vpFREE2 Forums

Fw: Irony at The Palms

"Casinos sell fun." What happened to the gaming industry? The business executives that run the strip casinos have lost sight of what gamblers consider to be fun. This includes Wynn who use to know what to do to attract gamblers. The move toward luxury meals, rooms,resort fees, and shopping while increasing house percentages on all the games might work in better times but not now. The sad thing is the industry's unwillingness to even try to attract the gamblers who want a decent play.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Coleman" <vphobby2@...> wrote:

Hi Jason,

OK, let's get technical. Casinos are in the Hospitality Industry with Hotels
and Restaurants. One of the most significant features of Hospitality is
service. Look at the Entertainment industry -- movies, theme parks, sports,
boats, etc. Service is an insignificant part of their business. Where the
parallel does play is that people take discretionary income and decide to
spend it on Entertainment or Hospitality and the two compete for that
income. (Yes, you can find other choices but bear with me in a small
simplification).

Hospitality businesses all sell consumable products (in the broad sense of
consumable. The hotel room for tonight is used, you have nothing left. The
food in the restaurant is gone after you eat it, you have nothing left
(doggie bag excepted). The game on the vp, slot or table game is gone after
you play it, you have nothing left. But this doesn't mean that casinos and
restaurants are not retail businesses -- in fact management in both
industries acknowledge the fact. So let's look closer.

There are many types of retail businesses. Apparel sells clothes, Shoes sell
shoes, Big Box sell a variety of products as do Department stores. Jewelers
sell jewelry, Coin Dealers and Antique dealers sell used goods. Groceries
sell groceries and Pharmacies sell medicines. Restaurants sell food and
Casinos sell fun. So do Game Arcades. (Yes, today many of these lines are
blurred but it doesn't make a difference).

Some retailers sell specific brands. Bang and Olufsen or Apple Stores have
unique products. Ace Hardware and TrueValue sell exactly the same stuff. So
some retailers compete on unique merchandise and others on price or
ambiance. Casinos need to compete on price and ambiance.

Is this a perfect analogy? No, but it is necessary. If you are running a
Gaming property and don't look at it in this light you will make many
mistakes that will cut back your business. Even in this economy Las Vegas
properties could increase their market share if they really got the
fundamentals right. Unfortunately, and for many reasons, none of them
(except maybe for South Point) are trying to compete at this level.

B

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
fordscks
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 3:21 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Fw: Irony at The Palms

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Coleman" <vphobby2@> wrote:
> Can I assume that if you only buy sales items using your card at your
local supermarket, or if you only buy loss-leaders at Best Buy you should
lose your grocery card or be prevented from buying sale items at Best Buy?
>
> Both you and most (not all) casino managers have no idea how a retail
business is run. Please note the correlation with the number of poorly run
casino companies that are in or near bankruptcy.

Bill, a few things:
1) Casinos are in the entertainment business, not retail business per se
like a supermarket. Casinos are in "service" business. So your analogy does
not translate well. Please note entertainment businesses (since this is
discretionary activities for many) do suffer during a deep recession whereas
people still need to buy the basics from a supermarket to live.
Additionally, the supermarket doesn't care if you are paying with WIC or
foodstamps.

2) The topic you are talking about is covered in "Angel Customers & Demon
Customer" (link at amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Angel-Customers-Demon-Discover-Turbo-Charge/dp/1591840
074/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279318010&sr=8-1) Basically the old
premise of "Customer is always right" is flawed, deeply flawed.

3. The latin term is Caveat Venditor, the opposite of caveat emptor. Let
the seller beware works just as well as let the buyer beware. If you want
to sell things at the wrong prices, so be it and watch the parasites come
out of the woodworks.

Again, thanks for your help via private email on class 2 versus class 3
machines.

Exactly! This is the same clown that posts on LVA every time this topic comes up. He seems to be offended by free play or point cash and he thinks he is clever with his cute little "welfare checks" phrase. I'm just a recreational player but I have never seen anyone get so upset if someone uses free play or point cash when factoring their return. It is comical indeed. I am not bothered one bit if he doesn't like to factor that component in his return.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Cogno Scienti" <cognoscienti@...> wrote:

> I'd rather play FPDW progressive with the Palms .25% free play with no
> other giveaways ANY day than the NSUD with the food coupons, welfare
> checks, etc. that so many addicts (aka pro's) bang away on for hours at
> a time, deluding themselves into thinking they are going to make a
> living with their infinitesimal edge-computed using the ALWAYS mythical
> and illusory "perfect play".

I don't see what mythical and illusory perfect play has to do with it. If
the offers add more that 1% to the play, then NSUD is better, regardless of
how good your skill is.

