vpFREE2 Forums

FW: Trump (VP) and on line poker (XVP)

#1

Does anyone have a host recommendation at Trump? What level of play ( coin in per day) do they expect before you should interact with a host? How is Trump about cashing expired bounceback checks? Does anyone have an estimate of the bounceback rate?
   
  On to the XVP subject, on line poker. I have seen a pretty intense discussion about cheating on line. I have seen plenty of bizarre wagering but I see that at live games as well. I have been playing low limits ( $0.50 - $1.00 and $3 - $6) at 3 sites, Absolute Poker, Party Poker and Paradise Poker. I've seen plenty of plays that would make Malmuth and Sklansky puke, but that's poker. I have also made money at all 3 sites. I'd summarize the style of the average player as follows:
   
  1) Any, and I mean any, 2 cards can win.
   
  2) Since the final bet is only a dollar ( or 2 or 3) I will call with 3rd, 4th or 5th pair consistently.
   
  3) People who lose on the river whine like Phil Hellmuth, even if they were behind preflop and flop and hit a miracle turn card.
   
  4) A blind steal bet irritates people.
   
  5) There is very little understanding of pot odds and position
   
  6) Similar to 2, overcards don't scare people. Pocket 10s with a J and K on the board will call a raise.
   
  7) Pocket pairs get way, way overplayed
   
  8) Generally, one or 2 competent players at a table.
   
  The interesting aspect of on line poker is the pool of players you are up against. There's susposedly 75 million poker players in the US. Above that, there's a bunch of players who may have never stepped foot in a card room or casino. You are bound to see some funny stuff.
   
  I did play a $5 $10 session at Party and the results were a little funny. Not enough to accuse but I will stick to the lower limits for a while.
   
  Since on line poker has been a very lucrative hobby, I welcome the discussion on cheating, collusion etc A more obvious problem I see is sitters at one table tournaments. Someone will buy in and then blind off until 4 players remain. They will take their chance with a short stack against the lessened field.

···

-----Original Message-----
  From: Zaroff, John
  Sent: Sun 8/29/2004 3:37 PM
  To: vpFree_Chicago@yahhogroups.com
  Cc:
  Subject: Trump (VP) and on line poker (XVP)
  
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#2

--- In vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com, "John.G.Zaroff"
<John.G.Zaroff@d...> wrote:

  From: Zaroff, John
  Sent: Sun 8/29/2004 3:37 PM
  To: vpFree_Chicago@y...
  Cc:
  Subject: Trump (VP) and on line poker (XVP)
  
  Does anyone have a host recommendation at Trump? What level of

play ( coin in per day) do they expect before you should interact with
a host? How is Trump about cashing expired bounceback checks? Does
anyone have an estimate of the bounceback rate?

   
  On to the XVP subject, on line poker. I have seen a pretty intense

discussion about cheating on line. I have seen plenty of bizarre
wagering but I see that at live games as well. I have been playing
low limits ( $0.50 - $1.00 and $3 - $6) at 3 sites, Absolute Poker,
Party Poker and Paradise Poker. I've seen plenty of plays that would
make Malmuth and Sklansky puke, but that's poker. I have also made
money at all 3 sites. I'd summarize the style of the average player as
follows:

   
  1) Any, and I mean any, 2 cards can win.
   
  2) Since the final bet is only a dollar ( or 2 or 3) I will call

with 3rd, 4th or 5th pair consistently.

   
  3) People who lose on the river whine like Phil Hellmuth, even if

they were behind preflop and flop and hit a miracle turn card.

   
  4) A blind steal bet irritates people.
   
  5) There is very little understanding of pot odds and position
   
  6) Similar to 2, overcards don't scare people. Pocket 10s with a J

and K on the board will call a raise.

   
  7) Pocket pairs get way, way overplayed
   
  8) Generally, one or 2 competent players at a table.
   
  The interesting aspect of on line poker is the pool of players you

are up against. There's susposedly 75 million poker players in the
US. Above that, there's a bunch of players who may have never stepped
foot in a card room or casino. You are bound to see some funny stuff.

