vpFREE2 Forums

From Where The Sun Now Stands

#1

Another fall from grace. There I was down in the dive bar downing shots of V.O. Chasing with beer. My buddy Pat walks in the bar and grabs a seat next to me.

"Mickey, how good is this Frank Kneeland and Bob Dancer."
"They're good, really good."
"How good are they compared to you?"
"Compared to me? I'm not in their league."
"Mickey, you told me you're the best in the world at what you do."
"Yeah, I am. But I'm not in Frank and Bobs league."
"How come?"
"I don't really care to be."
"So what can they do that you can't do?"
"Not a whole lot."
"What can you do that they can't do?"
"Well, I can take a $1000 bankroll and triple it in a week PLAYING MACHINES. I can do it every time, without fail. I doubt if they could do that."
"You can do it every time, without fail?"
"That's right, Pat. Every time. Without fail."
"Can I get some of that action?"
"No. It would take major action for me to prove it to somebody. More money than God can count for me to prove it. The problem is if anyone would made such a stupid bet with me that I couldn't do it is they would never trust me. They would want to watch every move I make. When they get to do that they get to see every trick I know. That's unacceptable to me. I would be teaching them all my tricks. So it would have to be a huge bet, Pat. The kind of money I don't have."
"How big a bet?"
"In the millions."
"So you think you're that good."
"I don't think it. I know it. I'd start 'em off with a ten day bet. I can triple a $1000 bankroll in ten days. I'd come in in about nine days on purpose. Just to let them think they have a chance. Then I'd do a Titanic Thompson on their asses. If they want to play double or nothing for five days I'll do it in four days. If they want to double it up for four days I'll do it in three days."
"Without fail?"
"Failure in not an option, Kid."
"How come you can pull that off, Mickey?"
"Because, Pat, from where the sun now stands I'm the best on this planet at what I do."

#2

From where the sun now stands. Do you think you are rough enough? Fo you think you are tough enough? From where the sun now stands

#3

From where the sun now stands.

#4

I'm ashamed to admit I don't know what V.O. is? So it appears Mickey has additional skills I lack. I certainly wouldn't challenge him to a drinking contest.

Take it easy there old boy, drinking killed my mother in the end, vpFREE wouldn't be the same without you.

~FK

#5

.....................................................
REPLY: The caption and text reminded me of two things.

(1) A story told by Ken Uston in one of his books. A hustler who hung out in the Jockey Club offered Uston slightly favorable proposition odds that he (the hustler) could call correctly (heads or tails) on a coin that Uston brought and flipped. The guy won so often that Uston stopped taking the bet. He never figured out how the guy did it. Anyone??

(2) The original "From where the sun now stands..." statement, attributed to Chief Joseph, though probably written or at least polished by a literate US Cavalry soldier. Whoever said/wrote it, it contains lessons for aging fighters, gamblers, and drinkers.

"I am tired of fighting. Our chiefs are killed; Looking Glass is dead, Too-hul-hul-sote is dead. The old men are all dead. It is the young men who say yes or no. He who led on the young men is dead. It is cold, and we have no blankets; the little children are freezing to death. My people, some of them, have run away to the hills, and have no blankets, no food. No one knows where they are — perhaps freezing to death. I want to have time to look for my children, and see how many of them I can find. Maybe I shall find them among the dead. Hear me, my chiefs! I am tired; my heart is sick and sad. From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever."

The GMan

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

"Well, I can take a $1000 bankroll and triple it in a week PLAYING MACHINES. I can do it every time, without fail. I doubt if they could do that."
"You can do it every time, without fail?"
"That's right, Pat. Every time. Without fail."

#6

This is the reason why, we don't play VP for a living. We can take $1k and turn it into $10 within 2 weeks.
However, to learn how, it would take at least a year and cost another enough for us to retire very well for life !
I LOVE playing VP and all of the tips, advice from those of you who are pro's. the stories are the greatest ! Thanks to all of you.
I won a whopping $202 last night at the Palms..hehe. I put $120 (as is my usual amount to start) into a VPDW machine, played for 2 hours and thankfully, I went strictly by Jeans trainer that I play a lot and wound up at $322. I had gotten to $470 and decided when it got down to a $202 profit, to let go and walk away joyful, having had fun and grateful for you all in this group :-)....not to mention, a chance to show off an Amazing new outfit..lol !

Men, you may not really 'get' that last sentence but, believe me, it matters and for me just brings to the outside the way that I feel inside.

Mickey, I love your true life stories, feel free to email me some that you have written at any time !

~ ¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•.¸ Meredith ¸.•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ ~
It's not what I do, but the way I do it. It's not what I say, but the way I say it.
                    Mae West

···

--- On Sat, 1/29/11, ggman444 <gleng4444@comcast.net> wrote:

From: ggman444 <gleng4444@comcast.net>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: From Where The Sun Now Stands
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 29, 2011, 1:47 AM

      --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

"Well, I can take a $1000 bankroll and triple it in a week PLAYING MACHINES. I can do it every time, without fail. I doubt if they could do that."

"You can do it every time, without fail?"

"That's right, Pat. Every time. Without fail."

.....................................................

REPLY: The caption and text reminded me of two things.

(1) A story told by Ken Uston in one of his books. A hustler who hung out in the Jockey Club offered Uston slightly favorable proposition odds that he (the hustler) could call correctly (heads or tails) on a coin that Uston brought and flipped. The guy won so often that Uston stopped taking the bet. He never figured out how the guy did it. Anyone??

(2) The original "From where the sun now stands..." statement, attributed to Chief Joseph, though probably written or at least polished by a literate US Cavalry soldier. Whoever said/wrote it, it contains lessons for aging fighters, gamblers, and drinkers.

"I am tired of fighting. Our chiefs are killed; Looking Glass is dead, Too-hul-hul-sote is dead. The old men are all dead. It is the young men who say yes or no. He who led on the young men is dead. It is cold, and we have no blankets; the little children are freezing to death. My people, some of them, have run away to the hills, and have no blankets, no food. No one knows where they are — perhaps freezing to death. I want to have time to look for my children, and see how many of them I can find. Maybe I shall find them among the dead. Hear me, my chiefs! I am tired; my heart is sick and sad. From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever."

The GMan

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

That was meant to be $10k (first sentence.)

~ ¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•.¸ Meredith ¸.•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ ~
It's not what I do, but the way I do it. It's not what I say, but the way I say it.
                    Mae West

···

--- On Sat, 1/29/11, Meredith And Kenny <meredithandkenny@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Meredith And Kenny <meredithandkenny@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: From Where The Sun Now Stands
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 29, 2011, 3:44 AM

This is the reason why, we don't play VP for a living. We can take $1k and turn it into $10 within 2 weeks.

However, to learn how, it would take at least a year and cost another enough for us to retire very well for life !

I LOVE playing VP and all of the tips, advice from those of you who are pro's. the stories are the greatest ! Thanks to all of you.

I won a whopping $202 last night at the Palms..hehe. I put $120 (as is my usual amount to start) into a VPDW machine, played for 2 hours and thankfully, I went strictly by Jeans trainer that I play a lot and wound up at $322. I had gotten to $470 and decided when it got down to a $202 profit, to let go and walk away joyful, having had fun and grateful for you all in this group :-)....not to mention, a chance to show off an Amazing new outfit..lol !

Men, you may not really 'get' that last sentence but, believe me, it matters and for me just brings to the outside the way that I feel inside.

Mickey, I love your true life stories, feel free to email me some that you have written at any time !

~ ¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•.¸ Meredith ¸.•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ ~

It's not what I do, but the way I do it. It's not what I say, but the way I say it.

                    Mae West

--- On Sat, 1/29/11, ggman444 <gleng4444@comcast.net> wrote:

From: ggman444 <gleng4444@comcast.net>

Subject: [vpFREE] Re: From Where The Sun Now Stands

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com

Date: Saturday, January 29, 2011, 1:47 AM

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

"Well, I can take a $1000 bankroll and triple it in a week PLAYING MACHINES. I can do it every time, without fail. I doubt if they could do that."

"You can do it every time, without fail?"

"That's right, Pat. Every time. Without fail."

.....................................................

REPLY: The caption and text reminded me of two things.

(1) A story told by Ken Uston in one of his books. A hustler who hung out in the Jockey Club offered Uston slightly favorable proposition odds that he (the hustler) could call correctly (heads or tails) on a coin that Uston brought and flipped. The guy won so often that Uston stopped taking the bet. He never figured out how the guy did it. Anyone??

(2) The original "From where the sun now stands..." statement, attributed to Chief Joseph, though probably written or at least polished by a literate US Cavalry soldier. Whoever said/wrote it, it contains lessons for aging fighters, gamblers, and drinkers.

"I am tired of fighting. Our chiefs are killed; Looking Glass is dead, Too-hul-hul-sote is dead. The old men are all dead. It is the young men who say yes or no. He who led on the young men is dead. It is cold, and we have no blankets; the little children are freezing to death. My people, some of them, have run away to the hills, and have no blankets, no food. No one knows where they are — perhaps freezing to death. I want to have time to look for my children, and see how many of them I can find. Maybe I shall find them among the dead. Hear me, my chiefs! I am tired; my heart is sick and sad. From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever."

