting players but if this is unhelpful (including to me) will for sure be ambiguous. One closing unambiguous comment about Atlantis and the failure of our country's management to look at the long term:

Got TWO $8K royals at a certain casino in/near Reno. Went to the Atlantis and lost half of it mostly on the FPSDB Multi-strike super times pay machine. About 4 years ago.

So Atlantis lurker plese look at our history for more than a year :slight_smile: Then wait until your boss get's shit canned (again) and then point out to the new boss this couple from New England that doesn't come anymore; checked them out and they lost $8K on a trip about 4 years ago.

We are cheap dates. if they want there money from last 18 months they got to give us a reason to come back -hint :slight_smile:
(End of non-ambiguous comments)

Post Script
("series of notes appended to a completed article or book.")

We have been having great trips the last 18 months. Trying to go west every month or so for a week.
Went from losing tens of thousand/year for a couple of years to winning it all back and then some. Reasons:
1)The decimation of theoretically advantage paytables took awhile to adjust to as best as a gambler can.
2) Luck returning (may the gambling gods continue to shine on us).
3) Not doing (as many) stupid things.

Will be happy to get back to win "penny a hand days"
(ala Elliot Shapiro)
Break a leg

Dave, I think your major problem was posting your results here on the
vpfree_reno blog. Many casino's have spy's/lurkers that act on anything
that is written about their casino, and they can figure out who you are
based on your posts that I read !
...Best...and a fellow member of the "drop dead - your pals Atlantis " club:
Tom

From: "Dave" <haaljo@...>
To: <vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 5:09 PM
Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: Getting No-Mail: All Via Software

Like I said, don't know; but since HAL could read lips and you know HAL then
maybe you could enlighten?

>
> You didn't say what their opinions are.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@...> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, hedonist144 <hedonist144@> wrote:

"THEY" don't persay...but the software does...and it alerts staff to "threats" (intelligent players who get lucky)
The trick is to find a machine with an unusually high theo that is also a high return machine...

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, Mike Chow <mgchow@...> wrote:

Uh...if you think you were cut off because of "Atlantis Lurkers" on this emai list, I think highly unlikely.

All of the casino's marketing groups run an analysis on their "interesting" players based upon the coin-in, theoretical, and what not. Â And then decide whether they want your biz or not.

You're giving this group too much credit.

>________________________________
> From: Dave <haaljo@...>
>To: vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 7:59 PM
>Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: Getting No-Mail: All Via Software
>
>

>As long as I'm NOT hurting players but if this is unhelpful (including to me) will for sure be ambiguous. One closing unambiguous comment about Atlantis and the failure of our country's management to look at the long term:
>
>Got TWO $8K royals at a certain casino in/near Reno. Went to the Atlantis and lost half of it mostly on the FPSDB Multi-strike super times pay machine. About 4 years ago.
>
>So Atlantis lurker plese look at our history for more than a year :slight_smile: Then wait until your boss get's shit canned (again) and then point out to the new boss this couple from New England that doesn't come anymore; checked them out and they lost $8K on a trip about 4 years ago.
>
>We are cheap dates. if they want there money from last 18 months they got to give us a reason to come back -hint :slight_smile:
>(End of non-ambiguous comments)
>
>Post Script
>("series of notes appended to a completed article or book.")
>
>We have been having great trips the last 18 months. Trying to go west every month or so for a week.
>Went from losing tens of thousand/year for a couple of years to winning it all back and then some. Reasons:
>1)The decimation of theoretically advantage paytables took awhile to adjust to as best as a gambler can.
>2) Luck returning (may the gambling gods continue to shine on us).
>3) Not doing (as many) stupid things.
>
>Will be happy to get back to win "penny a hand days"
>(ala Elliot Shapiro)
>Break a leg
>
>--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@> wrote:
>>
>> Dave, I think your major problem was posting your results here on the
>> vpfree_reno blog. Many casino's have spy's/lurkers that act on anything
>> that is written about their casino, and they can figure out who you are
>> based on your posts that I read !
>> ...Best...and a fellow member of the "drop dead - your pals Atlantis " club:
>> Tom
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dave" <haaljo@>
>> To: <vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 5:09 PM
>> Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: Getting No-Mail: All Via Software
>>
>>
>> Like I said, don't know; but since HAL could read lips and you know HAL then
>> maybe you could enlighten?
>>
>> --- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, hedonist144 <hedonist144@> wrote:
>> >
>> > You didn't say what their opinions are.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Distant meories of the old Vegas Hilton and the 9/6 Jacks theo being reduced by a factor of 10 and none of the regulars knew. The recently degraded FP two pair joker stayed at ~3%.
That's when columbia took over ~10 years ago. New mgmt was from Atlantic City.

