vpFREE2 Forums

Gaming activity log

#1

Happy New Year to everybody.
My husband and I are trying to keep records of our VP sessions. For a
past year we used excel spreadsheet to keep the log, but now when
it's time to do tax we realized that format (created by us) is really
nor friendly and it will take us a lot of time to do some kind of
summarization. We also realized that we did not properly map the
column for comps, gifts, promotions, etc.. We would very appreciate
if somebody would help us and maybe share with us the format he/she
is using to log VP sessions. The biggest problem is, that we (I
primarily since I maintain the log) do not want to use diary and
prefer to use PC for any type of "writing".

Thanks

Ellen & Yan

#2

Happy New Year to everybody.
My husband and I are trying to keep records of our VP sessions. For

a

past year we used excel spreadsheet to keep the log, but now when
it's time to do tax we realized that format (created by us) is

really

nor friendly and it will take us a lot of time to do some kind of
summarization. We also realized that we did not properly map the
column for comps, gifts, promotions, etc.. We would very appreciate
if somebody would help us and maybe share with us the format he/she
is using to log VP sessions. The biggest problem is, that we (I
primarily since I maintain the log) do not want to use diary and
prefer to use PC for any type of "writing".

Thanks

Ellen & Yan

Does anyone (possibly Jean/Marissa) have an informed opinion as to
whether a "log", kept on a handheld computer, would be acceptable to
the IRS as a "contemporaneous record"? It would "seem logical" to me
that--as long as entries were made and timestamped immediately after
play--it ought to be. The more so if periodic backups were created
and transmitted to an independent organization; indisputable evidence
that each backup version existed at the time of transmission.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "yglozman" <ellengl@e...> wrote:

#3

<<Does anyone (possibly Jean/Marissa) have an informed opinion as to
whether a "log", kept on a handheld computer, would be acceptable to
the IRS as a "contemporaneous record"? It would "seem logical" to me
that--as long as entries were made and timestamped immediately after
play--it ought to be. The more so if periodic backups were created
and transmitted to an independent organization; indisputable evidence
that each backup version existed at the time of transmission.>>

Here is what Marissa had to say about this question:

"The IRS requires a contemporaneous journal. The requirements were made back in 1977 when computers were the size of a room and Bill Gates was still using zit cream. The IRS doesn't always change with the times. In terms of a diary/journal, as long as the entries were contemporaneous, especially with other evidence to give credence to the entries, the fact that it is electronic shouldn't be a problem. For example, most businesses today keep track of their bookkeeping on systems such as QuickBooks and a lot of business are paperless these days. That doesn't mean the IRS won't accept their records.....

A lot of it too depends upon what kind of mood your auditor is in that day and how convincing you and/or your representative is in front of them. And how believable your overall "story" is."

A note from Jean: The tax book will be ready to ship by next Monday, the 26th, so the pre-pub sale on our Web site will end on the 25th.

···

____________________
Jean $¢ott - The Frugal Gambler
Pre-pub sale on for January release of
"Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler"
at http://www.FrugalGambler.biz

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

Hi!

As far as keeping a "contemporaneous journal" on a small handheld
computer...

I was under the impression that casinos would not allow such things, i.e., =
a
hand-held computer being used while sitting in front of a VP machine.

.....bl

Here is what Marissa had to say about this question:

"The IRS requires a contemporaneous journal. The requirements were

made back in 1977 when computers were the size of a room and Bill Gates
was still using zit cream. The IRS doesn't always change with the times. =
In
terms of a diary/journal, as long as the entries were contemporaneous,
especially with other evidence to give credence to the entries, the fact th=
at it is
electronic shouldn't be a problem. For example, most businesses today keep=

track of their bookkeeping on systems such as QuickBooks and a lot of
business are paperless these days. That doesn't mean the IRS won't accept =

their records.....

