vpFREE2 Forums

Gaffed Games

#1

Bill Coleman wrote:

A game that is designed to use another paradigm than each card having
an equal chance to play, such as Class II machines found in Alabama
ARE NOT "GAFFED"!!!!!

You spin the Big Wheel at the carival, but it never stops on your number.
It's using "another paradigm" to select its stopping point. It's gaffed.

A gaffed machine has been modified to cheat and not perform as
originally designed. Class II machines and a very few VLT's are
designed to work on Bingo or scratch-off lottery tickets, respectively.

If they give the appearance of working on one basis, while actually working
on another, they're gaffed. Gaffed as designed, perhaps. If you throw the
dice in a casino that come up more on some numbers than others, would the
fact that the unbalanced weights were originally manufactured into the dice,
rather than added later, affect your belief that they were gaffed dice or
not?

Too many people think that these machines are not fair. They ARE
fair, they just work more like slot machines than VP machines.

Define "fair". If all parties to a gamble have equal information, that's
fair. When one party misrepresents the gamble so the other is not getting
the gamble they expect, that's gaffed.

In addition, I am offended by vpFae's even posing the question since
there is NO evidence that any machine in any US casino has ever been
gaffed.

That's simply false. There have been many cases, a few of which got some
publicity.

In fact, the only known case was years ago when a route operator gaffed
the machines in taverns on their route. AND THEY WERE CAUGHT.

They weren't "caught" (despite several advantage players reporting their
anomalous results); the competing route operators turned them in. Unable to
ignore it any more, Gaming finally started an "investigation" which
stretched on without conclusion until the matter was ended by the murder of
the lead prosecution witness, at which point the charges against the company
and its principals were dropped. Later, the hired killer testified as to who
had hired him, with full corroborating details. No arrests were made.

···

--
Randy Hudson

#2

They weren't "caught" (despite several advantage players reporting their
anomalous results); the competing route operators turned them in.

Unable to

ignore it any more, Gaming finally started an "investigation" which
stretched on without conclusion until the matter was ended by the

murder of

the lead prosecution witness, at which point the charges against the

company

and its principals were dropped. Later, the hired killer testified

as to who

had hired him, with full corroborating details. No arrests were made.

--
Randy Hudson

Not true. 3 people went to prison for the murder.
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/security/0,1000000189,2075068,00.htm

#3

A question:

If the word "slots" appears under a vp game on the video screen does that mean it is fairly gaffed and you are on notice?

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL100626971033

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

They weren't "caught" (despite several advantage players reporting their
anomalous results); the competing route operators turned them in.

Unable to

ignore it any more, Gaming finally started an "investigation" which
stretched on without conclusion until the matter was ended by the

murder of

the lead prosecution witness, at which point the charges against the

company

and its principals were dropped. Later, the hired killer testified

as to who

had hired him, with full corroborating details. No arrests were made.

--
Randy Hudson

Not true. 3 people went to prison for the murder.
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/security/0,1000000189,2075068,00.htm

This says that only 2 were facing jail time. Were you including the
killer? And
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/1999/Dec-22-Wed-1999/news/12605224.html
says that 1 of the 2 received only probation.

#5

This is another case of dumb criminals. If Volk would have
programmed the machines to hit royals at, say 25% of the going rate,
then employess and players in the bars would not have become so
suspicious. It was they're sour grapes at not seeing any royals for
a long, long, time that caught up with American Coin.

> They weren't "caught" (despite several advantage players

reporting their

> anomalous results); the competing route operators turned them

in.

Unable to
> ignore it any more, Gaming finally started an "investigation"

which

> stretched on without conclusion until the matter was ended by the
murder of
> the lead prosecution witness, at which point the charges against

the

company
> and its principals were dropped. Later, the hired killer

testified

as to who
> had hired him, with full corroborating details. No arrests were

made.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpbob_2000" <vpbob1@...> wrote:

>
> --
> Randy Hudson
>
Not true. 3 people went to prison for the murder.
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/security/0,1000000189,2075068,00.htm

#6

I stand corrected. Yes, I was counting the gunman, who could not be
prosecuted for the shooting due to double jeopardy. The woman who
received probation did so for her lesser involvement and her lack of a
criminal record.

