gee i didnt see any apologies to Rob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
FPDW @ Wynn LV
that's ok as i don't think he reads the board...he evidently just
sends an e-mail to the admin every once in awhile...and sometimes they
have some truth to them...
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, baggitt15@a... wrote:
gee i didnt see any apologies to Rob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
baggitt15@aol.com wrote:
gee i didnt see any apologies to Rob
Quite right. I'll cough one up: I was wrong, Rob was right. I'm should not have been so quick to doubt him. But, speaking of doubt, I doubt I'll ever be able to get a seat on these machines before they yank them out.
John
I would choose this weekend to get out of town and enjoy a non-gaming
long weekend...oh well...hope they last 'til Monday.
Don the Dentist
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, John Kelly <jwkelly@f...> wrote:
But, speaking of doubt, I doubt
I'll ever be able to get a seat on these machines before they yank
> them out.
John
they have some truth to them...
Nah, Rob reads everything, he just doesn't post. And what he doesn't
read, Cardfather sends him.
So, even though I'm a coupla hundred miles away from Macy's and 34th St,
Rob: You are the Greatest! A thousand pardons! Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa,
Mea Culpa. Hail Mary, full of Grace......(repeated three times but
shortened due to condideration of Tom's bandwith).
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "irdd3000" <irdd@n...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, baggitt15@a... wrote:
> gee i didnt see any apologies to Rob
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]that's ok as i don't think he reads the board...he evidently just
sends an e-mail to the admin every once in awhile...and sometimes
gee i didnt see any apologies to Rob
NONE is needed ,dont you think for a minute he had anything to do
with the games being offered. He was tipped off by a friend at best,
more likely he is being used as a shill by WYNN because of his GT gig.
Which is fine by me since i still own some stock.
M J
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, baggitt15@a... wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
baggitt15@a... wrote:
> gee i didnt see any apologies to RobQuite right. I'll cough one up: I was wrong, Rob was right. I'm
should
not have been so quick to doubt him. But, speaking of doubt, I doubt
I'll ever be able to get a seat on these machines before they yank
them out.
John
John, John, John ... I'm surprised at you. The "EV" for doubting was
WAY higher than the "EV" for believing ... and it's STILL higher.
And, when the FPDW/DB get downgraded next week, it'll be either "the
players got lucky" or "Wynn accomplished its goal."
2-W
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, John Kelly <jwkelly@f...> wrote:
John, John, John ... I'm surprised at you. The "EV" for doubting was WAY higher than the "EV" for believing ... and it's STILL higher.
And, when the FPDW/DB get downgraded next week, it'll be either "the players got lucky" or "Wynn accomplished its goal."
2-W
LOL. Well, since I was in the neighborhood anyway, I just stopped by the Wynn and took a look for myownself. No big surprise:
Yes, the nine machines are indeed there in all their glory. No, you cannot get a seat on any of them any time in the foreseeable future. Yes, the game being played on every single one is FPDW at the dollar level. Yes, I did recognize every single face there; one bank is being monopolized by very familiar Oriental family, and the other is locked up by a couple of extremely familiar husband-wife teams and friends. And no, there are no other machines with similar pay schedules.
It's weird: this is simaltaniously the biggest VP event of the year, and totally irrelevant. To borrow from the "if a tree falls in the forest but makes no sound" analogy: If there was $1 FPDW in the forest and you can't possibly play it, was it ever really there?
John
Also an interesting thought. There is a lot of talk about "Perfect
Play" Last time I checked humans were not perfect we make mistakes. No
matter how hard we try, no matter how well we know something, we do
screw up now and then. Tiger Woods has <gasp> sliced the ball now and
then, Chuck Yeager missed a few landings and had to do a go around,
and yes Bob Dancer, Rob Singer, and every other professional VP player
has hit the wrong button. What we don't know is how this at the end of
the day moves the 100%+ payback on the machine. Holding the 9 of
spades when you went to hold the ace of clubs in a 4 to a RF and
pulling the last card for the RF that you just blew will cause the
smacking of the head against the machine many times while going
"Stupid, stupid, stupid." Most of the time it wont matter that much
but the point is the same.
