It is my understanding that the tax code does not specifically state
anywhere that W2'G's should be totaled to arrive at Gambling Income.
It has been stated on this board that some use the "session method" to
arrive at a Gambling Income total. Would someone please be so kind as
to share where in the tax code it specifically uses the "session"
terminology? I do understand that "session" is not defined.
Thanks in advance to any/all replies.
Correna Correna
As an Enrolled Agent, I know of no place in the code that says W2'Gs
should be totaled. The code states it is important to keep an accurate
diary or similar record of your gambling winnings and losses. To deduct
your losses, you must be able to provide receipts, tickets, statements
or other records that show the amount of both your winnings and losses.
All clients I have provide me with winnings and income - loss
statements from Casinos where they play.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "correna2" <correna2@...> wrote:
It is my understanding that the tax code does not specifically state
anywhere that W2'G's should be totaled to arrive at Gambling Income.
bobveit wrote:
As an Enrolled Agent, I know of no place in the code that says W2'Gs
should be totaled. The code states it is important to keep an
accurate diary or similar record of your gambling winnings and
losses. To deduct your losses, you must be able to provide receipts,
tickets, statements or other records that show the amount of both
your winnings and losses.
All clients I have provide me with winnings and income - loss
statements from Casinos where they play.
as the tax guidance is written.
Unfortunately, however, the division of play activity between winnings
and losses isn't at all well defined. I see absolutely no support
when it comes to common sense in that division being that reported
W-2G wins are reportable as income and the net of all other play
activity reportable as a loss (assuming that it comes to a net loss,
which is extraordinarily likely).
In absence of a session methodology for play accounting, a strict
interpretation of the guidance would be that the payoff from each and
every winning bet would be reportable as income, and all wagers would
be reported as offsetting losses. This, of course, would yield some
rather absurdly large values for filing.
Session reporting is the method that is most logical. It's also
consistent with how table play is expected to be reported (where no
wins are reported in themselves - large currency transactions are).
Of course, logic and the tax code are generally irreconcilable.
With respect to session reporting, it seems to me that something like
8 years ago, there were examples discussed in IRS Publication 17
(extensive coverage of personal tax filing). However, at present
there's no discussion other than that cited in the post above.
For those in a situation where aggregation of W-2G's results in an
inflated reporting of income and consequent deduction/tax credit phase
outs, the situation is entirely maddening.
- Harry
From my layman's reading I concur. W-2G's are irrelevant to reporting
Harry - go surfin' or something man - you will be in frigid Philly (filly?) soon enough!
Steve, who will be in Kauai in 3 weeks!
bobveit wrote:
As an Enrolled Agent, I know of no place in the code that says W2'Gs
should be totaled. The code states it is important to keep an
accurate diary or similar record of your gambling winnings and
losses. To deduct your losses, you must be able to provide receipts,
tickets, statements or other records that show the amount of both
your winnings and losses.
All clients I have provide me with winnings and income - loss
statements from Casinos where they play.
as the tax guidance is written.
Unfortunately, however, the division of play activity between winnings
and losses isn't at all well defined. I see absolutely no support
when it comes to common sense in that division being that reported
W-2G wins are reportable as income and the net of all other play
activity reportable as a loss (assuming that it comes to a net loss,
which is extraordinarily likely).
In absence of a session methodology for play accounting, a strict
interpretation of the guidance would be that the payoff from each and
every winning bet would be reportable as income, and all wagers would
be reported as offsetting losses. This, of course, would yield some
rather absurdly large values for filing.
Session reporting is the method that is most logical. It's also
consistent with how table play is expected to be reported (where no
wins are reported in themselves - large currency transactions are).
Of course, logic and the tax code are generally irreconcilable.
With respect to session reporting, it seems to me that something like
8 years ago, there were examples discussed in IRS Publication 17
(extensive coverage of personal tax filing). However, at present
there's no discussion other than that cited in the post above.
For those in a situation where aggregation of W-2G's results in an
inflated reporting of income and consequent deduction/tax credit phase
outs, the situation is entirely maddening.
- Harry
Harry Porter <harry.porter@verizon.net> wrote:
From my layman's reading I concur. W-2G's are irrelevant to reporting
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jigger Woodruff wrote:
Harry - go surfin' or something man - you will be in frigid Philly
(filly?) soon enough!
I've left the surfing to a friend who's with us -- my anticipated
floundering along those lines were nipped in the bud when I snagged my
foot on a sea urchin as I was stepping over to retrieve my shoes after
exiting the water from snorkeling. I have a heel full of tiny spines
and a modest gash to serve as a short-term souvenir of the trip.
Steve, who will be in Kauai in 3 weeks!
Ok, I'm envious <toungue hanging out>. Kauai was our first pick but,
having booked the trip on somewhat short notice, the desired timeshare
accomodations weren't available. The "big island" wasn't a shabby
substitute.