>> They weren't "caught" (despite several advantage players

reporting their

>> anomalous results); the competing route operators turned them in.
>Unable to
>> ignore it any more, Gaming finally started an "investigation" which
>> stretched on without conclusion until the matter was ended by the
>murder of
>> the lead prosecution witness, at which point the charges against the
>company
>> and its principals were dropped. Later, the hired killer testified
>as to who
>> had hired him, with full corroborating details. No arrests were

made.

>>
>> --
>> Randy Hudson
>>
>Not true. 3 people went to prison for the murder.
>http://news.zdnet.co.uk/security/0,1000000189,2075068,00.htm

This says that only 2 were facing jail time. Were you including the
killer? And

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/1999/Dec-22-Wed-1999/news/12605224.html

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Tom Robertson <madameguyon@...> wrote:

says that 1 of the 2 received only probation.

#7

This will be my last posting on the topic, if you enjoy thinking you're being cheated more power to you. Just please don't spread your paranoia to rational people. To be clear, there is only 1 jurisdiction I have seen where a Bingo Card was not clearly displayed on the machine. And, with respect, if your analogy to a fixed wheel is a measure of your logical analytical capabilities then I feel sorry for you. (A fixed wheel will never let you win, in Bingo you have the same chance as everyone else in the casino. The analogy doesn't make sense on any level).

···

At 03:05 AM 11/9/2007, you wrote:

Bill Coleman wrote:

> A game that is designed to use another paradigm than each card having
> an equal chance to play, such as Class II machines found in Alabama
> ARE NOT "GAFFED"!!!!!

You spin the Big Wheel at the carival, but it never stops on your number.
It's using "another paradigm" to select its stopping point. It's gaffed.

> A gaffed machine has been modified to cheat and not perform as
> originally designed. Class II machines and a very few VLT's are
> designed to work on Bingo or scratch-off lottery tickets, respectively.

If they give the appearance of working on one basis, while actually working
on another, they're gaffed. Gaffed as designed, perhaps. If you throw the
dice in a casino that come up more on some numbers than others, would the
fact that the unbalanced weights were originally manufactured into the dice,
rather than added later, affect your belief that they were gaffed dice or
not?

> Too many people think that these machines are not fair. They ARE
> fair, they just work more like slot machines than VP machines.

Define "fair". If all parties to a gamble have equal information, that's
fair. When one party misrepresents the gamble so the other is not getting
the gamble they expect, that's gaffed.

> In addition, I am offended by vpFae's even posing the question since
> there is NO evidence that any machine in any US casino has ever been
> gaffed.

That's simply false. There have been many cases, a few of which got some
publicity.

> In fact, the only known case was years ago when a route operator gaffed
> the machines in taverns on their route. AND THEY WERE CAUGHT.

They weren't "caught" (despite several advantage players reporting their
anomalous results); the competing route operators turned them in. Unable to
ignore it any more, Gaming finally started an "investigation" which
stretched on without conclusion until the matter was ended by the murder of
the lead prosecution witness, at which point the charges against the company
and its principals were dropped. Later, the hired killer testified as to who
had hired him, with full corroborating details. No arrests were made.

--
Randy Hudson

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#8

Bill Coleman wrote:

This will be my last posting on the topic, if you enjoy thinking
you're being cheated more power to you. Just please don't spread your
paranoia to rational people.

Are you really saying that you're so much more rational than the man
who asked you why playing with a 1.4% advantage leaves open the
possibility that one is a good citizen, whereas only playing at a 1.5%
advantage or more doesn't that his question isn't even worth an
answer?

To be clear, there is only 1
jurisdiction I have seen where a Bingo Card was not clearly displayed
on the machine. And, with respect, if your analogy to a fixed wheel
is a measure of your logical analytical capabilities then I feel
sorry for you. (A fixed wheel will never let you win, in Bingo you
have the same chance as everyone else in the casino. The analogy
doesn't make sense on any level).

What does having the same chance as everyone else in the casino have
to do with whether a machine is gaffed or not? Are you really saying
that gaffed machines will NEVER let you win? Wouldn't they be quite
quickly detected if they did that?