vpFREE2 Forums

FPDW progressive strategy modifications?

#1

This is my first posting, so I hope I am doing this correctly.

I have a question!

There are a few FPDW progressive machines in Las Vegas plus maybe a
4700 FPDW machine. I am wondering if anyone has worked out what
RF payouts are high enough to alter the advanced strategy by Bob
Dancer. Obviously no modifications are made if you have a
deuce.

I assume that 4700 ($1175) is enough to make simple alterations like
eliminating the Dancer book's appendix C when considering suited KQ,
KJ, or KT with no penalties.

But how high does the progressive have to be to hold RF3 over a
SF4? Analyzing this hand using WinPoker, I feel it does not
require a very high jackpot to make this modification.

Any help here would be greatly appreciated.
      
Is it possible to calculate this using WinPoker?

#2

Since you already have winpoker, you could use the change paytable function under options and monkey around with the numbers until you spot a change.
Use the analyze hand function to check for changes. Another option would be to get a copy of VPSM and create incremental strategy charts.
I would suggest you try increasing the payoff by 350 coins a pop and see where that takes you.
Welcome to vpFREE, your first post was a fine one.

Regards
A.P.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: edmoderiii
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 10:07 AM
  Subject: [vpFREE] FPDW progressive strategy modifications?

  This is my first posting, so I hope I am doing this correctly.

  I have a question!

  There are a few FPDW progressive machines in Las Vegas plus maybe a
  4700 FPDW machine. I am wondering if anyone has worked out what
  RF payouts are high enough to alter the advanced strategy by Bob
  Dancer. Obviously no modifications are made if you have a
  deuce.

  I assume that 4700 ($1175) is enough to make simple alterations like
  eliminating the Dancer book's appendix C when considering suited KQ,
  KJ, or KT with no penalties.

  But how high does the progressive have to be to hold RF3 over a
  SF4? Analyzing this hand using WinPoker, I feel it does not
  require a very high jackpot to make this modification.

  Any help here would be greatly appreciated.
        
  Is it possible to calculate this using WinPoker?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

Thanks A.P.!!

I am working with your idea right now and have found some
interesting modifications. For starters, when the RF jackpot is
4700 ($1175), break SF4 -1 to hold a RF3, at least in the example of
(K-clubs, Q-clubs, J-clubs, 9-clubs, low unsuited card). Hold SF4
+0 instead of RF3. It takes a jackpot of 5500 ($1375) to break
the SF4 +0 and hold only the RF3. But even though progressive
jackpots can exceed $1200 at the Palms, I suspect people leave when
it rolls over that number as you are now looking at a W2-G, which
can be a real hassle, especially if you do it in December and have
not saved any losing receipts all year long.

Even if you are in the 15% tax bracket, 100% of $1175 is still more
than 85% of $1375. If you are in a higher bracket, you can do
the math. I'll take the $1175 thank you! LOL

Ed

Since you already have winpoker, you could use the change paytable

function under options and monkey around with the numbers until you
spot a change.

Use the analyze hand function to check for changes. Another option

would be to get a copy of VPSM and create incremental strategy
charts.

I would suggest you try increasing the payoff by 350 coins a pop

and see where that takes you.

Welcome to vpFREE, your first post was a fine one.

Regards
A.P.
  From: edmoderiii
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 10:07 AM
  Subject: [vpFREE] FPDW progressive strategy modifications?

  This is my first posting, so I hope I am doing this correctly.

  I have a question!

  There are a few FPDW progressive machines in Las Vegas plus

maybe a

  4700 FPDW machine. I am wondering if anyone has worked out

what

  RF payouts are high enough to alter the advanced strategy by Bob
  Dancer. Obviously no modifications are made if you have a
  deuce.

  I assume that 4700 ($1175) is enough to make simple alterations

like

  eliminating the Dancer book's appendix C when considering suited

KQ,

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Albert Pearson" <a-p@s...> wrote:

  ----- Original Message -----
  KJ, or KT with no penalties.

  But how high does the progressive have to be to hold RF3 over a
  SF4? Analyzing this hand using WinPoker, I feel it does not
  require a very high jackpot to make this modification.

  Any help here would be greatly appreciated.
        
  Is it possible to calculate this using WinPoker?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

I am wondering if anyone has worked out what
RF payouts are high enough to alter the advanced strategy by Bob Dancer.

