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FW: Multi-Strike DB Deuces

Thanks, Harry.
I figured 30-20-10 was 6-4-2 x5, but needed the reference back to the Bob
Dancer article I obiviously needed to reread. Embarrassingly, I am a computer
moron and have never defined values before, but I guess I have sufficient
motivation now. This will also work on BDWP? Or do I need to get VP Strategy Master
(been meaning to anyway) One last question...does 6-4-2 work for NSUD and
other games as well? Or is there a different strategy trick?
Once again, thanks
Dori

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dori wrote:

Thanks, Harry.
I figured 30-20-10 was 6-4-2 x5, but needed the reference back to
the Bob Dancer article I obiviously needed to reread.
Embarrassingly, I am a computer moron and have never defined values
before, but I guess
I have sufficient motivation now. This will also work on BDWP? Or do
I need to get VP Strategy Master (been meaning to anyway) One last
question...does 6-4-2 work for NSUD and other games as well? Or is
there a different strategy trick?
Once again, thanks

I'm glad the reply was helpful, Dori. I'm answering your questions
for starters here. But I'm following with a rather extensive
discussion of what underlies the 6-4-2 strategy basics.

If that discussion proves to be everything you NEVER wanted to ask
about multistrike, that's fine. But it provides a grasp of the game
that I find very helpful in approaching analsysis of strategy. It
gives me a decent sense that if I go wrong somewhere I'll recognize my
error and get myself on the right track promptly.

···

------------

Ok, here's the reply to your questions and a few additional comments
about available software:

For purposes of practice, augmenting the paytables in Winpoker
appropriately, through the discussed 6-4-2 method, will allow you to
approach each Level. It'll guide you in selecting the best holds
during your practice. And, yes, it's applicable to most any game (as
detailed in the later discussion here).

However, clearly a player wants a strategy chart from which to really
nail a game. That's where software like VP Strategy Master (vpsm)
comes in. Key in the augmented paytable and out will pop your
strategy chart.

----

Before running out and purchasing vpsm, you might alternatively
consider purchasing Frugal Video Poker. This software both allows you
to practice a game as well as develop/print strategy charts and is a
very attractive product.

For what it's worth, there are some features of winpoker that I prefer
over fvp (in particular I find the menus much easier to follow when
accessing more advanced features and I definitely favor the graphics
in practice), but there a good number of fvp features that are
terrific refinements over winpoker.

A critical one for the beginning/intermediate player is that fvp only
flags errors that violate "standard" strategy (i.e. it doesn't take
into account card "penalties" or "interferences" that can shift hold
values modestly. The impact of penalties can cause a shift prompting
winpoker to advise holds that differ from standard strategy to a
modest degree in certain circumstances.

That becomes very confusing for the player looking to master standard
strategy and is more deterent than valuable given that the
differencess are pretty small in the scheme of things.

fvp, on the other hand, has a setting that will always advise you
based on standard strategy and can be a great solace when it comes to
learning a game like double bonus that has a number of frequently
occuring penalties.

So, in case it's not apparent, I'm definitely biased toward fvp for
most players. It has some advanced analysis features that I find
indispensible for advanced learning as well. But when it comes to
basic practice I still gravitate toward winpoker, having a decent grip
on standard strategy.

------------

Here's that review of multistrike analysis, provided for whatever
benefit you may find in it:

The concept behind the 6-4-2 increment discussed by Dancer is
relatatively straightforward bottom line. For standard vp, optimal
strategy for a game weighs the payouts of each possible winning hand
and determines for any dealt hand what hold presents the greatest
average expected win.

The evaluation of Multistrike strategy is approached the same way.
However, there are two distinct "payouts" for a winning hand in MS --
the hand win itself plus the opportunity to play higher level hands
and win additional credits. That opportunity has a value which can be
added to the base winning hand payouts so that you can evaluate the
total value of possible holds.

So the question becomes what value do you add to the standard hand
wins. Let's assume that the base game has very close to a 100% ER and
for these calculations we'll treat it as being 100% exactly. Also,
since the frequency of a win in most games is approximately 50%, we'll
use that for the calculation here. (That's not a bad approximation
since one aspect of multistrike is that the Free Ride frequencies are
largely set so that the probability of advancing from one level to the
next is close to 50%.)

These assumptions are decent ones for most any game that players here
should be interested in. Even with a 98% ER game (shudder :slight_smile: it's
good enough for government work.

Under thse assumptions, once you win on Level 1, the value of
advancement to Level 2 is the EV of playing that next hand x the
multiplier for that level. If we call the EV at 100% 1 bet, the
multiplier for Level 2 is "2", for a total added value of 2 bets.
That's the first addition to the payout for Level 1.

In advancing to Level 2, you are also rewarded with a potential
advancement to Level 3 and 4. Keeping in mind that the starting
position was evaluating the value of a win on Level 1 and therefore
it's assumed that there's advancement to Level 2, the probability of
advancement to Level 3 and then to Level 4 is multiplied by a
continued factor of a 50% win. Therefore, a win on Level 1 gives us a
100% chance of playing Level 2, 50% chance of playing Level 3, and 25%
of playing Level 4.

At the same time, the payouts for each level double. The Level 2 EV
as noted above is two bets, and Level 3 and 4 are four and eight
respectively. When you multiply the probability of playing each level
by the EV of each, you end up with an increment to the base pays for a
level of 2 bets for each level above it.

Putting this all together, to evaluate optimal strategy for Level 1,
you add 6 bets to the base paytable. For Level 2 you add 4 bets. For
Level 3 you add 2 bets. Level 4 is simply evaluated with the base
paytable since there's no further advancement. Voila, 6-4-2. (When a
bet is 5 credits, that becomes 30-20-10 credits.)

------------

Ok, that could have been condensed quite a bit but I prefer to leave
no potential gaps to jump. Obviously it's not necessary to have a
full grasp of the logic behind this approach in order to apply it.
But it's beneficial for those like me who are hesitant to apply a
procedure without understanding it. As I noted up front, if you go
wrong at some point you have a decent chance of recognizing it.

- Harry

Opzop2wah@aol.com wrote:

Thanks, Harry.
I figured 30-20-10 was 6-4-2 x5, but needed the reference back to the Bob
Dancer article I obviously needed to reread. Embarrassingly, I am a computer
moron and have never defined values before, but I guess I have sufficient
motivation now. This will also work on BDWP?

Those are virtual values that will work on _any_ computer program which allows you to adjust the paytable, including WinPoker, FrugalVP, and VPStrategyMaster; if they don't, then there is something wrong with the computer program.

Or do I need to get VP Strategy Master
(been meaning to anyway)

Unless you already have WinPoker, I would definitely recommend FrugalVP rather than the combination of WinPoker and VPSM; frankly, even if you do have WinPoker, I think an investment in FrugalVP is better than purchasing VPSM. If you already have VPSM, and are looking to a program to practice with, Frugal is now my first choice. Although WinPoker has a few features that are not available in Frugal, it also has a serious glitch and apparently is not going to be updated in the future.

  One last question...does 6-4-2 work for NSUD and
other games as well? Or is there a different strategy trick?
Once again, thanks

Pretty much so; "6-4-2" is just an approximation which might or might not give you a completely accurate strategy, depending upon the game that you are employing it with. However, it is very close, and you will find that even mathematically _perfect_ adjustments will be very close to those values. If you want to see the mathical rationale behind those values, I have a page that explains it here: http://www.velek.com/ms Nothing commerical there; just FYI.

Cheers, and good luck.

Bill Velek