At the end of the day, I think *most* (not all) people on this list
play for fun (myself included), and at the end of the day does 99.5%
vs. 100.77% REALLY matter when you are enjoying yourself. I know the
Let it ride tables at the Caesars will give me a much lesser payback
then the 9/6 JOB they have. But I do enjoy playing it all the same.
Education like life is a journey not a destination. Enjoy the trip,
thats the important thing.
-Dave
Against Abortion?--Don't Have One
Against Guns?--Don't Buy One
Against Hunting?--Don't Hunt
Free Choice-an American Invention
Patented July 4, 1776
> John, John, John ... I'm surprised at you. The "EV" for doubting was
> WAY higher than the "EV" for believing ... and it's STILL higher.
>
> And, when the FPDW/DB get downgraded next week, it'll be either "the
> players got lucky" or "Wynn accomplished its goal."
>
> 2-WLOL. Well, since I was in the neighborhood anyway, I just stopped by
the
Wynn and took a look for myownself. No big surprise:
Yes, the nine machines are indeed there in all their glory. No, you
cannot get a seat on any of them any time in the foreseeable future.
Yes, the game being played on every single one is FPDW at the dollar
level. Yes, I did recognize every single face there; one bank is being
monopolized by very familiar Oriental family, and the other is
locked up
by a couple of extremely familiar husband-wife teams and friends. And
no, there are no other machines with similar pay schedules.It's weird: this is simaltaniously the biggest VP event of the year,
and
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, John Kelly <jwkelly@f...> wrote:
totally irrelevant. To borrow from the "if a tree falls in the forest
but makes no sound" analogy: If there was $1 FPDW in the forest and you
can't possibly play it, was it ever really there?John
>> At the end of the day, I think *most* (not all) people on this
list
play for fun (myself included)
and at the end of the day does 99.5
vs. 100.77% REALLY matter when you are enjoying yourself . (?)
To most of us on this list,yes it MATTERS, thats why we are on this
list, its much more fun & enjoyable to be at 100.77% than 99.5% plus
more profitable , if you wont put in the effort, cant make sure that
button did not stick , thats your problem,
Education like life is a journey not a destination. Enjoy the trip,
thats the important thing.
Learning is the important thing, how else can it be enjoyed??
MJ
-Dave
Against Abortion?--Don't Have One have 2
Against Guns?--Don't Buy One buy me 1 more
Against Hunting?--Don't Hunt,just shoot
Free Choice-an American Invention
Patented July 4, 1776
AMEN
>
> > John, John, John ... I'm surprised at you. The "EV" for
doubting was
> > WAY higher than the "EV" for believing ... and it's STILL
higher.
> >
> > And, when the FPDW/DB get downgraded next week, it'll be
either "the
> > players got lucky" or "Wynn accomplished its goal."
> >
> > 2-W
>
> LOL. Well, since I was in the neighborhood anyway, I just stopped
by
the
> Wynn and took a look for myownself. No big surprise:
> Yes, the nine machines are indeed there in all their glory. No,
you
> cannot get a seat on any of them any time in the foreseeable
future.
> Yes, the game being played on every single one is FPDW at the
dollar
> level. Yes, I did recognize every single face there; one bank is
being
> monopolized by very familiar Oriental family, and the other is
locked up
> by a couple of extremely familiar husband-wife teams and friends.
And
> no, there are no other machines with similar pay schedules.
>
> It's weird: this is simaltaniously the biggest VP event of the
year,
and
> totally irrelevant. To borrow from the "if a tree falls in the
forest
> but makes no sound" analogy: If there was $1 FPDW in the forest
and you
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "dsfeuer" <dave.feuer@g...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, John Kelly <jwkelly@f...> wrote:
> can't possibly play it, was it ever really there?
>
> John
To most of us on this list,yes it MATTERS, thats why we are on this
list, its much more fun & enjoyable to be at 100.77% than 99.5% plus
more profitable , if you wont put in the effort, cant make sure that
button did not stick , thats your problem,
You could be correct, as for myself I want to have fun.