Some years ago, I worked up all of the hands that I could think of. If you
plug in some of the royal amounts on your WinPoker software that are on my
list and play with them, you will see which changes are more important than
the others. Within reason, I included all of them, with the exception of
those that would require a royal amount that I felt would not be seen on
these games. For example, to be mathematically correct to drop a suited 9
for 9,T,J s, you would need a royal over $4,300.00 in a quarter game. Also,
keep in mind that on some of these hands, if you make the wrong play a
hundred times, you wont ding your wallet for the cost of a cup of coffee.
All that being said, here is the chart.

$1,036.50 T,Js>7,T,Js w Q no 8 ex A discard
$1,039.00 T,Qs & J,Qs w/0 P>ST4i
$1,064.00 T,Js>7,T,Js w A & K discard
$1,071.50 T,Qs&J,Qs>4,5,8s&4,6,8s
$1,090.25 T,Q,Ks>9,T,Q,Ks
$1,090.25 J,Q,Ks>9,J,Q,Ks
$1,144.00 T,Js>7,T,Js w Q no 8 w A discard
$1,146.50 T,Qs & J,Qs w P & 8,9/A,Kdc>ST4i
$1,151.50 T,Qs&J,Qs>5,7,9s
$1,226.50 T,Qs & J,Qs w P & 8T/9K/TAdc>ST4i
$1,259.00 T,Qs & J,Qs >5,8,9s
$1,308.00 T,Js>3,4,5s
$1,334.00 T,J,Q,Ks>2,T,J,Q,Ks
$1,339.00 J,Qs >6,8,Ts
$1,350.25 J,Q,K,As>O.W.R.'s
$1,360.25 J,Qs>8,J,Qs
$1,361.25 T,Qs>8,T,Qs
$1,369.00 T,J,Qs>9,T,J,Qs w/o A dc
$1.389.00 T,J,Qs>9,T,J,Qs w A dc
$1,555.25 TK,JK,QKs>4,6,8s
$1,570.25 TK,JK,QKs>ST 4i
$1,570.25 KT,KJ,KQs>A hi 4 cd STi w/o p
$1,677.75 KT,KJ,KQs>A hi 4 cd STi w ST p
$1,682.75 TK,JK,QKs>5,7,9s
$1,757.75 KT,KJ,KQs>A hi 4 cd STi w FL p
$1,769.00 3-cd Q Hi ROY>TRIPS
$1,779.00 T,J,Qs>8-Q Hi ST wT,J,Qs
$1,789.00 3-cd Q Hi ROY w/o STFL 4i>FLUSH
$1,880.25 3-cd K Hi ROY>TRIPS
$1,890.25 J,Q,Ks>9-K Hi ST wJ.Q,Ks
$1,900.25 3-cd K Hi ROY w/o STFL 4i>FLUSH
$1,971.50 T,Ks-Q,Ks>9,T,Ks -9,Q,Ks
$1,991.50 3-cd A Hi ROY>TRIPS
$1,991.50 Q,K,As>T-A Hi ST wQ,K,As
$2,011.50 3-cd A Hi ROY w/o STFL 4i>FLUSH
$2,096.75 T.Js>6,7,9s
$2,101.50 AT,AJ,AQ,AKs>A hi 4 cd STi w/o p
$2,129.00 T,Js>4,5,7s & 4,6,7s
$2,209.00 T,Js>5,6,8s
$2,289.00 AT,AJ,AQ,AKs>A hi 4 cd Sti w FL p
$2,529.00 T,Js>8,T,Js

If anyone notices an error, please let me know. Also, in case my
abbreviations are not clear, here is a guide.

Ex=except
w/o p= without penalties
T,Qs=Ten,Queen suited

=greater than

w P=with penalty
dc=discards
ST4i=straight 4 inside
O.W.R.=other wild royals
STFL 4i=straight flush 4 inside
3-cd=3 card
FL p=flush penalty

Or, if all of this seems to complex, just hold the little ones that say WILD
on them :-).
                                      Nudge

···

From: "edmoderiii" <edmoderiii@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] FPDW progressive strategy modifications?

#5

Thanks a lot Nudge,

I will work on this over the weekend. I am going to Las Vegas
Tuesday, so I am practicing and want to have all available info.