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "moneyplays_tothelimit" <moneyplays_tothelimit@...> wrote:

"THEY" don't persay...but the software does...and it alerts staff to "threats" (intelligent players who get lucky)
The trick is to find a machine with an unusually high theo that is also a high return machine...

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, Mike Chow <mgchow@> wrote:
>
> Uh...if you think you were cut off because of "Atlantis Lurkers" on this emai list, I think highly unlikely.
>
> All of the casino's marketing groups run an analysis on their "interesting" players based upon the coin-in, theoretical, and what not. Â And then decide whether they want your biz or not.
>
> You're giving this group too much credit.
>
>
>
>
>
> >________________________________
> > From: Dave <haaljo@>
> >To: vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com
> >Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 7:59 PM
> >Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: Getting No-Mail: All Via Software
> >
> >
> >Â
> >As long as I'm NOT hurting players but if this is unhelpful (including to me) will for sure be ambiguous. One closing unambiguous comment about Atlantis and the failure of our country's management to look at the long term:
> >
> >Got TWO $8K royals at a certain casino in/near Reno. Went to the Atlantis and lost half of it mostly on the FPSDB Multi-strike super times pay machine. About 4 years ago.
> >
> >So Atlantis lurker plese look at our history for more than a year :slight_smile: Then wait until your boss get's shit canned (again) and then point out to the new boss this couple from New England that doesn't come anymore; checked them out and they lost $8K on a trip about 4 years ago.
> >
> >We are cheap dates. if they want there money from last 18 months they got to give us a reason to come back -hint :slight_smile:
> >(End of non-ambiguous comments)
> >
> >Post Script
> >("series of notes appended to a completed article or book.")
> >
> >We have been having great trips the last 18 months. Trying to go west every month or so for a week.
> >Went from losing tens of thousand/year for a couple of years to winning it all back and then some. Reasons:
> >1)The decimation of theoretically advantage paytables took awhile to adjust to as best as a gambler can.
> >2) Luck returning (may the gambling gods continue to shine on us).
> >3) Not doing (as many) stupid things.
> >
> >Will be happy to get back to win "penny a hand days"
> >(ala Elliot Shapiro)
> >Break a leg
> >
> >--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dave, I think your major problem was posting your results here on the
> >> vpfree_reno blog. Many casino's have spy's/lurkers that act on anything
> >> that is written about their casino, and they can figure out who you are
> >> based on your posts that I read !
> >> ...Best...and a fellow member of the "drop dead - your pals Atlantis " club:
> >> Tom
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Dave" <haaljo@>
> >> To: <vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 5:09 PM
> >> Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: Getting No-Mail: All Via Software
> >>
> >>
> >> Like I said, don't know; but since HAL could read lips and you know HAL then
> >> maybe you could enlighten?
> >>
> >> --- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, hedonist144 <hedonist144@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > You didn't say what their opinions are.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

We were cut off by the Atlantis over two years ago. Our host told us that she thought the policy didn't make much sense. After not hearing anything since being cutoff, I called our former host and asked if she could comp us a room for two nights. She was happy to and we got a jacuzzi suite for our stay. If you've been cutoff it might be worth a call to your former host.

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@...> wrote:

Distant meories of the old Vegas Hilton and the 9/6 Jacks theo being reduced by a factor of 10 and none of the regulars knew. The recently degraded FP two pair joker stayed at ~3%.
That's when columbia took over ~10 years ago. New mgmt was from Atlantic City.
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "moneyplays_tothelimit" <moneyplays_tothelimit@> wrote:
>
> "THEY" don't persay...but the software does...and it alerts staff to "threats" (intelligent players who get lucky)
> The trick is to find a machine with an unusually high theo that is also a high return machine...
>
> --- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, Mike Chow <mgchow@> wrote:
> >
> > Uh...if you think you were cut off because of "Atlantis Lurkers" on this emai list, I think highly unlikely.
> >
> > All of the casino's marketing groups run an analysis on their "interesting" players based upon the coin-in, theoretical, and what not. Â And then decide whether they want your biz or not.
> >
> > You're giving this group too much credit.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >________________________________
> > > From: Dave <haaljo@>
> > >To: vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com
> > >Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 7:59 PM
> > >Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: Getting No-Mail: All Via Software
> > >
> > >
> > >Â
> > >As long as I'm NOT hurting players but if this is unhelpful (including to me) will for sure be ambiguous. One closing unambiguous comment about Atlantis and the failure of our country's management to look at the long term:
> > >
> > >Got TWO $8K royals at a certain casino in/near Reno. Went to the Atlantis and lost half of it mostly on the FPSDB Multi-strike super times pay machine. About 4 years ago.
> > >
> > >So Atlantis lurker plese look at our history for more than a year :slight_smile: Then wait until your boss get's shit canned (again) and then point out to the new boss this couple from New England that doesn't come anymore; checked them out and they lost $8K on a trip about 4 years ago.
> > >
> > >We are cheap dates. if they want there money from last 18 months they got to give us a reason to come back -hint :slight_smile:
> > >(End of non-ambiguous comments)
> > >
> > >Post Script
> > >("series of notes appended to a completed article or book.")
> > >
> > >We have been having great trips the last 18 months. Trying to go west every month or so for a week.
> > >Went from losing tens of thousand/year for a couple of years to winning it all back and then some. Reasons:
> > >1)The decimation of theoretically advantage paytables took awhile to adjust to as best as a gambler can.
> > >2) Luck returning (may the gambling gods continue to shine on us).
> > >3) Not doing (as many) stupid things.
> > >
> > >Will be happy to get back to win "penny a hand days"
> > >(ala Elliot Shapiro)
> > >Break a leg
> > >
> > >--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Dave, I think your major problem was posting your results here on the
> > >> vpfree_reno blog. Many casino's have spy's/lurkers that act on anything
> > >> that is written about their casino, and they can figure out who you are
> > >> based on your posts that I read !
> > >> ...Best...and a fellow member of the "drop dead - your pals Atlantis " club:
> > >> Tom
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Dave" <haaljo@>
> > >> To: <vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com>
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 5:09 PM
> > >> Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: Getting No-Mail: All Via Software
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Like I said, don't know; but since HAL could read lips and you know HAL then
> > >> maybe you could enlighten?
> > >>
> > >> --- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, hedonist144 <hedonist144@> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > You didn't say what their opinions are.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

I'm not sure about recent comments here - so here is another take from a long time Atlantis 86'd player.
a. I know as a fact that Atlantis has a lurker on this board ( was told direct from an Atlantis host ).
b. Their algo for 86 ing players is based on quite a few things, and while it does over time ID players, folks that write here "eh I beat them, and I took advantage of this offer , here is how I did it , etc", they can and will do research immediately on that player - so you get shit canned much sooner.
c. Somebody implied that we should mention Harry's arguments to a host. Sorry to say but , I and many other members have already done that years ago to no avail. The hosts cant fight for you or else they get fired - its the slot directors and upper casino managements way or the highway. They want players that are dumb, unlucky , and clueless - Advantage players go home. Its very crowded there because local ploppies that don't know how to play, take home in bliss 97Cents on the dollar playing 9/5 super double bonus, and that's better for them then the 95C they take home playing 9/5 double double at a competitors casino. Plain and simple, Advantage Players can beat their business plan, so they cater to dummies.
d. This issue has been going on for a quite a while. You really need to research the vpfree archives going back 3 or 4 years so you can see the full picture.
e. I love the Atlantis still ( great inventory, great hosts, food, super hotel, but suck-ass management ) , and can still possibly get a free room at check out , by using my trip points, and avoid playing a penny at the locals carousel which is tracked by their system to id potential advantage players.
f. For you Atlantis-lurkers reading this - You should invite all of us back and be nice. I personally dont care if you give me a free room or free play up front, I would be happy earning points and using those points at the end of my trip to pay for whatever. Atlantis reputation among serious but good players is already tarnished , and your scope is forever limited to locals and conventioneers because of this.

best Tom

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Chow" <mgchow@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: Getting No-Mail: All Via Software

Uh...if you think you were cut off because of "Atlantis Lurkers" on this emai list, I think highly unlikely.

All of the casino's marketing groups run an analysis on their "interesting" players based upon the coin-in, theoretical, and what not. And then decide whether they want your biz or not.

You're giving this group too much credit.

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links

Yeah…and the problem Is???
If the lurkers are on this forum, working for Atlantis or peppermill…Im sorry for yall…youre waaay getting screwed on wages.
I sincerely doubt even the youngest/smartest looking one (Ryan Kass) would be able to really figure out analytics…
There's contracted rats…believe me, I'm one of them…free play for "outing" info

your scope is forever limited to locals

···

and conventioneers because of this.

best Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chow" <mgchow@...>
To: <vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: Getting No-Mail: All Via Software

Uh...if you think you were cut off because of "Atlantis Lurkers" on this
emai list, I think highly unlikely.

All of the casino's marketing groups run an analysis on their "interesting"
players based upon the coin-in, theoretical, and what not. And then decide
whether they want your biz or not.

You're giving this group too much credit.

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links

Tom, I was told by my host that we would could still play and get points but would not get any offers. Sounds like u were more than no-mail'd. Almost like you were no trespass'd?

"...I would be happy earning points and using those points at the end
of my trip to pay for whatever..."

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@...> wrote:

I'm not sure about recent comments here - so here is another take from a
long time Atlantis 86'd player.
a. I know as a fact that Atlantis has a lurker on this board ( was told
direct from an Atlantis host ).
b. Their algo for 86 ing players is based on quite a few things, and while
it does over time ID players, folks that write here "eh I beat them, and I
took advantage of this offer , here is how I did it , etc", they can and
will do research immediately on that player - so you get shit canned much
sooner.
c. Somebody implied that we should mention Harry's arguments to a host.
Sorry to say but , I and many other members have already done that years ago
to no avail. The hosts cant fight for you or else they get fired - its the
slot directors and upper casino managements way or the highway. They want
players that are dumb, unlucky , and clueless - Advantage players go home.
Its very crowded there because local ploppies that don't know how to play,
take home in bliss 97Cents on the dollar playing 9/5 super double bonus, and
that's better for them then the 95C they take home playing 9/5 double double
at a competitors casino. Plain and simple, Advantage Players can beat their
business plan, so they cater to dummies.
d. This issue has been going on for a quite a while. You really need to
research the vpfree archives going back 3 or 4 years so you can see the
full picture.
e. I love the Atlantis still ( great inventory, great hosts, food, super
hotel, but suck-ass management ) , and can still possibly get a free room at
check out , by using my trip points, and avoid playing a penny at the locals
carousel which is tracked by their system to id potential advantage players.
f. For you Atlantis-lurkers reading this - You should invite all of us back
and be nice. I personally dont care if you give me a free room or free play
up front, I would be happy earning points and using those points at the end
of my trip to pay for whatever. Atlantis reputation among serious but good
players is already tarnished , and your scope is forever limited to locals
and conventioneers because of this.

best Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chow" <mgchow@...>
To: <vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: Getting No-Mail: All Via Software

Uh...if you think you were cut off because of "Atlantis Lurkers" on this
emai list, I think highly unlikely.

All of the casino's marketing groups run an analysis on their "interesting"
players based upon the coin-in, theoretical, and what not. And then decide
whether they want your biz or not.

You're giving this group too much credit.

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links

If casinos were analyzing the play of the hands, they would
not bother to wait for you to win. If you are playing
nearly perfect on a game with little or no house edge,
AND they are using this kind of software, they would be
morons to ever send you any mail whatsoever. On the
other hand, most casino execs are morons, so I guess
they could be using that software and still let you
play until you win.

It is FAR more likely that they are NOT analyzing the
play of the hands and are just looking at wins and losses.

I still play there and I know my error rate is VERY low.
And though I had a good run at one point, my luck has
been pretty poor. If they are analyzing play as has
been suggested, they must know I have an edge. But I
am still getting mail.

No-mailing someone for winning is just plain stupid.

Bad player + good luck = win.
Good player + bad luck = lose.

After a few hundred thousand hands, this is no
longer true, but they surely are not waiting
that long to decide.

The error of allowing a skilled player to stay
is FAR less important than the error of
alienating a donator. Such methods probably
target 2 or 3 donators for every skilled
player. This is because the vast majority
of players are unskilled and it really doesn't
take much luck for a few bad players to score
5 or 10K if they play $ or higher.