I will still stand behind my statement that over time we all will make
mistakes while playing. With some luck they will not cost us that
much. Although as a stock holder in many casinos I win either way 
Also, when I was in the Showboat in AC in July I STILL saw people
playing the 7/5 JOB when there were open 9/6 machines. At the end of
the day if Wynn puts in 12/10 150% payback JOB machines or something
as silly poeple will still dump money into the 8/5 machine sitting
next to it.
Learning is the important thing, how else can it be enjoyed??
True
-Dave
Against Abortion?--Don't Have One
Against Guns?--Don't Buy One
Against Hunting?--Don't Hunt
Free Choice-an American Invention
Patented July 4, 1776
It's weird: this is simaltaniously the biggest VP event of the year,
and totally irrelevant. To borrow from the "if a tree falls in the
forest but makes no sound" analogy: If there was $1 FPDW in the forest
and you can't possibly play it, was it ever really there?
John
···
===========================================================
Wynn may want the publicity but I can't see the .50, $ level lasting
too long. It defeats the purpose of attracting players. Those nine
folks playing the dollar deuces are strong players and are going to
just kill those two banks of machines. I have a very good friend
staying at the Wynn on 9/1. He's so excited to be able to play $1 DB
and DDB. Perhaps if he gets out of bed at 3am he might get a machine
but until the $ FPDW is gone, I don't see it happening.
dsfeuer wrote:
Also an interesting thought. There is a lot of talk about "Perfect
Play" Last time I checked humans were not perfect we make mistakes
... What we don't know is how this at the end of the day moves the
100%+ payback on the machine.
No doubt, to err is human. However, a reasonably disciplined player
(and I'm certainly not talking about "expert" performance here) can
reliably keep the cost of their errors to modest levels.
My wife, for example, a very casual player who is far from intense
about play, manages to keep WinPoker/FVP practice error cost to less
than .3% on most games; less than .1% on Jacks. I have every reason
to believe that her performance in the casino achives a comparable
accuracy level.
At the end of the day, I think *most* (not all) people on this list
play for fun (myself included), and at the end of the day does 99.5%
vs. 100.77% REALLY matter when you are enjoying yourself.
Recreation is what it's about, as you suggest. But those who are
particularly sensitive to the downside of play are indeed sensitive to
a full 1% reduction in return. Are you suggesting that, all other
things being equal, that you'd be indifferent if the RF payout on your
favorite machine were cut in half?
A 1% difference in expected return will mean, over time, a
considerable difference in net play win/loss with strong reliability.
- Harry
Would I be indifferent, no not at all, I would care a lot. Would I
stop playing, no.
Why?
Lets use standard #'s here: 9/6 JOB $1 coin. 300hph royal every 45000
hands. 45000/300 = 150 hours of play. Say 4 trips to LV a year for me
@ 5 days each = 20 days and 5 day trips to AC say I play about 6 hours
a day (high #) in LV so thats 120 hours and 6 hours a day on the day
trips to AC. thats 30 hours total 150 hours or abour 1 royal a year.
So the cost of a RF going from 4K to 2K would be $2000 a year for me.
A heck of a lot of money, that I would not like to loose. Now
$2000/150 hours is $13.33 cost per hour of play lost. Also a large
number, on top of an already negative game. Lets see some other costs
of things I enjoy.
Broadway Show $100 for 2 hour show $50 per hour.
Good seats for the Mets, 3 hour game $15 per hour not including parking.
Good seats for the Yankees, too damn much so we skip this one.
Concert Tix: at least $75 for good ones $25 per hour
I figure my motorcycle costs about .10 a mile to run not including
gas. It gets about 30 to the gallon so @ 60 mph I'm buring 2 gallons
an hour so at todays prices = $5.00 plus the $6.00 for general running
cost = $11.00 I should just spend more time on my bike
Drinking at a bar with friends $15 hour / easily more with food.
Movie w/ popcorn & soda $20 (at least) $10 an hour. Plus the cost of
the brain cells lost watching Adam Sandler for 90 minutes.