I'm sure you've got your sights on your planned day trips, but I'll
offer up two key ones from our prior trip: Ke'e Beach offers up the
most breathtaking snorkeling we've ever enjoyed. The reef is a very
easy access and anything but strenuous. Bring a disposable underwater
camera and you'll be thrilled with what you bring home.
If you're looking for pure and simple beach time, you won't go wrong
with Hanalei. It's simply awesome. It's expansive and sandy, and we
found it relatively lightly occupied when here in March a few years
ago. The water is a joy to romp in.
Enjoy!
- Harry
Ok, I'm envious <toungue hanging out>. Kauai was our first pick but,
having booked the trip on somewhat short notice, the desired
timeshare
accomodations weren't available. The "big island" wasn't a shabby
substitute.
Is this a Big Island trip you've already taken? I've been to both,
but it's the Big Island that lures me back year after year.
Did you snorkel at Two Steps (near Place of Refuge)?
--Dunbar
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:
dunbar_dra wrote:
Is this a Big Island trip you've already taken? I've been to both,
but it's the Big Island that lures me back year after year.Did you snorkel at Two Steps (near Place of Refuge)?
I hope I'll be forgiven the bandwidth in reply -- I won't majorly
obsess (and the laptop's getting shortly stowed away until our return
flight tomorrow night. FWIW, time here is 5 hours earlier than the
time stamp.)
It's my 3rd visit here - the first time 21 years ago on a 2-night
layover (sans Bev), the last about 6 years ago on the 2nd week of a 17
day visit (1st week was Kauai, last 3 days an abbreviated stay on Maui).
No doubt the raw beauty of the island is awesome! The real highlight
this trip was the 30-min off road trek in our Wrangler to Green Sand
Beach. The landscape was stunning and the beach a rather stunning
swim. We didn't encounter anyone else making the trek by vehicle down
the trail, although upon arrival there were four 4WD's owned by locals
that were monster vehicles by comparison. (Please, no speculation on
our liability if I had managed to fracture the drive drain on a rock!)
We did spot about 20 stalwarts along the way in and out who were
making the jaunt on foot. However, no one but the locals and us made
the modestly steep climb down to the beach (really not too bad at all)
so we felt like we were basking in our own private enclave.
------
Place of Refuge was indeed our snorkel -- but I wonder if we "put in"
at the best place. The place we dropped into the water might have
been a little better suited for a dive (and there was an underwater
tube that I expect would have been an awesome exploration).
"Two Steps" might well describe our descent into/ascent out of the
water. The second of those was a biggie, and after a rather vigorous
time in the water, mustering the upper body strength to exit the water
was a challenge (waiting for the right wave for a boost was critical
;). My assistance to Bev in getting out was rather comical and it was
even odds that I was going to spill both of us back in rather than
help lift her out.
It was in my stagger away from that exercise that I inadvertantly
stepped on a thin layer of algae and sent my foot skidding down
between two rocks.
------
btw, our initial stay at the time was at one of the truly best B&B's
we've ever enjoyed. Aloha Guest House sits at a 1500 ft elevation
above Honaunau/Place of Refuge and made for a beautifully relaxing
trip start. The property is fairly remote (the 10 min rocky hillside
run up from the main road is effective at keeping curious day trippers
away) and the attention to detail of the owners is unparalleled. With
a wall of windows in our bedroom looking out over the Bay below, the
view on waking was a truly inspiring way to start the day.
We had a dubious thrill included with breakfast on our second day. As
we sat on the patio that's stilted about 30' above the ground, an
aftershock to the Nov 6 quake hit. My eyes were rather fixed on the
ground below during the 15 sec tremor (one of the owner's went running
for the china cabinet where the glassware took a good toll in the
earlier quake). Can't say that it was such a bad alternative to our
typical breakfast distraction back home in Philly, hearing a salty
exchange between a neighbor and a delivery man who's temporarily
blocked out one lane street 
--------
We're headed over to Hilton Waikoloa Beach Resort later this morning
for our last night. I can't imagine a better place to laze away the
day; the property is just incredible. A walk through the compound
last night suggests very light occupancy and I'm biting at the bit to
swim the lagoon and then snooze the afternoon away in one of the
canopy covered lounge chairs overlooking the shoreline
- Harry
Ah, Harry, I didn't realize you were there right now! Loved reading
your "report"; I could almost smell the plumeria and feel the warm
breezes.
Congrats on making it to Green Sand Beach. It has always been
tempting, but we've never done it.
The food court at the Hilton Waikoloa marketplace ("King's Shops"?)
is our usual dinner stop on our way back from body surfing at
Hapuna, which is a beauty of a beach a few miles north of Waikoloa.
Your description of Two Steps sounds about right for when the water
is a little wavy. Most of the time it's calm enough to get out
pretty easily.
I trust you found some turtles to swim with?
--Dunbar