Ed

From: "edmoderiii" <edmoderiii@y...>
Subject: [vpFREE] FPDW progressive strategy modifications?

> I am wondering if anyone has worked out what
> RF payouts are high enough to alter the advanced strategy by

Bob Dancer.

Some years ago, I worked up all of the hands that I could think

of. If you

plug in some of the royal amounts on your WinPoker software that

are on my

list and play with them, you will see which changes are more

important than

the others. Within reason, I included all of them, with the

exception of

those that would require a royal amount that I felt would not be

seen on

these games. For example, to be mathematically correct to drop a

suited 9

for 9,T,J s, you would need a royal over $4,300.00 in a quarter

game. Also,

keep in mind that on some of these hands, if you make the wrong

play a

hundred times, you wont ding your wallet for the cost of a cup of

coffee.

All that being said, here is the chart.

$1,036.50 T,Js>7,T,Js w Q no 8 ex A discard
$1,039.00 T,Qs & J,Qs w/0 P>ST4i
$1,064.00 T,Js>7,T,Js w A & K discard
$1,071.50 T,Qs&J,Qs>4,5,8s&4,6,8s
$1,090.25 T,Q,Ks>9,T,Q,Ks
$1,090.25 J,Q,Ks>9,J,Q,Ks
$1,144.00 T,Js>7,T,Js w Q no 8 w A discard
$1,146.50 T,Qs & J,Qs w P & 8,9/A,Kdc>ST4i
$1,151.50 T,Qs&J,Qs>5,7,9s
$1,226.50 T,Qs & J,Qs w P & 8T/9K/TAdc>ST4i
$1,259.00 T,Qs & J,Qs >5,8,9s
$1,308.00 T,Js>3,4,5s
$1,334.00 T,J,Q,Ks>2,T,J,Q,Ks
$1,339.00 J,Qs >6,8,Ts
$1,350.25 J,Q,K,As>O.W.R.'s
$1,360.25 J,Qs>8,J,Qs
$1,361.25 T,Qs>8,T,Qs
$1,369.00 T,J,Qs>9,T,J,Qs w/o A dc
$1.389.00 T,J,Qs>9,T,J,Qs w A dc
$1,555.25 TK,JK,QKs>4,6,8s
$1,570.25 TK,JK,QKs>ST 4i
$1,570.25 KT,KJ,KQs>A hi 4 cd STi w/o p
$1,677.75 KT,KJ,KQs>A hi 4 cd STi w ST p
$1,682.75 TK,JK,QKs>5,7,9s
$1,757.75 KT,KJ,KQs>A hi 4 cd STi w FL p
$1,769.00 3-cd Q Hi ROY>TRIPS
$1,779.00 T,J,Qs>8-Q Hi ST wT,J,Qs
$1,789.00 3-cd Q Hi ROY w/o STFL 4i>FLUSH
$1,880.25 3-cd K Hi ROY>TRIPS
$1,890.25 J,Q,Ks>9-K Hi ST wJ.Q,Ks
$1,900.25 3-cd K Hi ROY w/o STFL 4i>FLUSH
$1,971.50 T,Ks-Q,Ks>9,T,Ks -9,Q,Ks
$1,991.50 3-cd A Hi ROY>TRIPS
$1,991.50 Q,K,As>T-A Hi ST wQ,K,As
$2,011.50 3-cd A Hi ROY w/o STFL 4i>FLUSH
$2,096.75 T.Js>6,7,9s
$2,101.50 AT,AJ,AQ,AKs>A hi 4 cd STi w/o p
$2,129.00 T,Js>4,5,7s & 4,6,7s
$2,209.00 T,Js>5,6,8s
$2,289.00 AT,AJ,AQ,AKs>A hi 4 cd Sti w FL p
$2,529.00 T,Js>8,T,Js

If anyone notices an error, please let me know. Also, in case my
abbreviations are not clear, here is a guide.

Ex=except
w/o p= without penalties
T,Qs=Ten,Queen suited
>=greater than
w P=with penalty
dc=discards
ST4i=straight 4 inside
O.W.R.=other wild royals
STFL 4i=straight flush 4 inside
3-cd=3 card
FL p=flush penalty

Or, if all of this seems to complex, just hold the little ones

that say WILD

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nudge51" <nudge51@c...> wrote:

on them :-).
                                      Nudge