···

____________________
Jean $¢ott - The Frugal Gambler
Pre-pub sale on for January release of
"Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler"
at http://www.FrugalGambler.biz

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

"Contemporaneous" in this context does not mean that the information needs to be entered while you are playing; you can do it at home later.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: bornloser1537
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:00 AM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Gaming activity log

  Hi!

  As far as keeping a "contemporaneous journal" on a small handheld
  computer...

  I was under the impression that casinos would not allow such things, i.e., =
  a
  hand-held computer being used while sitting in front of a VP machine.

  .....bl

  > Here is what Marissa had to say about this question:
  >
  > "The IRS requires a contemporaneous journal. The requirements were
  made back in 1977 when computers were the size of a room and Bill Gates
  was still using zit cream. The IRS doesn't always change with the times. =
  In
  terms of a diary/journal, as long as the entries were contemporaneous,
  especially with other evidence to give credence to the entries, the fact th=
  at it is
  electronic shouldn't be a problem. For example, most businesses today keep=

  track of their bookkeeping on systems such as QuickBooks and a lot of
  business are paperless these days. That doesn't mean the IRS won't accept =

  their records.....
  >
  > ____________________
  > Jean $¢ott - The Frugal Gambler
  > Pre-pub sale on for January release of
  > "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler"
  > at http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  >
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#6

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@y...>
wrote:
What I had in mind was to operate the computer only to record the
results after a session of play was completed, as opposed to
operating it during play. (If at all possible, keeping it out of
sight). Agree that operating it DURING play--especially for the
purpose of determining strategy--would be on "very shaky" legal
grounds . . see NRS 465.075.

Hi!

As far as keeping a "contemporaneous journal" on a small handheld
computer...

I was under the impression that casinos would not allow such

things, i.e., =

a
hand-held computer being used while sitting in front of a VP

machine.

.....bl

> Here is what Marissa had to say about this question:
>
> "The IRS requires a contemporaneous journal. The requirements

were

made back in 1977 when computers were the size of a room and Bill

Gates

was still using zit cream. The IRS doesn't always change with the

times. =

In
terms of a diary/journal, as long as the entries were

contemporaneous,

especially with other evidence to give credence to the entries, the

fact th=

at it is
electronic shouldn't be a problem. For example, most businesses

today keep=

track of their bookkeeping on systems such as QuickBooks and a lot

of

business are paperless these days. That doesn't mean the IRS won't

accept =

···

their records.....
>
> ____________________
> Jean $¢ott - The Frugal Gambler
> Pre-pub sale on for January release of
> "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler"
> at http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

"Agree that operating it DURING play--especially for the purpose of
determining strategy--would be on "very shaky" legal grounds"

I'm a COMPLETE newbie, to the group and to VP in general, so forgive
me in advance for this naive question. Is it OK to bring strategy
tables into the casino for reference? You suggest that using a
computer for such reference would be questionable, so it made me
wonder about my plan to print out strategy tables to which I can
refer.

I'm going to Vegas for a birthday party in several weeks, have never
been, and have never gambled!!! But I decided that I might as well
give it a try, and a little research seems to suggest that VP suits
my temperament and bankroll well enough to merit spending some time
(and money) on it while there. I'm practicing using Video Poker
Wizard Coach, but I thought I'd bring the strategy tables in with me
to refer to occasionally. OK? Not OK?

Karin

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "sphboc2003" <sphboc@a...> wrote:

What I had in mind was to operate the computer only to record the
results after a session of play was completed, as opposed to
operating it during play. (If at all possible, keeping it out of
sight). Agree that operating it DURING play--especially for the
purpose of determining strategy--would be on "very shaky" legal
grounds . . see NRS 465.075.

#8

ok

Frank

I'm going to Vegas for a birthday party in several weeks, have

never

been, and have never gambled!!! But I decided that I might as well
give it a try, and a little research seems to suggest that VP suits
my temperament and bankroll well enough to merit spending some time
(and money) on it while there. I'm practicing using Video Poker
Wizard Coach, but I thought I'd bring the strategy tables in with

me

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Karin" <ktravers@p...> wrote:

to refer to occasionally. OK? Not OK?

