vpFREE2 Forums

For California Whales Only

#1

A recent visit to Pala revealed 8/5 SDDB and full-pay Deuces Bonus on the $25 single-line slants in High Limit. They also feature 2 PR Joker and NSUD plays already mentioned in the database. The 3 3/5 play $5 machines with NSUD. 9/6 Jacks, 9/7 DB, 8/5 Bonus and 9/7 TDB* remain nearby.

Was that an asterisk in that post???

Oh yeah...

* (aren't you glad you always read the fine print?!): 9/7 TDB paytable but with these changes: 4 A's w/o k pays 1000, 4 2s.3s.4s w/o k pays 500 but (thought you had a great game, didn't ya?) payout is shorted to 175 for 4 5-Ks.

#2

A recent visit to Pala revealed 8/5 SDDB and full-pay Deuces Bonus on the $25 single-line slants in High Limit. They also feature 2 PR Joker and NSUD plays already mentioned in the database. The 3 3/5 play $5 machines with NSUD. 9/6 Jacks, 9/7 DB, 8/5 Bonus and 9/7 TDB* remain nearby.

Was that an asterisk in that post???

Oh yeah...

* (aren't you glad you always read the fine print?!): 9/7 TDB paytable but with these changes: 4 A's w/o k pays 1000, 4 2s.3s.4s w/o k pays 500 but (thought you had a great game, didn't ya?) payout is shorted to 175 for 4 5-Ks.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mikeymic" <mikeymic@...> wrote:
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That's right. Pala even has plenty of 9-6 JoB, 8-5 BP, and NSUD in the $1 denom Progressive and be prepared to bring your "Whale-SIZE" bankroll as these machines will eat your $$$ in a hurry. Has anybody reported Pala to the Indian/Tribe Gaming Commission?

And before you insert your money on any of Pala's machines and/or Ticket Redemption machine, make sure one of their Slot/Floor attendants is watching --- or you could lose money even without playing.

Last month, I inserted a $100 bill into one of their Ticket Redemption machines to get some change. The machine gave me back 4 $20 bills instead of 5. I called an attendant and of course, s/he will say I did not see it so you'll have to fill out a Dispute Form and check back with us in 2-3 days. Well, it over a month now and each time I check with them, the answer is "The investigation has not been completed.". The other incident happened while attempting to play one of their vp machines. I inserted a $20 bill, inserted my Player's Card and started playing only to find out that the machine took my $20 bill and the screen still showed 0 Credits. The Slot supervisor was called and the same response was given to me. I asked them to check the "Eye in the Sky" cameras and supervisor came back and told me "Yeah they can see in the camera but, it is too blurry to tell what you do with the machine.

If you are planning to play at Pala soon.... maybe you should think again. You should try the nearby casinos instead.

#3

One Vegas pro tried the $25 JW2 for a while. His mail reflected a theo of maybe .25% on the game. Pala has to have the worst player reinvestment of any casino I've ever seen.

They're an easy room comp, and that's about it. Very similar to Barona, Viejas, et al. But if all you're looking for is an easy room comp...by all means, have at it. The $1 NSUD/BDlx progressive still exists.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mikeymic" <mikeymic@...> wrote:

A recent visit to Pala revealed 8/5 SDDB and full-pay Deuces Bonus on the $25 single-line slants in High Limit. They also feature 2 PR Joker and NSUD plays already mentioned in the database. The 3 3/5 play $5 machines with NSUD. 9/6 Jacks, 9/7 DB, 8/5 Bonus and 9/7 TDB* remain nearby.

Was that an asterisk in that post???

Oh yeah...

* (aren't you glad you always read the fine print?!): 9/7 TDB paytable but with these changes: 4 A's w/o k pays 1000, 4 2s.3s.4s w/o k pays 500 but (thought you had a great game, didn't ya?) payout is shorted to 175 for 4 5-Ks.

#4

The Pala mailer offers are indeed anemic. That surprised me, because they just spent a lot on renovation and need to fill those rooms with good players who play decently. In all honesty, on many visits I was the one and only person in that entire high limit room playing video poker.

But in terms of judging "worst", did you consider Fantasy Springs in Indio? Their 3 $1 Ten Play machines with 8/5/60 Super Aces are a well-known play to us out here.

But the reality sets in after you make a few visits and play those machines. If you do, you barely accumulate any slot dollars. To me, that's unbelievable at $50 coin-in for each and every 10 play hand! And don't try talking to a disinterested host, because if you need anything they simply tell you to use your points (and you don't really have that many).