Cogno

I am not a "clown". You can continue to bang away forever on your NSUD machines convincing yourself that your welfare check (a phrase used long before I played my first VP) makes you a pro instead of an addict.
Personally I'll stick to the Palms FPDW which is over 101% all day every day not just "on Wednesdays with months ending in Y between 2-3AM if you knock 3 times on the ceiling and twice on the pipe"-which isn't too far from some of these transient promotions.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "smallfish_61" <rsmalley2@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Cogno Scienti" <cognoscienti@> wrote:
>
> > I'd rather play FPDW progressive with the Palms .25% free play with no
> > other giveaways ANY day than the NSUD with the food coupons, welfare
> > checks, etc. that so many addicts (aka pro's) bang away on for hours at
> > a time, deluding themselves into thinking they are going to make a
> > living with their infinitesimal edge-computed using the ALWAYS mythical
> > and illusory "perfect play".
>
> I don't see what mythical and illusory perfect play has to do with it. If
> the offers add more that 1% to the play, then NSUD is better, regardless of
> how good your skill is.
>
> Cogno
>

Exactly! This is the same clown that posts on LVA every time this topic comes up. He seems to be offended by free play or point cash and he thinks he is clever with his cute little "welfare checks" phrase. I'm just a recreational player but I have never seen anyone get so upset if someone uses free play or point cash when factoring their return. It is comical indeed. I am not bothered one bit if he doesn't like to factor that component in his return.

Math is hard.

Cogno

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf
Of mike
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 5:47 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Fw: Irony at The Palms

I am not a "clown". You can continue to bang away forever on your NSUD
machines convincing yourself that your welfare check (a phrase used
long before I played my first VP) makes you a pro instead of an addict.
Personally I'll stick to the Palms FPDW which is over 101% all day
every day not just "on Wednesdays with months ending in Y between 2-3AM
if you knock 3 times on the ceiling and twice on the pipe"-which isn't
too far from some of these transient promotions.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "smallfish_61" <rsmalley2@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Cogno Scienti" <cognoscienti@> wrote:
> >
> > > I'd rather play FPDW progressive with the Palms .25% free play
with no
> > > other giveaways ANY day than the NSUD with the food coupons,
welfare
> > > checks, etc. that so many addicts (aka pro's) bang away on for
hours at
> > > a time, deluding themselves into thinking they are going to make
a
> > > living with their infinitesimal edge-computed using the ALWAYS
mythical
> > > and illusory "perfect play".
> >
> > I don't see what mythical and illusory perfect play has to do with
it. If
> > the offers add more that 1% to the play, then NSUD is better,
regardless of
> > how good your skill is.
> >
> > Cogno
> >
>
> Exactly! This is the same clown that posts on LVA every time this
topic comes up. He seems to be offended by free play or point cash and
he thinks he is clever with his cute little "welfare checks" phrase.
I'm just a recreational player but I have never seen anyone get so
upset if someone uses free play or point cash when factoring their
return. It is comical indeed. I am not bothered one bit if he doesn't
like to factor that component in his return.
>

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

It ain't that hard, at least this particular comparison anyway. I'm a dullard and even I think it's pretty simple.

···

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: cognoscienti@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 07:02:48 -0700
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Fw: Irony at The Palms

Math is hard.

Cogno

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf
Of mike
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 5:47 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Fw: Irony at The Palms

I am not a "clown". You can continue to bang away forever on your NSUD
machines convincing yourself that your welfare check (a phrase used
long before I played my first VP) makes you a pro instead of an addict.
Personally I'll stick to the Palms FPDW which is over 101% all day
every day not just "on Wednesdays with months ending in Y between 2-3AM
if you knock 3 times on the ceiling and twice on the pipe"-which isn't
too far from some of these transient promotions.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "smallfish_61" <rsmalley2@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Cogno Scienti" <cognoscienti@> wrote:
> >
> > > I'd rather play FPDW progressive with the Palms .25% free play
with no
> > > other giveaways ANY day than the NSUD with the food coupons,
welfare
> > > checks, etc. that so many addicts (aka pro's) bang away on for
hours at
> > > a time, deluding themselves into thinking they are going to make
a
> > > living with their infinitesimal edge-computed using the ALWAYS
mythical
> > > and illusory "perfect play".
> >
> > I don't see what mythical and illusory perfect play has to do with
it. If
> > the offers add more that 1% to the play, then NSUD is better,
regardless of
> > how good your skill is.
> >
> > Cogno
> >
>
> Exactly! This is the same clown that posts on LVA every time this
topic comes up. He seems to be offended by free play or point cash and
he thinks he is clever with his cute little "welfare checks" phrase.
I'm just a recreational player but I have never seen anyone get so
upset if someone uses free play or point cash when factoring their
return. It is comical indeed. I am not bothered one bit if he doesn't
like to factor that component in his return.
>

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

it's 100.76% at reset not "over 101% all day every day." Better than NSUD not considering other promotions. A promotion over 1% makes NSUD better.

