vpFREE2 Forums

FPDW at Wynn

Assuming this is true, we should start an "over-under" pool on how long the
$1 FPDW will last before the team play vultures kill it off.

- Brian in MI

I got a call from the VP of slots this morning. There's 9 machines up
and running. Each is 25c/50c/$1 8/5 BP, 9/6 JB, 10/7 DB, FPDW, &10/6
DDB, and they are exactly as I specified. There will be no signs over
them (they'll hardly be needed), and a memo is going out tonight to all
floor personnel as to the locations of the machines, so when customers
ask they can direct.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

there's probably a win limit in place, once you hit it you're 86'd from vp

Assuming this is true, we should start an "over-under" pool on how

long the

$1 FPDW will last before the team play vultures kill it off.

- Brian in MI

> I got a call from the VP of slots this morning. There's 9 machines up
> and running. Each is 25c/50c/$1 8/5 BP, 9/6 JB, 10/7 DB, FPDW, &10/6
> DDB, and they are exactly as I specified. There will be no signs over
> them (they'll hardly be needed), and a memo is going out tonight

to all

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Marksalot300@a... wrote:

> floor personnel as to the locations of the machines, so when customers
> ask they can direct.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yesterday someone had two royals on the FPDW in TEN hands!!!! He quit soon after that - said it just wasn't a challenge anymore!!! :slight_smile:

···

________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  for VP software and strategy cards.
  NEW - Blackjack Strategy Cards +
              Updated Second Edition of
             "The Frugal Gambler."

$100/hour (ER + cashback + comps ???)
10 machines (rounding up)
25 hours/day (rounding up)
400 days per year (rounding up)

Bottom line $10 million

bl

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@y...>
wrote:

···

$100/hour (ER + cashback + comps ???)
10 machines (rounding up)
25 hours/day (rounding up)
400 days per year (rounding up)

Bottom line $10 million

bl

***************************************************************
$28/hour (er)+ $10 cb @ .25 rate +$10 comp @ .25 rate=$48 /hour
9 machines = $432
24 hours= $10,368
365 days=$3,794,688 a year

thats for 800 hands an hour, 4k coin in an hour & assuming comp rate
same as cb & assuming PERFECT play.

at about $10 mil a month profit for the casino thats about 11 ? days
hit to the bottom line for publicity that may last longer than the
machines, plus the amount of $ lost by family & friends the 9 players
at time bring in, plus $ lost by players waiting to play,

Mr Wynn is a friggin genuis
M J

P S You all still think Singer had somthin to do with it???

A couple of questions:
Does anyone REALLY buy the publicity angle? If WYNN put the games in for marketing purposes, why doesn't it advertise it in the LVRJ, instead of having (if you believe it) a third party post it on an Internet group that is probably read by 95% of the smart players in town and 4,000 visitors who will never get to see them? I don't get it. What happened (All APs All The Time) was inevitable and the folks at WYNN had to know it. So why would they want that?

Other casinos have had dollar deuces fairly recently (Harvey's LT, Silver Legacy, Harrah's Reno come to mnd) that went away shortly after they become widely known on the Net, but I never noticed the slightest bit of residual good will - maybe even the opposite. Do we really think it will happen here? "I love them so much for putting in those dollar deuces for the local wise guys last month, I'm going to book my next 3 vacations there!" OK, if you say so.

I don't claim to know the secret, but none of the explanations I've heard yet sound too logical. Here's something I received this privately a few minutes ago:
"has anyone considered that this may be a trap? they obviously know what a great play that this is. hopefully someone has figured out that this is a $40/hr or so play. and those people who show up day in and day out are going to get booted where the local who shows up plays it for a little while and doesn't come back day after day will be allowed to play? wynn gets best of both worlds: advertise fpdw and get rid of the pros. they can't be this stupid to put in a play like this w/o an ulterior motive? or can they?"

I don't know whether it's a "trap" (or more accurately, according to this theory, a "filter") or not, but the folks at WYNN are NOT stupid. This is not the Westin Casuarina. They have to have a good reason for this little experiment. (Oh, I forgot - it was because Rob Singer told them too. )

Has anyone started that pool on how long they'll last? I'd like $5 on a week from today. But I have to admit my crystal ball has been a little murky lately.<g>

P.S. I heard (from an eyewitness) that someone hit two royals on one of these - ten minutes apart.
Skip

Thanks!
Skip
http://www.vpinsider.com

Skip Hughes wrote:

Does anyone REALLY buy the publicity angle? ...