The GMan

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

V.O. Whiskey is made by Seagram's. V.O stands for very old....like me. It's ten year old Canadien booze. All bars carry it. I've been trying hard, but after about 5 days on the wagon I can't stand myself. I got too much blood in my alcohol stream. I start feeling to good and the next thing I know I'm back in a dive bar.

I joke to people that my I.Q. goes about about 10 points with every drink. After 5 or six shots I'm the world's foremost authority....on any subject. You know, I had no trouble walking away from cocaine 32 years ago. But booze and cigarettes? That's a tough one.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

I'm ashamed to admit I don't know what V.O. is? So it appears Mickey >has additional skills I lack. I certainly wouldn't challenge him to a >drinking contest.

Take it easy there old boy, drinking killed my mother in the end, >vpFREE wouldn't be the same without you.

~FK

#9

V.O. was my Dads drink of choice, along with Beer as a chaser ? I never got that one, maybe Mickey can shed some light. V.O. is very good with a light soda (for me, diet sprite)..if I were to drink a cocktail with whiskey, it's the only one that I can drink. All of the others burn too much !
Bacardi & Diet Dr Pepper has always been my favorite or a shot of bacardi...However, in the past 2 years, I may have consumed in total 2 cups? of alcohol. It is hard to time between Morphine..lol.

~ ¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•.¸ Meredith ¸.•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ ~
It's not what I do, but the way I do it. It's not what I say, but the way I say it.
                    Mae West

···

--- On Sat, 1/29/11, Mickey <mickeycrimm@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Mickey <mickeycrimm@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: From Where The Sun Now Stands
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 29, 2011, 8:33 PM

      --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

I'm ashamed to admit I don't know what V.O. is? So it appears Mickey >has additional skills I lack. I certainly wouldn't challenge him to a >drinking contest.

Take it easy there old boy, drinking killed my mother in the end, >vpFREE wouldn't be the same without you.

~FK

V.O. Whiskey is made by Seagram's. V.O stands for very old....like me. It's ten year old Canadien booze. All bars carry it. I've been trying hard, but after about 5 days on the wagon I can't stand myself. I got too much blood in my alcohol stream. I start feeling to good and the next thing I know I'm back in a dive bar.

I joke to people that my I.Q. goes about about 10 points with every drink. After 5 or six shots I'm the world's foremost authority....on any subject. You know, I had no trouble walking away from cocaine 32 years ago. But booze and cigarettes? That's a tough one.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10

My way of tripling a $1000 bankroll is not quite so magical as the hustler Ken Uston ran into. I can do it but it would take me about 120 hours of scouting and playing. In other words the play has a very small bet to it, no downside risk, but doesn't have a very good hourly rate. That's the type of play one would have to have in order to pull off being able to triple $1000 every time.

After 19 years of experience I think I can say two things about myself:

1. I'm not very good at getting rich at gambling. I've never had a bankroll over $60,000. This mostly has to do with laziness. Trust me, I'm a lazy kind of guy. I only need so much money to live. I never let my living expenses get above $1000 a month. I never buy anything on credit. If I can't pay cash for it I don't want it. The bar tab is actually my biggest bill, or at least it has been, but I'm working on cutting that down.

2. I'm damn good at not going broke. This is actually my biggest feat in gambling. I just don't go broke. I don't care how far down I spend my bankroll I have "no risk grind out plays" like the one described above to bounce back with.

At least I can say all this "from where the sun now stands." The one constant in gambling is "everything changes." Just like one's position around the sun.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:

"Well, I can take a $1000 bankroll and triple it in a week PLAYING >MACHINES. I can do it every time, without fail. I doubt if they could >do that."
"You can do it every time, without fail?"
"That's right, Pat. Every time. Without fail."

"ggman444: wrote:
REPLY: The caption and text reminded me of:

(1) A story told by Ken Uston in one of his books. A hustler who >hung out in the Jockey Club offered Uston slightly favorable >proposition odds that he (the hustler) could call correctly (heads >or tails) on a coin that Uston brought and flipped. The guy won so >often that Uston stopped taking the bet. He never figured out how >the guy >did it. Anyone??

#11

Now for the Titanic Thompson type of play....tripling a $1000 bankroll in 5 days. How can I do it every time? Well, I can only do it everytime if someone like Frank and Bob made a very big bet that I couldn't do it. There would have to be a very big reward for me. Because there would be at least a $5000 "behind the scene" investment.

