Wanted to get feedback on whether anyone has won anything big while playing a relative or friend's free play? Did you hand over all the proceeds especially if taxes are involved?
free play
Never. Taxable done on my I.D. So why would they even need to know?
···
On Jun 29, 2010, at 9:30 PM, "midorinish" <midorinish@gmail.com> wrote:
Wanted to get feedback on whether anyone has won anything big while playing a relative or friend's free play? Did you hand over all the proceeds especially if taxes are involved?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The law on tax liability is thee who pulls the handle or makes the wager is responsible. The card in the game makes no difference.
···
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Di <ddale321@aol.com>
Sender: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 20:09:08
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com<vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] free play
Never. Taxable done on my I.D. So why would they even need to know?
On Jun 29, 2010, at 9:30 PM, "midorinish" <midorinish@gmail.com> wrote:
Wanted to get feedback on whether anyone has won anything big while playing a relative or friend's free play? Did you hand over all the proceeds especially if taxes are involved?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Perhaps I'm dating myself, but I was raised to believe there was a certain amount of honor among gamblers. Not that I have the slightest hesitation to bluff, mislead, or do anything else against a poker opponent. But if a friend or relative gives you a Jackson or a Franklin to put through the VP machine, I wouldn't do anything else but honestly give them whatever the proceeds of the wagers might be. Depending on who it was, I might even tell them we broke even or had a small win.
If they asked me to play a horse, and I made a mistake and bet the wrong horse or failed to place the bet because through my own fault I got to the track too late, and their horse won, I'd pay them what they would have won. If the horse lost, and I didn't place the bet for some reason, I'd give them their money back, and we'd have a good laugh at "fate".
If someone gave me free play to use, I would tell them upfront that, at worst, we would be partners on any profits. If they declined after I offered, that's one thing, Even if they'd declined, if it were a decent amount, I'd at least buy a dinner if they refused the money. But winning & not sharing, that sucks.
Just MHO.
Guru
P.S. Even if it were a taxable event, I'd take out the taxes, and at least split the rest.
Certainly the game is rigged. Don’t let that stop you; if you don’t bet, you can’t win. -Lazarus Long
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is. -Yogi Berra
There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe. -Robert Heinlein
···
________________________________
From: Di <ddale321@aol.com>
To: "vpFREE@yahoogroups.com" <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, June 30, 2010 11:09:08 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] free play
Never. Taxable done on my I.D. So why would they even need to know?
On Jun 29, 2010, at 9:30 PM, "midorinish" <midorinish@gmail.com> wrote:
Wanted to get feedback on whether anyone has won anything big while playing a relative or friend's free play? Did you hand over all the proceeds especially if taxes are involved?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Actually the law is that whoever is getting the money from the jackpot has
the tax liability. Casinos will try to make you sign a form that states
"under penalty of perjury I am the sole beneficiary of this win." There is
an IRS form 5754 that is used when that is not the case, but good luck
getting slot operations to cooperate.
Cogno
···
-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf
Of Scott Hendrickson
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 8:19 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] free playThe law on tax liability is thee who pulls the handle or makes the
wager is responsible. The card in the game makes no difference.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T-----Original Message-----
From: Di <ddale321@aol.com>
Sender: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 20:09:08
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com<vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] free playNever. Taxable done on my I.D. So why would they even need to know?
On Jun 29, 2010, at 9:30 PM, "midorinish" <midorinish@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wanted to get feedback on whether anyone has won anything big while
playing a relative or friend's free play? Did you hand over all the
proceeds especially if taxes are involved?
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
"The law on tax liability is thee who pulls the handle or makes the wager is responsible."
The above is not absolutely true if you mean that the person who pulls the handle has to pay all the taxes and is the only one who can report the win;
it is possible to divide a winning amount amongst various players.
You may want to go back and review the archives and tax law on this topic.
···
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: scottandkellyh@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 03:18:59 +0000
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] free playThe law on tax liability is thee who pulls the handle or makes the wager is responsible. The card in the game makes no difference.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T-----Original Message-----
From: Di <ddale321@aol.com>
Sender: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 20:09:08
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com<vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] free playNever. Taxable done on my I.D. So why would they even need to know?
On Jun 29, 2010, at 9:30 PM, "midorinish" <midorinish@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wanted to get feedback on whether anyone has won anything big while playing a relative or friend's free play? Did you hand over all the proceeds especially if taxes are involved?
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Playing on a friend's free play is a good way to have comps and offers discontinued for both you and your friend if caught.
If doing this kind of thing, you don't want to talk about it.
···
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: midorinish@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 04:30:41 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] free playWanted to get feedback on whether anyone has won anything big while playing a relative or friend's free play? Did you hand over all the proceeds especially if taxes are involved?
------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You are correct, several people can split a jackpot if you claim it together. You can also be an "agent" in some cases where you make a wager for someone. I was referring to having a friends promo or card in and who would be liable for the taxes. I realized after this was maybe more of a moral question than a legal question.
Sender: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
···
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: kelso 1600 <kelso1600@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 11:54:53
To: <vpfree@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] free play/tax liability
"The law on tax liability is thee who pulls the handle or makes the wager is responsible."
The above is not absolutely true if you mean that the person who pulls the handle has to pay all the taxes and is the only one who can report the win;
it is possible to divide a winning amount amongst various players.
You may want to go back and review the archives and tax law on this topic.
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: scottandkellyh@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 03:18:59 +0000
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] free playThe law on tax liability is thee who pulls the handle or makes the wager is responsible. The card in the game makes no difference.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T-----Original Message-----
From: Di <ddale321@aol.com>
Sender: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 20:09:08
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com<vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] free playNever. Taxable done on my I.D. So why would they even need to know?
On Jun 29, 2010, at 9:30 PM, "midorinish" <midorinish@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wanted to get feedback on whether anyone has won anything big while playing a relative or friend's free play? Did you hand over all the proceeds especially if taxes are involved?
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kelso 1600 wrote:
Playing on a friend's free play is a good way to have comps and
offers discontinued for both you and your friend if caught.
If doing this kind of thing, you don't want to talk about it.
Generally sound advice. A player should be well aware that anytime that they step outside strict play boundaries (for example, most casinos have prohibition against play on another's card) you place benefits and privileges at risk.
But, in practice, I get the feeling that sanctions are taken against only the most egregious (or, sometimes, the most visible) violators.
As anecdote, a couple of years ago I had a friend visiting from out of town who played on a casino's attractive "new member" promotion. They weren't able to put through the full play for which they were eligible to earn accelerated benefits and I continued on their card after their departure.
Luck was strong that day and I hit a RF above the w-2G threshold. I decided to pull their card and simply present my DL when the attendant arrived, saying "I wasn't using my card". The entire transaction was handled without a "hick up". (But, of course, there was always a chance for some friction.)
If my wife wins a jackpot with my player's card (our accounts are not linked) in the machine while I take a break, will the casino still pay or can the casino negate the win?
···
Wanted to get feedback on whether anyone has won anything big while
playing a relative or friend's free play? Did you hand over all the
proceeds especially if taxes are involved?
Singer just stated he let someone play his card at one place and got all sorts of bonuses. Didn't seem to bother him.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_wiz" <harry.porter@...> wrote:
kelso 1600 wrote:
> Playing on a friend's free play is a good way to have comps and
> offers discontinued for both you and your friend if caught.
> If doing this kind of thing, you don't want to talk about it.Generally sound advice. A player should be well aware that anytime that they step outside strict play boundaries (for example, most casinos have prohibition against play on another's card) you place benefits and privileges at risk.
But, in practice, I get the feeling that sanctions are taken against only the most egregious (or, sometimes, the most visible) violators.
As anecdote, a couple of years ago I had a friend visiting from out of town who played on a casino's attractive "new member" promotion. They weren't able to put through the full play for which they were eligible to earn accelerated benefits and I continued on their card after their departure.
Luck was strong that day and I hit a RF above the w-2G threshold. I decided to pull their card and simply present my DL when the attendant arrived, saying "I wasn't using my card". The entire transaction was handled without a "hick up". (But, of course, there was always a chance for some friction.)
The casino will pay; it would be highly unusual for a casino to refuse payment. The question is whether you are willing to risk being "no mailed" as a result of playing on someone elses card. In the past, most casinos were lenient with couples playing on each other's card, many casinos now are saying "no more".
···
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: fishflopper@yahoo.com
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 04:06:48 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: free playIf my wife wins a jackpot with my player's card (our accounts are not linked) in the machine while I take a break, will the casino still pay or can the casino negate the win?
> Wanted to get feedback on whether anyone has won anything big while
> playing a relative or friend's free play? Did you hand over all the
> proceeds especially if taxes are involved?------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fishflopper" <fishflopper@...> wrote:
If my wife wins a jackpot with my player's card (our accounts are
not linked) in the machine while I take a break, will the casino
still pay or can the casino negate the win?
As Kelso writes, playing on anyone else's card risks running afoul of the casino. But, in practice, between spouses it's very unlikely to be a problem.
The bottom line is that the casino can't really refuse to pay a jackpot won form a legitimate wager. What's really at risk are peripheral benefits arising from card use/promotions.
Our own experience is that Bev and I have often hit while playing on the other's card in AC and on the LV Strip and never run into a hitch.
Because I prefer that casino win/loss records tie loosely to casino's card play history, we try to arrange for the person who had their card in the machine to take the w2-G. Sometimes that's meant a call to the room or coffee shop to retrieve the spouse. Casino never balked at the delay of waiting for the non-playing spouse to sign.
When the spouse whose card is in the machine isn't available, the player just presents their own player card or ID and takes the win. In our experience, the casino transfers over the win in their records so that year-end win/loss statement reasonably tie. (If that spouse wasn't a player at all in the casino that day, they probably end up taking a "0" trip for their ADT.)
There's been the occasional tale of a casino withholding a win when won on a non-present spouse's card until that person can show to sign for it. We've never encountered that.
They key area where I could see a casino getting picky about play on another player's card (including spouse) is where a limited invitation promotion is involved. This could include new-member promotions, or other ones where the motivation for play on another's card could be because you yourself is excluded from the event. I don't know of any actual stories with players I personally know, but Dancer did relate something along these lines recently.
I can also envision this scenario, especially from tourists.
Someone leaves their card in and the tourist comes by, plays
and wins. I cannot see how casino can penalize this player
who unwittingly played with an unknown person's card in
the machine.
···
________________________________
From: vp_wiz <harry.porter@verizon.net>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 9:17:41 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: free play
Fishflopper" <fishflopper@...> wrote:
If my wife wins a jackpot with my player's card (our accounts are
not linked) in the machine while I take a break, will the casino
still pay or can the casino negate the win?
As Kelso writes, playing on anyone else's card risks running afoul of the casino. But, in practice, between spouses it's very unlikely to be a problem.
The bottom line is that the casino can't really refuse to pay a jackpot won form a legitimate wager. What's really at risk are peripheral benefits arising from card use/promotions.
Our own experience is that Bev and I have often hit while playing on the other's card in AC and on the LV Strip and never run into a hitch.
Because I prefer that casino win/loss records tie loosely to casino's card play history, we try to arrange for the person who had their card in the machine to take the w2-G. Sometimes that's meant a call to the room or coffee shop to retrieve the spouse. Casino never balked at the delay of waiting for the non-playing spouse to sign.
When the spouse whose card is in the machine isn't available, the player just presents their own player card or ID and takes the win. In our experience, the casino transfers over the win in their records so that year-end win/loss statement reasonably tie. (If that spouse wasn't a player at all in the casino that day, they probably end up taking a "0" trip for their ADT.)
There's been the occasional tale of a casino withholding a win when won on a non-present spouse's card until that person can show to sign for it. We've never encountered that.
They key area where I could see a casino getting picky about play on another player's card (including spouse) is where a limited invitation promotion is involved. This could include new-member promotions, or other ones where the motivation for play on another's card could be because you yourself is excluded from the event. I don't know of any actual stories with players I personally know, but Dancer did relate something along these lines recently.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<They key area where I could see a casino getting picky about play on another player's card (including spouse) is where a limited invitation promotion is involved.>>
An example would be a marathon play.
···
________________
Jean $�ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/
My wife has hit hand pay jackpots twice while using my card. Not a word was said either time by those issuing the pay and W2G.
Last month were stayed at Golden Nugget on a comp and $100 free play. While activating the free play, the club person helping us asked if I wanted two cards so my wife could also use the free play while I was playing. It seems that they don't really care.
Kurt
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_wiz" <harry.porter@...> wrote:
They key area where I could see a casino getting picky about play on another player's card (including spouse) is where a limited invitation promotion is involved.
<<Someone leaves their card in and the tourist comes by, plays
and wins. I cannot see how casino can penalize this player
who unwittingly played with an unknown person's card in
the machine. >>
I have NEVER heard of anyone being denied a jackpot because the wrong card was in the machine when it hit, whatever the reason for that. However, it can cause delays or problems. Once in a long while a casino will make up the W2-G, using the card information from their computer, before they come out to check who is playing the machine. They usually aren't happy about having to go through the paperwork of voiding that one and making out one for the person whose butt was in the machine chair when the jackpot hit. And it is never good to appear on a casino's radar with a negative event.
Policies vary on how much leeway is given in this area. Brad and I have been playing on the other's card quite often - like when we don't want to ruin both of our daily averages - and hit a taxable. Some casinos, especially when we are playing "on a board", will allow us to keep just that one board and have just one accumulating W2-Gs, no matter which of us hits the jackpot. However, they usually want that person to do all the signing. If the board is in Brad's name, and when they come for signing, Brad is, say, gone to the restroom, they usually will wait for him to come back if it is going to be only a few minutes.
However, some casinos are very strict. They don't mind if the "wrong" card is in the machine, but the person who is sitting in the seat gets the W2-G.
And, as has been pointed out, a few casinos are getting very skittish and therefore are becoming more strict and might take away peripheral benefits.
As has been posted here, some casinos have gone so far as to close slot club accounts when someone is found to be picking up free play for someone else - and perhaps even doing it also for the person whose free play is being picked up. I have heard of this happening only to two people who are not married or related or who don't have the same address. But that doesn't mean it hasn't happened to couples.
With casinos in such dire financial straits these days, it behooves us all to be extra careful. I never thought I would see the time when casinos would target skilled VP players so ferociously!!!!
···
________________
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/
I was doing a friends freeplay along with mine. I had $60, they had $40. Prior to playing I told them I would combine our results and I would get 60% of the wins or take 60% of the losses. This helps to lower the swings.
The thought of me losing $20 on my freeplay and then hitting $1000 on my friends and me having to hand over $1000 bothered me. So that is why I do a prorated split of all monies.
As luck or skill would have it, I hit a $1000 royal while playing on MY card. Thus I handed over $400 to my friend when we met up.
I have heard others simply give their friends the EV of the play and then pocket the wins or eat the losses so as not to have to do as much accounting work. So if they were doing $100 of free play for a friend, they would give them $99.54 or $99 or $100 no matter if they won $1000 or lost the entire $100.
Doing freeplay now for others has become risky as some people are being told they cannot play at a given casino anymore. So doing this now is not encouraged.
On a different note, I signed up at the Venetian when it was new and got $5 in freeplay if I played $25 coin in. That was 20 hands on JOB 25 cent. So I played and hit a $1000 royal on hand #14. Luckily Sheldon could afford the hit at the time.
My GF plays my card all the time. She has hit jackpots with my card in the machine, and all they've done is make the W2G under her name.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Fishflopper" <fishflopper@...> wrote:
If my wife wins a jackpot with my player's card (our accounts are not linked) in the machine while I take a break, will the casino still pay or can the casino negate the win?
> Wanted to get feedback on whether anyone has won anything big while
> playing a relative or friend's free play? Did you hand over all the
> proceeds especially if taxes are involved?