Yep. Bev and I have been agitating over the prospect of playing 'til
we puke our guts out each day so that we score the $90K coin-in/night
that'll reportedly get us RFB! (delivered to the machine bank in
designer doggie bags, no doubt)

Here's something I received this privately a few minutes ago:
"has anyone considered that this may be a trap?" ...

I don't know whether it's a "trap" or not, but the folks at WYNN
are NOT stupid. This is not the Westin Casuarina. They have to have
a good reason for this little experiment.

Right. This short-term run will definitely screen out the folks who
otherwise are sitting pretty over in a Bellagio suite weeks at a time
playing Jacks. (The comps presumably are the attraction, the cb
certainly isn't).

···

------------

My take on this: Someone over at Wynn got a tickle in their brain one
night that maybe they know something that no one else on the Strip
knows (nor Coast, for that matter, when it comes to their quarter
players).

Reportedly they received some encouragement (or possibly, inspiration)
from Singer. In the context of this move by the casino, I have
absolutely no reason to doubt this.

I give them 2 weeks before they acknowledge that they're getting
hammered by players who know what they're doing. (Make that 4 weeks
if the individual is blinded by an ego the size of a house.)

But hey, maybe in the meantime this lark will prompt Coast to
reexamine why they can't pull this off in quarters if Wynn can do it
in bucks.

- H.

Hi Skip

Hmmm....publicity angle? I remember the old days when Frontier had 2
$1, 4 - 50 cent and lots of 25 cent deuces. I based out of Frontier
and deuces were a little cash cow for me, not to mention the 6
coiners. If I watched, many of the deuces players, at that time,
played not so good. So, worst case, house broke even. Even in Wynn
case I believe house will not lose on this bank. Enough below par
players will play to even things out. Only problem; better players
will take money down road. But, then again, maybe many of these
players will be sports betters or do other type gaming. Maybe they
bring a regular slot player with them? So the few machines lose a few
$$. In a place like that if a couple hundred players come by to get a
seat, guess what? They play some other gaming while waiting. Furthur
study might indicate it's good business to give the customer a good
gamble. It wouldn't surprise me if Wynn goes back to basics and
discovers a hot new idea; give the customer a good gamble.

Then again......Maybe it's a trap?

Cheers....Jeep

A couple of questions:
Does anyone REALLY buy the publicity angle? If WYNN put the games

in for

marketing purposes, why doesn't it advertise it in the LVRJ,

instead of

having (if you believe it) a third party post it on an Internet

group

that is probably read by 95% of the smart players in town and 4,000
visitors who will never get to see them? I don't get it. What

happened

(All APs All The Time) was inevitable and the folks at WYNN had to

know

it. So why would they want that?

Other casinos have had dollar deuces fairly recently (Harvey's LT,
Silver Legacy, Harrah's Reno come to mnd) that went away shortly

after

they become widely known on the Net, but I never noticed the

slightest

bit of residual good will - maybe even the opposite. Do we really

think

it will happen here? "I love them so much for putting in those

dollar

deuces for the local wise guys last month, I'm going to book my

next 3

vacations there!" OK, if you say so.

I don't claim to know the secret, but none of the explanations I've
heard yet sound too logical. Here's something I received this

privately

a few minutes ago:
"has anyone considered that this may be a trap? they obviously

know

what a great play that this is. hopefully someone has figured out

that

this is a $40/hr or so play. and those people who show up day in

and

day out are going to get booted where the local who shows up plays

it

for a little while and doesn't come back day after day will be

allowed

to play? wynn gets best of both worlds: advertise fpdw and get

rid of

the pros. they can't be this stupid to put in a play like this w/o

an

ulterior motive? or can they?"

I don't know whether it's a "trap" (or more accurately, according

to

this theory, a "filter") or not, but the folks at WYNN are NOT

stupid.

This is not the Westin Casuarina. They have to have a good reason

for

this little experiment. (Oh, I forgot - it was because Rob Singer

told

them too. )

Has anyone started that pool on how long they'll last? I'd like $5

on a

week from today. But I have to admit my crystal ball has been a

little

murky lately.<g>

P.S. I heard (from an eyewitness) that someone hit two royals on

one of

···

-- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Skip Hughes <skiphughes@e...> wrote:

these - ten minutes apart.
Skip

Thanks!
Skip
http://www.vpinsider.com

Yesterday someone had two royals on the FPDW in TEN hands!!!! He

quit soon

after that - said it just wasn't a challenge anymore!!! :slight_smile:
________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  for VP software and strategy cards.
  NEW - Blackjack Strategy Cards +
              Updated Second Edition of
             "The Frugal Gambler."