Then, the colorful Fantasy Springs mailer arrives. Mine recently offered an exhilarating $8 (not $80, and certainly not $800), yes, $8 in slot credits. And not even as much as a food discount voucher, much less a free buffet or meal. Free room? No, that's $39/night, and not even on the weekends for an exciting freeway view.

My blessing (if you call it that) is "beginner's luck" at most casinos. So, I am almost always ahead when the initial play has registered and offers start coming in. Then, even with a winning record, the harsh reality rears its ugly head: when incentives stay ridiculously low, walking away is not an option, it's a necessity.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "WP SF" <paladingamingllc@...> wrote:

One Vegas pro tried the $25 JW2 for a while. His mail reflected a theo of maybe .25% on the game. Pala has to have the worst player reinvestment of any casino I've ever seen.

They're an easy room comp, and that's about it. Very similar to Barona, Viejas, et al. But if all you're looking for is an easy room >comp...by all means, have at it. The $1 NSUD/BDlx progressive still >exists.

#5

Your timing was off by several years. Earlier in this decade those same machines frequently had anywhere between .7 to 1% cashback, depending on the promo.

More recently, there was a dollar bank which was mistakenly set to the slot cashback of .25. There was even a 100% pay schedule on those machines, and 10-12x multipliers. Even I would go to Indio for a 3% dollar play.

And somewhere in that region, isn't there a mistake in the neighborhood of 2.3% at quarters? (no, I do not care to share, you have to find that one on your own).

They've been beat enough on the VP this decade and really are not a very big casino to get beat like they did, so they're very tight on the theos and player reinvestment. It's one of the better places to play, but I wouldn't dream of playing the SAB.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mikeymic" <mikeymic@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "WP SF" <paladingamingllc@> wrote:

But in terms of judging "worst", did you consider Fantasy Springs in Indio? Their 3 $1 Ten Play machines with 8/5/60 Super Aces are a well-known play to us out here.

#6

And somewhere in that region, isn't there a mistake in the neighborhood of

2.3% at quarters? (no, I do not care to share, you have to find that one on
your own).

Well, alrighty then. So your reason for mentioning it in the first place
was what?

Nudge

···

From: "WP SF" <paladingamingllc@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: For California Whales Only

#7

I know you are more seasoned and experienced than I am at this, but if I were you I would not even give THIS much info about it. Really, now that I am becoming knowledgeable at perhaps the tailend of opportunity, I wish this whole internet-info-thingy would just go away. :slight_smile:

-BB

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "WP SF" <paladingamingllc@...> wrote:

And somewhere in that region, isn't there a mistake in the neighborhood of 2.3% at quarters? (no, I do not care to share, you have to find that one on your own).

#8

>

>
> And somewhere in that region, isn't there a mistake in the neighborhood of 2.3% at quarters? (no, I do not care to share, you have to find that one on your own).
>

I know you are more seasoned and experienced than I am at this, but if I were you I would not even give THIS much info about it. Really, now that I am becoming knowledgeable at perhaps the tailend of opportunity, I wish this whole internet-info-thingy would just go away. :slight_smile:

-BB

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "WP SF" <paladingamingllc@> wrote:

==================================================================

As far as I know, nobody forces anybody to give/provide info (good or bad) here or in any other forum. It's all up to you.

So many people nowadays (with the weak economy) cannot afford to buy this book, software, etc. just to find "How to do this-n-that?" and this internet-info-thingy gives these people very valuable information for free. So, I don't understand why you would want it to just go away. :<

Are you sure you are not gaining anything from these internet-info-thingy? I believe you are that's why you decided to join the forum and read topics people share in the forum. :>

gilbert

#9

I had read posts on vpFREE for at least 2 years before I ever posted a single thing.

But since I started to benefit substantially from what I learned I felt comfortable in sharing things I discovered. Not ALL things, but some, to return the favor of those who had shared with me and expected nothing in return.

You may assume much of what you read on this site is filtered. That means others are doing as I have done: they share information which might be of benefit but keep other information private. I think Jean Scott's phrase of "not giving you a meal but teaching you how to fish" is accurate.

If no information were revealed on vpFREE then members would lose interest. This site would die a sad death. That would be a shame, because I have literally planned whole trips and weekends around one or two pieces of information in an entire day's worth of threads.