···

--- On Mon, 7/19/10, mike <melbedewy1226@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: mike <melbedewy1226@hotmail.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Fw: Irony at The Palms
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, July 19, 2010, 8:46 AM

Personally I'll stick to the Palms FPDW which is over 101% all day every day not just "on Wednesdays with months ending in Y between 2-3AM if you knock 3 times on the ceiling and twice on the pipe"-which isn't too far from >some of these transient promotions.

--- > >

> I don't see what mythical and illusory perfect play has to do with it. If
> the offers add more that 1% to the play, then NSUD is better, regardless of
> how good your skill is.
>
> Cogno
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

He's probably adding in the slot club 0.25% free slot play.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Robert Romanyshyn <bobfpdw@...> wrote:

it's 100.76% at reset not "over 101% all day every day."Â Â Better than NSUDÂ not considering other promotions. A promotion over 1% makes NSUD better.

Good point. I did not consider that.

···

--- On Fri, 7/23/10, vegasvpplayer <vegasvpplayer@gmail.com> wrote:
From: vegasvpplayer <vegasvpplayer@gmail.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Fw: Irony at The Palms
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, July 23, 2010, 8:47 PM
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Robert Romanyshyn <bobfpdw@...> wrote:

it's 100.76% at reset not "over 101% all day every day.">

He's probably adding in the slot club 0.25% free slot play.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Aren't the NSUD at the Palms excluded from being eligible for promotions?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Robert Romanyshyn <bobfpdw@...> wrote:

it's 100.76% at reset not "over 101% all day every day."Â Â Better than NSUDÂ not considering other promotions. A promotion over 1% makes NSUD better.

--- On Mon, 7/19/10, mike <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:

From: mike <melbedewy1226@...>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Fw: Irony at The Palms
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, July 19, 2010, 8:46 AM

Â

>Personally I'll stick to the Palms FPDW which is over 101% all day every day not just "on Wednesdays with months ending in Y between 2-3AM if you knock 3 times on the ceiling and twice on the pipe"-which isn't too far from >some of these transient promotions.

--- > >
> > I don't see what mythical and illusory perfect play has to do with it. If
> > the offers add more that 1% to the play, then NSUD is better, regardless of
> > how good your skill is.
> >
> > Cogno
> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That is correct.

Don the Dentist

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "caribou321" <caribou321@...> wrote:

Aren't the NSUD at the Palms excluded from being eligible for promotions?

My two cents worth....
  The problem is:
1. Casino people are not running the casinos. MBA's( bean counters)are .
2. The casinos are now publicly traded companies. This includes Stevie Boy who vowed after his "mistake" in taking Mirage Resorts public, that he would never do it again. Hah !
3. Many people ( including board members, look at the paytables on some of the jackpot pictures on VPFree and VPF2), will play short pay on a CONSISTENT LEVEL because they have to get their fix. What incentive do the casinos have to change paytables ?
4. Also, please remember, the VP community is a small percentage of the overall gambling community, except perhaps in LV local casinos. But that situation is a story for another day.

  Larry F.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "GilbertA" <gilrus47@...> wrote:

"Casinos sell fun." What happened to the gaming industry? The business executives that run the strip casinos have lost sight of what gamblers consider to be fun. This includes Wynn who use to know what to do to attract gamblers.

He vowed not to do it the same .

First time he lost control of the co due to "partners" not as smart as him nor with the same goals .

"They" wanted to borrow the money to build the bellagio rather than pay the bill out of cash flow. After it was built "they" wanted to borrow all the equity out of the company & let the income pay the note

Thats what station casinos & harrahs did later under the guise of goin private, that worked out well for them but not for their investors hasnt it?

  this time he made sure that he controlled the board with people who understood that they were investing in him & his talent and he kept a large portion of stock for himself.

full disclosure I have invested on Mr Wynn since the Golden Nugget ,
bought and sold his stock many times over the years. Thanks in large part to that my retirement is going to be real nice!

have posted a lot on this board on the subject of investing on casino stocks before. Still on the hook for Wynn hitting $200 a share, $174 close but no cigar,

Plz feel free to check out the prev posts

M J

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "lfcmja@..." <lfcmja@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "GilbertA" <gilrus47@> wrote:
>
>
2. The casinos are now publicly traded companies. This includes Stevie Boy who vowed after his "mistake" in taking Mirage Resorts public, that he would never do it again. Hah !