So, in the long run the 1% would suck to be sure but, it would still
cost about the same or still a lot less of things I like to do. YMMV,
but as I said, I am the casinos dream come true, I go for the
entertainment value, I expect to loose. I have even been known to
play <gasp> roulette. Some people here will think I should be taken
out back and shot for this point of view. So be it.
-Dave
Against Abortion?--Don't Have One
Against Guns?--Don't Buy One
Against Hunting?--Don't Hunt
Free Choice-an American Invention
Patented July 4, 1776
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...> wrote:
Recreation is what it's about, as you suggest. But those who are
particularly sensitive to the downside of play are indeed sensitive to
a full 1% reduction in return. Are you suggesting that, all other
things being equal, that you'd be indifferent if the RF payout on your
favorite machine were cut in half?A 1% difference in expected return will mean, over time, a
considerable difference in net play win/loss with strong reliability.- Harry
dsfeuer wrote:
Would I be indifferent, no not at all, I would care a lot. Would I
stop playing, no.
Ok, I get where you're coming from.
You estimate your annual play (in the example you constructed) as
being about 45,000 hands. That's moderately light recreational play
and I can understand that the variation in results introduced by a 1%
ER shift may not represent an earthshattering impact when weighed
against other indirect trip-related economic factors.
For a player such as myself, who is both an avid and fast player
(playing 5 or 6 days a month on average), the prospect of 300K-400K
hands played in a year at a 1% reduced ER can be reliably expected to
be at a significant cost.
Like you, I wouldn't stop. But you can expect that my play would be
curtailed sharply to a level where, likewise, the financial impact is
of much smaller consequence.
- Harry
If a person ever loses a 4 to a royal, they are Stupid, stupid,
stupid(Just copying what is below). I personally stop hold the cards,
triple check the hold, hold my breath and push draw/deal. I never
lost one. I usually triple check 3-to a royal as well as this is
usually the correct play in All American even over high pairs. Now I
suppose that a stray cosmic ray might hit the machine in the
nanosecond before I hit the deal/draw button,...
In it for the fun, and 100.7 AA is really fun,
dipy911
···
the day moves the 100%+ payback on the machine. Holding the 9 of
spades when you went to hold the ace of clubs in a 4 to a RF and
pulling the last card for the RF that you just blew will cause the
smacking of the head against the machine many times while going
"Stupid, stupid, stupid." Most of the time it wont matter that much
but the point is the same.
Rastis thinks this is much ado about nothing also. The machines will be gone
before Labor Day. The same players that destroyed the quarter machines will
eliminate the dollar machines. Too much money is available from book
advances, appearance fees and retirement accounts to make these babies last
the month. The only question we need to ask, "Are they gone yet?"
···
-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
John Kelly
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 4:27 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: FPDW @ Wynn LV
John, John, John ... I'm surprised at you. The "EV" for doubting was
WAY higher than the "EV" for believing ... and it's STILL higher.And, when the FPDW/DB get downgraded next week, it'll be either "the
players got lucky" or "Wynn accomplished its goal."2-W
LOL. Well, since I was in the neighborhood anyway, I just stopped by the
Wynn and took a look for myownself. No big surprise:
Yes, the nine machines are indeed there in all their glory. No, you
cannot get a seat on any of them any time in the foreseeable future.
Yes, the game being played on every single one is FPDW at the dollar
level. Yes, I did recognize every single face there; one bank is being
monopolized by very familiar Oriental family, and the other is locked up
by a couple of extremely familiar husband-wife teams and friends. And
no, there are no other machines with similar pay schedules.
It's weird: this is simaltaniously the biggest VP event of the year, and
totally irrelevant. To borrow from the "if a tree falls in the forest
but makes no sound" analogy: If there was $1 FPDW in the forest and you
can't possibly play it, was it ever really there?
John
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
YA THINK??? Rastis highly recommends the Poker Room. Most of the locals
are still swimming with the Bellagio Fish (at least at the $4/8 tables). The
last time Rastis played video poker Tom had jet black hair!
···
-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
John Kelly
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 1:20 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: FPDW @ Wynn LV
But, speaking of doubt, I doubt
I'll ever be able to get a seat on these machines before they yank them out.
John