What he doesn't get is luck got him the Royals. Stategy kept him
alive until luck found him. Luck has nothing to do with challenge.
Playing at 100% is the challenge. Was this post really from Jean Scott?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@f...> wrote:

Hey! What do you want?

I was within a factor 10!

That's astrophysical accuracy.

And, I was able to do it on my fingers!

LOL

bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mklpryy24" <mklpryy24@y...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@y...>
wrote:
> $100/hour (ER + cashback + comps ???)
> 10 machines (rounding up)
> 25 hours/day (rounding up)
> 400 days per year (rounding up)
>
> Bottom line $10 million
>
> bl
***************************************************************
$28/hour (er)+ $10 cb @ .25 rate +$10 comp @ .25 rate=$48 /hour
9 machines = $432
24 hours= $10,368
365 days=$3,794,688 a year

thats for 800 hands an hour, 4k coin in an hour & assuming comp rate
same as cb & assuming PERFECT play.

at about $10 mil a month profit for the casino thats about 11 ? days
hit to the bottom line for publicity that may last longer than the
machines, plus the amount of $ lost by family & friends the 9 players
at time bring in, plus $ lost by players waiting to play,

Mr Wynn is a friggin genuis
M J

P S You all still think Singer had somthin to do with it???

Skip:

If you watched his interview on Vegas Inc. the other day he might have tipped his hand as to why?

He made the following statements. His take is 20% of gaming revenues regardless of wins or losses. He also mentioned the need to increase revenues due to daily operating expenses of his casino. Increased revenues lead to increased profits. I believe this is an experiment to increase revenues. Even though the pros are playing them constantly, eventually as the word spreads it should increase bookings as well as restaurants, etc..

Al

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Skip Hughes
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 4:44 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] FPDW at Wynn

  I don't know whether it's a "trap" (or more accurately, according to
  this theory, a "filter") or not, but the folks at WYNN are NOT stupid.
  This is not the Westin Casuarina. They have to have a good reason for
  this little experiment. (Oh, I forgot - it was because Rob Singer told
  them too. )

  Thanks!
  Skip
  http://www.vpinsider.com

  vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Al Marek wrote:

If you watched his interview on Vegas Inc. the other day he might have
tipped his hand as to why?
He (Wynn) made the following statements. His take is 20% of gaming
revenues regardless of wins or losses. ed]

This statement appears rather improbable. Are you sure that this
wasn't a reference to NET gaming revenue (after wins have been paid).

H.

Just back from the Wynn, several items of interest.
1) While we couldn't get on the machines right away, after about 20 minutes the only two tourist on the banks left and we leaped in. Played for about 3 hours; won a whopping $65 (plus about $50 freeplay and lots more munchies). One seat was vacant for about an hour. So it's not impossible to play.
2) A major clue to the "what's the angle???" question: At one point, after a couple of hours play, two suits and a technician walked up behind us and watched us play. After about 20 seconds, the technician said "It's a beautiful thing". The suits (both about 30 years old, I think) murmured approval, and the trio ambled on toward the Red 8 bank.
What "a beautiful thing" means is open to debate, but after we all exhaled and discussed it and the group consenus was that the trio was quite smugly satisfied with the results of their little experiment. Take that to mean what you will.
3) The buffet and coffee shop are terrific.

Harry:

I'm not exactly sure how it was worded other than he mentioned the 20% and he was not worried about wins or losses.

Al

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Harry Porter
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 7:16 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re: FPDW at Wynn

  Al Marek wrote:
  > If you watched his interview on Vegas Inc. the other day he might have
  > tipped his hand as to why?
  > He (Wynn) made the following statements. His take is 20% of gaming
  > revenues regardless of wins or losses. ed]

  This statement appears rather improbable. Are you sure that this
  wasn't a reference to NET gaming revenue (after wins have been paid).