Keep in mind that the most lucrative plays are still kept on the sly. One California casino goofed and until recently gave a solid 1% back on all VP in one bank of machines. I discovered that long ago and emailed people privately who have helped me in the past. But if it's obvious that a revealing a play would quickly result in its demise, then you can usually assume with confidence you're NOT going to see it here.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:

I know you are more seasoned and experienced than I am at this, but if I were you I would not even give THIS much info about it. Really, now that I am becoming knowledgeable at perhaps the tailend of opportunity, I wish this whole internet-info-thingy would just go away. :slight_smile:

-BB

#10

Why isn't this in VPFree_California?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mikeymic" <mikeymic@...> wrote:

A recent visit to Pala revealed 8/5 SDDB and full-pay Deuces Bonus on the $25 single-line slants in High Limit. They also feature 2 PR Joker and NSUD plays already mentioned in the database. The 3 3/5 play $5 machines with NSUD. 9/6 Jacks, 9/7 DB, 8/5 Bonus and 9/7 TDB* remain nearby.

Was that an asterisk in that post???

Oh yeah...

* (aren't you glad you always read the fine print?!): 9/7 TDB paytable but with these changes: 4 A's w/o k pays 1000, 4 2s.3s.4s w/o k pays 500 but (thought you had a great game, didn't ya?) payout is shorted to 175 for 4 5-Ks.

#11

Actually, you're at the tail end of the tail end. That being said it takes a bit of seasoning to come to that realization.

Without trying to devolve into an administrative thread, the people who benefit from the most from VPFree give absolutely nothing at all to it.

I kind of have a mixed opinion about what's going on in Vegas, but I've long said the stupidity pendulum swings both ways, unfortunately it is now swinging heavily to the overreactionary side. Most of it is the economy, I think the Day of Reckoning would come eventually, but the economy is speeding it up dramatically. All those ploppies who cover up for you on high denom machines are gone for now, and probably for good. Guess what happens next?

There are a lot of casinos in the SoCal Desert. Let's see...Fantasy Springs, Spotlight 29, Augustine, Moron Go, San Manuel, Soboba, Spa, Caliente, Red Earth (Salton City)..quite a bit of ground to cover. Happy Hunting!

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "WP SF" <paladingamingllc@> wrote:
>

>
> And somewhere in that region, isn't there a mistake in the neighborhood of 2.3% at quarters? (no, I do not care to share, you have to find that one on your own).
>

I know you are more seasoned and experienced than I am at this, but if I were you I would not even give THIS much info about it. Really, now that I am becoming knowledgeable at perhaps the tailend of opportunity, I wish this whole internet-info-thingy would just go away. :slight_smile:

-BB

#12

Maybe the casino in question should hire one of those Vegas-based "consultants" and weed that mistake out. Then again, that mistake has been going for close to 5 years now, so maybe they're happy with the hold on the game.

My point was that you look hard enough you will find stuff out there. What chafes me about VPFree is that there's a certain element that feels like the group should do their bidding. As if they can get the play to drive up to their homes.

As Dancer pointed out in one of his missives about "smart players" for IGT and The Industry, if there's a misset machine, we'll find it. Can't argue with him there. But this one wasn't a misset, it was a clear programming error (what a revelation, IGT makes programming errors! I thought that was the exclusive province of the now defunct Sigma.). It will go away at some point, but apparently when the casino installs new boards for the machine in question, and not before.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nudge51" <nudge51@...> wrote:

From: "WP SF" <paladingamingllc@...>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: For California Whales Only
>
> And somewhere in that region, isn't there a mistake in the neighborhood of
2.3% at quarters? (no, I do not care to share, you have to find that one on
your own).
>

Well, alrighty then. So your reason for mentioning it in the first place
was what?

Nudge

#13

Well, of course. When I didn't know a hole card from a hole in the ground, this internet-info-thingy was a good thing. Now that I know everything possible there is to know in the universe, I'm ready to pull the plug on it. And NO, I will NOT tell my own mother where that $1 FPDW is.

-BB

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Gilbert" <gilbert_616@...> wrote:

As far as I know, nobody forces anybody to give/provide info (good or bad) here or in any other forum. It's all up to you.

So many people nowadays (with the weak economy) cannot afford to buy this book, software, etc. just to find "How to do this-n-that?" and this internet-info-thingy gives these people very valuable information for free. So, I don't understand why you would want it to just go away. :<

Are you sure you are not gaining anything from these internet-info-thingy? I believe you are that's why you decided to join the forum and read topics people share in the forum. :>

gilbert

#14

Yes, I'm getting your drift, and you're scaring me. I don't know if I agree with you or not, but I am smart enough to know that you are very smart. I read all of your posts, and I am not taking anything you say lightly.