If these dorks had a clue, they could easily sort out
skilled from unskilled players. But that would
require these wastes of skin to actually know the
games and do a bit of research and work.

The cold hard truth here is that a properly
managed casino would quickly and accurately find
and no-mail most if not all skilled players
and would never accidentally do that to a
donator. But how many casinos do this.
Probably NONE. Some do manage to keep out
all the pros, but they do it by offering
awful games that many players eventually
learn to avoid. Such tactics chase away
sharks AND the fish. And that is why I have
such a low opinion of casino management when
it comes to these issues.

QZ

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "moneyplays_tothelimit" <moneyplays_tothelimit@...> wrote:

"THEY" don't persay...but the software does...and it alerts staff to "threats" (intelligent players who get lucky)
The trick is to find a machine with an unusually high theo that is also a high return machine...

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, Mike Chow <mgchow@> wrote:
>
> Uh...if you think you were cut off because of "Atlantis Lurkers" on this emai list, I think highly unlikely.
>
> All of the casino's marketing groups run an analysis on their "interesting" players based upon the coin-in, theoretical, and what not. Â And then decide whether they want your biz or not.
>
> You're giving this group too much credit.
>
>
>
>
>
> >________________________________
> > From: Dave <haaljo@>
> >To: vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com
> >Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 7:59 PM
> >Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: Getting No-Mail: All Via Software
> >
> >
> >Â
> >As long as I'm NOT hurting players but if this is unhelpful (including to me) will for sure be ambiguous. One closing unambiguous comment about Atlantis and the failure of our country's management to look at the long term:
> >
> >Got TWO $8K royals at a certain casino in/near Reno. Went to the Atlantis and lost half of it mostly on the FPSDB Multi-strike super times pay machine. About 4 years ago.
> >
> >So Atlantis lurker plese look at our history for more than a year :slight_smile: Then wait until your boss get's shit canned (again) and then point out to the new boss this couple from New England that doesn't come anymore; checked them out and they lost $8K on a trip about 4 years ago.
> >
> >We are cheap dates. if they want there money from last 18 months they got to give us a reason to come back -hint :slight_smile:
> >(End of non-ambiguous comments)
> >
> >Post Script
> >("series of notes appended to a completed article or book.")
> >
> >We have been having great trips the last 18 months. Trying to go west every month or so for a week.
> >Went from losing tens of thousand/year for a couple of years to winning it all back and then some. Reasons:
> >1)The decimation of theoretically advantage paytables took awhile to adjust to as best as a gambler can.
> >2) Luck returning (may the gambling gods continue to shine on us).
> >3) Not doing (as many) stupid things.
> >
> >Will be happy to get back to win "penny a hand days"
> >(ala Elliot Shapiro)
> >Break a leg
> >
> >--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dave, I think your major problem was posting your results here on the
> >> vpfree_reno blog. Many casino's have spy's/lurkers that act on anything
> >> that is written about their casino, and they can figure out who you are
> >> based on your posts that I read !
> >> ...Best...and a fellow member of the "drop dead - your pals Atlantis " club:
> >> Tom
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Dave" <haaljo@>
> >> To: <vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 5:09 PM
> >> Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: Getting No-Mail: All Via Software
> >>
> >>
> >> Like I said, don't know; but since HAL could read lips and you know HAL then
> >> maybe you could enlighten?
> >>
> >> --- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, hedonist144 <hedonist144@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > You didn't say what their opinions are.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Thanks, qz, for what I regard as the most inciteful post in this topic yet.

To suggest that there has been anything greater than a 3rd grader's analysis of wins and losses in determining whose offers gets cut is laughable.

- H.

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "what7do7you7want" <what7do7you7want@...> wrote:

If casinos were analyzing the play of the hands, they would
not bother to wait for you to win. If you are playing
nearly perfect on a game with little or no house edge,
AND they are using this kind of software, they would be
morons to ever send you any mail whatsoever. On the
other hand, most casino execs are morons, so I guess
they could be using that software and still let you
play until you win.

It is FAR more likely that they are NOT analyzing the
play of the hands and are just looking at wins and losses.

I still play there and I know my error rate is VERY low.
And though I had a good run at one point, my luck has
been pretty poor. If they are analyzing play as has
been suggested, they must know I have an edge. But I
am still getting mail.

No-mailing someone for winning is just plain stupid.