The Inn of the Mountain Gods in Ruidoso, NM (owned by the Mescalero-
Apache Indian Tribe)has 10 multi-play machines which has $1.00 Pick em
Poker. Their payout is Full-Pay. I am convinced that even though they
are full pay they are somehow internally programmed to negate the full
pay benefits. I have played them many times for 2-3 hour and have
NEVER experienced the frequencies expected on a truly random machine.
I and others have charted 9's or better and the average frequency is 1
in 15, not 1 in 4. 2 pair average frequency is 1 in 35, not 1 in 16,
etc. People who also play them regularily joke about never holding a
pair of 8's, you will never get the third one. We also joke about the
fact that if you have 4 cards to a flush, you usually will draw a card
that matches the discard but in a another unwanted suit.
For the first year or two I kept telling myself that these people are
not talented enough to manipulate the random table in these machines.
Could they have manipulated the machines or am I paranoid? or
both?
Full Pay Pick em Poker Question
Anything is possible, but gaffing reports normally result
from selective memory and/or insufficient or flawed data.
You should accept johnnyzee's offer to analyze your
data, and let us know the results.
vpFae
ยทยทยท
On 8 Nov 2007 at 5:10, dyess20002000 wrote:
The Inn of the Mountain Gods in Ruidoso, NM (owned by the Mescalero-
Apache Indian Tribe)has 10 multi-play machines which has $1.00 Pick em
Poker. Their payout is Full-Pay. I am convinced that even though they
are full pay they are somehow internally programmed to negate the full
pay benefits. I have played them many times for 2-3 hour and have
NEVER experienced the frequencies expected on a truly random machine.
I and others have charted 9's or better and the average frequency is 1
in 15, not 1 in 4. 2 pair average frequency is 1 in 35, not 1 in 16,
etc. People who also play them regularily joke about never holding a
pair of 8's, you will never get the third one. We also joke about the
fact that if you have 4 cards to a flush, you usually will draw a card
that matches the discard but in a another unwanted suit.
For the first year or two I kept telling myself that these people are
not talented enough to manipulate the random table in these machines.
Could they have manipulated the machines or am I paranoid? or
both?
dyess20002000:
> The Inn of the Mountain Gods in Ruidoso, NM (owned by the
> Mescalero-Apache Indian Tribe)has 10 multi-play machines which has
> $1.00 Pick em Poker. Their payout is Full-Pay. I am convinced that
> even though they are full pay they are somehow internally
> programmed to negate the full pay benefits. I have played them many
> times for 2-3 hour and have NEVER experienced the frequencies
> expected on a truly random machine.
> I and others have charted 9's or better and the average frequency
> is 1 in 15, not 1 in 4. 2 pair average frequency is 1 in 35, not 1
> in 16, etc.
> Could they have manipulated the machines or am I paranoid? or
> both?
vpFae wrote:
Anything is possible, but gaffing reports normally result
from selective memory and/or insufficient or flawed data.You should accept johnnyzee's offer to analyze your
data, and let us know the results.
I'm inclined to be dubious when it comes to gaffe suspicions, but
Indian gaming is a unique case. WA machines are known to be VLT-based
on an engine that doesn't simulate a natural card deck. Other tribal
jurisdictions bear examination in absence of regulatory oversight.
When it comes to a very frequently occurring hand such as a high pair,
you need gather very limited data to have good reason to suspect an
unfair machine. (I wouldn't consider such a machine necessarily
"gaffed" or manipulated with -- some machines aren't designed to be
random, although in fairness that should be amply disclosed.)
The anecdotal evidence reported by dyess (which runs way out on the
fringe of expectation for even just a handful of sessions), combined
with the venue, leads me to give reasonable credibility that he should
suspend play. (Frankly, my attitude is, gaffed or not, suspicion is
cause alone ... I couldn't draw satisfaction when losing if I had any
suspicion in the least that I might be being "had".)
- Harry