   
  I did play a $5 $10 session at Party and the results were a little

funny. Not enough to accuse but I will stick to the lower limits for
a while.

   
  Since on line poker has been a very lucrative hobby, I welcome the

discussion on cheating, collusion etc A more obvious problem I see is
sitters at one table tournaments. Someone will buy in and then blind
off until 4 players remain. They will take their chance with a short
stack against the lessened field.

Huh? That's exactly the right way to play against fish (sorry that's a
chess term - it means weak players). The key to winning NL HoldEm
tournaments is *solid* play. Let the fish knock each other out. For a
good treatment of this subject see Cloutier & McEvoy. Obviously a
solid player would like to build his stack en route to being in the
money, but the most important thing is survival. I think what you've
observed as "blinding off" is just solid players not catching cards.
You don't need to be extraordinarily tight in order to be solid.
Gunning early in either single or multi table tournaments is just
reckless and is apt to get you bounced.

···

  -----Original Message-----

****************************************************************************************

Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged

and confidential and thus protected from disclosure. If the reader of
this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent
responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you
are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of
this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to
the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you.

****************************************************************************************

#3

I agree with vp_nbi that solid play in the earlier stages of a tournament
will maximize most player's EV. Generally speaking, the further you progress
in a tournament, the more you should loosen up, and there are often spots
where you should shift gears from tight to loose or vice versa and back
again.

OTOH, players such as Gus Hansen who seem to have the talent to play
and win consistently with garbage hands, do very well playing loose most
of the time.

vpFREE Administrator

···

On 29 Aug 2004 at 21:56, vp_nbi wrote:

The key to winning NL HoldEm tournaments is *solid* play. Let the fish
knock each other out. For a good treatment of this subject see Cloutier &
McEvoy. Obviously a solid player would like to build his stack en route to
being in the money, but the most important thing is survival. I think what
you've observed as "blinding off" is just solid players not catching cards.
You don't need to be extraordinarily tight in order to be solid. Gunning
early in either single or multi table tournaments is just
reckless and is apt to get you bounced.

#4

Cheating is always being alleged and discussed on rec.gambling.poker
and other poker sites, and someone is always accusing one site or
another of having "action flops", non random software etc.. Nothing
that I've read or heard or experienced makes me believe that any of
the major sites don't offer honest games. OTOH, collusion by players
is a given, and IMO isn't much of a problem, because they are so inept
at it. I welcome these colluders in the no limit and pot limit omaha8
games that I play regularly.

vpFREE Administrator

···

On 29 Aug 2004 at 16:47, John.G.Zaroff wrote:

On to the XVP subject, on line poker. I have seen a pretty intense
discussion about cheating on line.

#5

> The key to winning NL HoldEm tournaments is *solid* play. Let the fish
> knock each other out. For a good treatment of this subject see

Cloutier &

> McEvoy. Obviously a solid player would like to build his stack en

route to

> being in the money, but the most important thing is survival. I

think what

> you've observed as "blinding off" is just solid players not

catching cards.

> You don't need to be extraordinarily tight in order to be solid.

Gunning

> early in either single or multi table tournaments is just
> reckless and is apt to get you bounced.

I agree with vp_nbi that solid play in the earlier stages of a

tournament

will maximize most player's EV. Generally speaking, the further you

progress

in a tournament, the more you should loosen up, and there are often

spots

where you should shift gears from tight to loose or vice versa and back
again.

OTOH, players such as Gus Hansen who seem to have the talent to play
and win consistently with garbage hands, do very well playing loose most
of the time.

Most of us see Gus plying his "drunken machine gun" style in WPT
events in which he's already in the money. He's too smart to play that
way all the time. BTW, both Gus and Phil got bounced early this year
in the WSOP.

···

--- In vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE" <vpFREE@C...> wrote:

On 29 Aug 2004 at 21:56, vp_nbi wrote:

vpFREE Administrator