#9

It will really depend on what you are holding in front of the VP machine. I use a palm pilot and I have not had any problems, but then again I put my money in and make an entry of the machine, money paid,.......and then I put it up. I get it back out when I am done or are moving to a different machine. On occasion it has drawn some attention, but after a quick inspection they let it go.

Hi!

As far as keeping a "contemporaneous journal" on a small handheld
computer...

I was under the impression that casinos would not allow such things, i.e., =
a
hand-held computer being used while sitting in front of a VP machine.

.....bl

Here is what Marissa had to say about this question:

"The IRS requires a contemporaneous journal. The requirements were

made back in 1977 when computers were the size of a room and Bill Gates
was still using zit cream. The IRS doesn't always change with the times. =
In
terms of a diary/journal, as long as the entries were contemporaneous,
especially with other evidence to give credence to the entries, the fact th=
at it is
electronic shouldn't be a problem. For example, most businesses today keep=

track of their bookkeeping on systems such as QuickBooks and a lot of
business are paperless these days. That doesn't mean the IRS won't accept =

their records.....

____________________
Jean $¢ott - The Frugal Gambler
Pre-pub sale on for January release of
"Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler"
at http://www.FrugalGambler.biz

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm

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···

On the other hand if you have it out the whole time you are there and are constantly messing with it, then yea it will be a problem. bornloser1537 <bornloser1537@yahoo.com> wrote:

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10

Bob Dancer says you can use them, but try do be descrete. Never heard
of anyone getting spoken to for using them. Dick McK.

Karin wrote:

"Agree that operating it DURING play--especially for the purpose of
determining strategy--would be on "very shaky" legal grounds"

I'm a COMPLETE newbie, to the group and to VP in general, so forgive
me in advance for this naive question. Is it OK to bring strategy
tables into the casino for reference? You suggest that using a
computer for such reference would be questionable, so it made me
wonder about my plan to print out strategy tables to which I can
refer.
I thought I'd bring the strategy tables in with me
to refer to occasionally. OK? Not OK?

Karin

vpFREE Links:
http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#11

I have taken printed payout tables in a binder as well as strategy
cards with me to play video poker in Bally's, Caesar's Palace,
Alladin, Palms, Stratosphere, Riveria, Shahara, Harrah's, Rio and
Harrah's New Orleans and no one has ever questioned it. If you are
looking for the best payout machines, I found them at Caesar's Palace
and The Palms, both had full pay VP machines in small denominations.

Bob Dancer says you can use them, but try do be descrete. Never

heard

of anyone getting spoken to for using them. Dick McK.

Karin wrote:

> "Agree that operating it DURING play--especially for the purpose

of

> determining strategy--would be on "very shaky" legal grounds"
>
> I'm a COMPLETE newbie, to the group and to VP in general, so

forgive

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Richard Mckenna <tmac2@l...> wrote:

> me in advance for this naive question. Is it OK to bring strategy
> tables into the casino for reference? You suggest that using a
> computer for such reference would be questionable, so it made me
> wonder about my plan to print out strategy tables to which I can
> refer.
> I thought I'd bring the strategy tables in with me
> to refer to occasionally. OK? Not OK?
>
> Karin
>
>
>
>
>
>
> vpFREE Links:
> http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        ADVERTISEMENT
                         [click here]

>
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>
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>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#12

...

   "If you are looking for the best payout machines, I found them

at Caesar's Palace and The Palms, both had full pay VP machines in
small denominations."

Hi mjstro1,

Does Caesar's have more small denomination full pay games than JoB
& MS JoB which are listed in the data base? I ask because Caesars is
one of my favorite casinos and their VP offering certainly greatly
improved between visits a year apart. Further good games would be
great news.

David

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mjstro1" <mjstro1@a...> wrote: