vpFREE2 Forums

Free Play and Won Loss Statements

Harry,

I got my MGM Mirage win-loss statement for 2007. This statement is inclusive
of all properties in their system. I know that there are a number of these
where I've only played my free play through and took the remaining proceeds
out as cash. Although I don't keep as accurate records as I should have, I do
know that they MUST be including the net proceeds on the win-loss statement.

Under their system, you must "prime" the machine with an amount of cash
equal to one bet that you'd make with comparable free play (i.e. $1 VP would be a
$5 bet if you played single line full coin). I'm assuming that the initial
cash infusion is considered your "starting coin" and the net you receive after
cashing out would be considered win.

I also checked my Harrah's statement for last year and it seems to reflect
in a similar way. For example, I was at Harrah's Rincon only once last year and
part of the offer included $50 in free play. I played this off with two full
coin bets on a $5 VP machine and didn't cash for anything. On the statement
is a $50 loss from Harrah's Rincon.

FWIW, this is causing me to rethink the method of converting MGM Mirage
Holiday Gift points later this year. In 2007, I converted these to free play at a
rate of 30K points ($90K coin in on VP) to $100 free play. I realize now that
when I do this, the net proceeds from this hits my win-loss statement. This
was just over $3K in my case which is no small consideration. Perhaps for
this year I'll convert the points to gift cards which I'll sell on ebay and then
play with "my" cash. In this way, only the net amount cashed out would be
included on the win-loss. Even allowing a 10-12% discount on the gift cards
from face value would still be better if someone were in the 20%+ tax bracket.

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BJDan1961 wrote:

Harry,
I got my MGM Mirage win-loss statement for 2007 ... I know that there
are a number of these where I've only played my free play through
and took the remaining proceeds out as cash ... I do know that they
MUST be including the net proceeds on the win-loss statement.

Under their system, you must "prime" the machine ... I'm assuming
that the initial cash infusion is considered your "starting coin" and
the net you receive after cashing out would be considered win.

I also checked my Harrah's statement for last year and it seems to
reflect in a similar way.

I earlier wrote, "I know of no casino that includes player cash
incentives in it's win/loss statement -- be it free play, cashback,
cash bonuses, etc."

While I have ample experience with the receipt of cashback, and cash
incentives aside from Free Play, from which to go on to suggest that
most casinos don't report these, I have very limited experience with
Free Play.

We now have two anecdotes indicating the Free Play is included in the
win/loss statement, as is the win/loss experience in playing it off.
The net result is that your reported win/loss is increased by the net
proceeds from the Free Play.

- Harry