  H.

  vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<<What he doesn't get is luck got him the Royals. Strategy kept him
alive until luck found him. Luck has nothing to do with challenge.
Playing at 100% is the challenge. Was this post really from Jean Scott?>>

Yes, it was really from me - and it was supposed to be funny. Notice the smiley face. This person who hit the two royals is a very knowledgeable pro - he was just jokingly rubbing it in to the rest of us who hadn't hit even one.

<< Yesterday someone had two royals on the FPDW in TEN hands!!!! He
quit soon

···

after that - said it just wasn't a challenge anymore!!! :slight_smile:

________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  for VP software and strategy cards.
  NEW - Blackjack Strategy Cards +
              Updated Second Edition of
             "The Frugal Gambler."

I caught this interview (they also interviewed Gary Loveman of
Harrahs) and Wynn did reference 20%. But when these guys use a 20%
hold figure, they are speaking of the percent of bankroll a player
brings that they expect to keep. In my junket days of the 80's,
several hosts confirmed that if I had a credit line (or front money)
of "x" dollars, the casino counted on my losing 20% of x during my
stay.

I don't remember if it was the same program (since about every third
show on TV is about Vegas, gambling or live poker), but on MSNBC a
commentator provided some gambling advice for the viewer. The best
choice is slots which has only a 6% hold. The holds for blackjack,
craps, baccarat and keno ranged from 10% to 20%. The ignorance of
these reporters and their producers is mind boggling.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:

Al Marek wrote:
> If you watched his interview on Vegas Inc. the other day he might

have

···

> tipped his hand as to why?
> He (Wynn) made the following statements. His take is 20% of gaming
> revenues regardless of wins or losses. ed]

This statement appears rather improbable. Are you sure that this
wasn't a reference to NET gaming revenue (after wins have been paid).

H.

I saw this program also and was shocked by Wynn's claim of retaining
20% of all casino action combined...and that is what he claimed e.g.
if on any given day 100 million is bet on table games and slots
combined, he expects to keep 20 million. Even slots don't generally
hold more than 10-12%, according to gaming commission records.

What chief says below makes more sense...perhaps someone should
explain ev and hold to Wynn!

I caught this interview (they also interviewed Gary Loveman of
Harrahs) and Wynn did reference 20%. But when these guys use a 20%
hold figure, they are speaking of the percent of bankroll a player
brings that they expect to keep. In my junket days of the 80's,
several hosts confirmed that if I had a credit line (or front

money)

of "x" dollars, the casino counted on my losing 20% of x during my
stay.

I don't remember if it was the same program (since about every

third

show on TV is about Vegas, gambling or live poker), but on MSNBC a
commentator provided some gambling advice for the viewer. The best
choice is slots which has only a 6% hold. The holds for blackjack,
craps, baccarat and keno ranged from 10% to 20%. The ignorance of
these reporters and their producers is mind boggling.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:
> Al Marek wrote:
> > If you watched his interview on Vegas Inc. the other day he

might

have
> > tipped his hand as to why?
> > He (Wynn) made the following statements. His take is 20% of

gaming

> > revenues regardless of wins or losses. ed]
>
> This statement appears rather improbable. Are you sure that this
> wasn't a reference to NET gaming revenue (after wins have been

paid).

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "chiefvrwc" <chiefvrwc@c...> wrote:

>
> H.

I agree that "reporters and their producers" are not the brightest
bulbs in the bunch. I do not ever remember being quoted totally
correctly in any interview I have had with one. However, the "level
of gambling expertise" of the average LV visitor is nothing to write
home about either. Thus, the figures quoted, for the average
visitor and his/her losses, may actually range from 10% to 20% when
they are playing table games, probably worse.

How many of us have friends that say: "I have x dollars. When that
is gone I will stop playing". So many (most) visitors to LV expect
to lose ALL of their "budgeted" gambling bankroll (whatever that may
be), often in a relatively short amount of time.

This is sad but true, I am afraid.

It also harkens back to the heresy that I stated a few weeks ago.
The "advantage" player gets his/her "winnings" off the back of
the "uninitiated", not really from the casinos. There can only
be "advantage" games because the "hordes" play so miserably, ane we
(the advantage players) get some of the casino's "scraps".

bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "chiefvrwc" <chiefvrwc@c...> wrote:

on MSNBC a
commentator provided some gambling advice for the viewer. The best
choice is slots which has only a 6% hold. The holds for blackjack,
craps, baccarat and keno ranged from 10% to 20%. The ignorance of
these reporters and their producers is mind boggling.