Let me tell you a quick short story of something I saw over the holidays, that might give you a ray of hope. I was at an Indian casino somewhere in central California one night, and as I walked around I couldn't help but notice that OVER half of the slot ploppies did not have a players card in the slot. Seriously, over half! And I'm thinking to myself, omg, I know a lot of these people are here 3 or 4 or more times a month. They're picking tomatoes during the week, and losing their lettuce on the weekends. And these people are not smart enough or just don't give a damn about the extra money they might be getting if they had their cards in the slot. They're going to play anyway, why not take some benefits? And I happen to know this casino is pretty generous. What's wrong with these people? Anyway, with SO many clueless people like that packing into these casinos like sardines, I just cannot imagine there ever not being some good opportunity for a handful of sharpies. Maybe it's different in Vegas. I don't know.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "WP SF" <paladingamingllc@...> wrote:

Actually, you're at the tail end of the tail end. That being said it takes a bit of seasoning to come to that realization.

#15

I hear what you're saying, and I understand. My comments were kind of tongue-in-cheek. I do like reading vpfree. And I even like helping others and sharing info. I just don't want this to come to an end someday, but I know there's nothing I can do about it. Trust me, I'm not a negative person. I'm going to continue to enjoy this and have fun with it whether it goes on for a long time or whether it peters out soon. I am absolutely sure that things will continue to change, though, and probably drastically over the next few years.

Of course, I know there are more important things to worry about right now than video poker. I won't say anything political, but how can anyone not be nervous right now? I know I am.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mikeymic" <mikeymic@...> wrote:

I had read posts on vpFREE for at least 2 years before I ever posted a single thing.

But since I started to benefit substantially from what I learned I felt comfortable in sharing things I discovered. Not ALL things, but some, to return the favor of those who had shared with me and expected nothing in return.

You may assume much of what you read on this site is filtered. That means others are doing as I have done: they share information which might be of benefit but keep other information private. I think Jean Scott's phrase of "not giving you a meal but teaching you how to fish" is accurate.

If no information were revealed on vpFREE then members would lose interest. This site would die a sad death. That would be a shame, because I have literally planned whole trips and weekends around one or two pieces of information in an entire day's worth of threads.

Keep in mind that the most lucrative plays are still kept on the sly. One California casino goofed and until recently gave a solid 1% back on all VP in one bank of machines. I discovered that long ago and emailed people privately who have helped me in the past. But if it's obvious that a revealing a play would quickly result in its demise, then you can usually assume with confidence you're NOT going to see it here.

#16

It's a "tracking card". If you win on a tracking card, they back you off. Sometimes it's better to play anonymously.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:

And these people are not smart enough or just don't give a damn about the extra money they might be getting if they had their cards in the slot. They're going to play anyway, why not take some benefits?

#17

My husband was playing VP in an off-Strip Vegas casino the other day. Guy next to him was playing keno, no card. When asked why he didn't have a players card, Keno Boy replied,"I do have one, but the machine doesn't hit as often when I use it!"

Casual observation here in Vegas, playing off the Strip, is that considerably more than half the players are using cards, but still- it is shocking to see how many red bezels are lit.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:

Let me tell you a quick short story of something I saw over the >holidays, that might give you a ray of hope. I was at an Indian >casino somewhere in central California one night, and as I walked >around I couldn't help but notice that OVER half of the slot ploppies >did not have a players card in the slot. Seriously, over half!

#18

By the way, most of those "players" that you see don't even have documentation, they are shills. The casino pays bus drivers to bus them in, and they give them a lincoln or two (freeplay is too complicated) and they are able to stretch that out into several hours of play, so gamblers like you think the casino is busy. It's all part of the game.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:

and as I walked around I couldn't help but notice that OVER half of the slot ploppies did not have a players card in the slot. Seriously, over half!

#19

My husband was playing VP in an off-Strip Vegas casino the other day. Guy next to him was playing keno, no card. When asked why he didn't have a players card, Keno Boy replied,"I do have one, but the machine doesn't hit as often when I use it!"

I see many people deliberately alternating between having their card
in and not, I assume for the same reason.

#20

You're messing with my head, Iguana. My head's messed up enough without any help, thanks.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

By the way, most of those "players" that you see don't even have documentation, they are shills. The casino pays bus drivers to bus them in, and they give them a lincoln or two (freeplay is too complicated) and they are able to stretch that out into several hours of play, so gamblers like you think the casino is busy. It's all part of the game.