I would personally only play three or four machines and triple the $1000 in just a few hours. There's a type of advantage slot out there that gets very little action these days. It's found on multi-game machines. The game has pretty much run it's course and the suckers just don't play it anymore. But at one time the game was a money maker for a good machine pro that knew how to read the bonus feature.

The bonus feature has a 3000 game cycle, with variance. 5 events have to occur to get the bonus. The frequency of each event is 600 games, with variance. The events get banked and when you get the fifth event you get a progressive meter that starts at $100. The meter runs at 4%. There's a qualifier on the bet. There is a mininum amount you have to bet to get the meter. But you can bet up to 4 times that amount. Of course, the best bet for the machine pro is the minimum amount it takes to get the meter.

So Bob and Frank make this big bet with me that I can't triple the $1000 in such a short period of time. I send agents in to play the game described above. They play at max bet until they bank four of the events. Then they decrease the bet to just below the minimum bet it takes to get the meter. The purpose of this is to keep driving the meter up. The meter maxes at $750. Once they get the meter maxed they swith to another game and sit there betting a nickel at a time.

An agent see's Bob and Frank and me approaching the door of the casino and calls the agent on the machine. The agent on the machine hits the cashout button as Bob and Frank and me walk down the row. He gets up and I grab the seat.

The game plays on turbo at 1500 GPH. So I'll snap the $750 meter off in about a half hour at an expected cost of $60. Now here's the thing. Bob and Frank are gonna know they been had in a New York Minute. It won't take those two sharp cats very long to analyze what I'm doing. So at that point we can all bust out laughing....or I'll do all the laughing while they're crying.

The agent who was outside when we came in is now on a machine behind me watching everything. When he see's me snap the meter off he calls the agent on the next row, telling him I'll be approaching his machine in a minute or two, so get ready to cash out.

And when I snap that meter off...well you know the rest.

#12

I read that the hustler in this story did eventually tell Uston how he did the trick. But I'll let other people who haven't read about this story guess first.

EE

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ggman444" <gleng4444@...> wrote:

(1) A story told by Ken Uston in one of his books. A hustler who hung out in the Jockey Club offered Uston slightly favorable proposition odds that he (the hustler) could call correctly (heads or tails) on a coin that Uston brought and flipped. The guy won so often that Uston stopped taking the bet. He never figured out how the guy did it. Anyone??

#13

If it's the story I'm thinking about, it wasn't a true "hustle", right? He won legitimately, at least from the standpoint that he wasn't "cheating".

···

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: eecounter@hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:06:43 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: From Where The Sun Now Stands

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ggman444" <gleng4444@...> wrote:

(1) A story told by Ken Uston in one of his books. A hustler who hung out in the Jockey Club offered Uston slightly favorable proposition odds that he (the hustler) could call correctly (heads or tails) on a coin that Uston brought and flipped. The guy won so often that Uston stopped taking the bet. He never figured out how the guy did it. Anyone??

I read that the hustler in this story did eventually tell Uston how he did the trick. But I'll let other people who haven't read about this story guess first.

EE

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#14

That's correct.

EE

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, David Silvus <djsilvus@...> wrote:

If it's the story I'm thinking about, it wasn't a true "hustle", right? He won legitimately, at least from the standpoint that he wasn't "cheating".

#15

Super 8 Race?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

There's a type of advantage slot out there that gets very little action these days. It's found on multi-game machines.

#16

No, Super 8 Race hasa 2.777% meter

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:
>There's a type of advantage slot out there that gets very little action these days. It's found on multi-game machines.

Super 8 Race?

#17

And I think I put the chances of catching all fruit at 20,000 in Super 8 Race. On Super 8 Liner I think I put the chances of catching all fruit at 4100. This reminds me of a funny story. When I was on the Ely Joker play the slot techs changed all the IGT machines to multi denom....from one penny on up. There were ten machines that had Super 8 Liner. So I'm playing Super 8 Liner betting 8 cents and chasing $150 and $200 meters. I had the game on turbo. It took me about 20 hours to snap the meters off on those ten machines.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@> wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:
> >There's a type of advantage slot out there that gets very little action these days. It's found on multi-game machines.

> Super 8 Race?

#18

I think I will see if I can find a place to get a VO and ginger ale on my next visit to Vegas. I'll sip on that, think of Mickey's stories, and smile....

Dave

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Meredith And Kenny <meredithandkenny@...> wrote:

V.O. was my Dads drink of choice, along with Beer as a chaser ? I never got that one, maybe Mickey can shed some light. V.O. is very good with a light soda (for me, diet sprite)..if I were to drink a cocktail with whiskey, it's the only one that I can drink. All of the others burn too much !