vpFREE2 Forums

Five Play Multi-Strike Strategy

#1

Yes the strategies do adjust. You can look at the Bob Dancer article but to put it briefly, advancing one level is worth about 2 bets on a near 100% game. two levels about 4 bets and all levels about six bets. If you own Video Poker Strategy Master, Frugal Video Poker, Winpoker, Optimum VP etc. you can add 30 coins (6 bets x 5 coins) to the value of all paying hands to practice first level strategy, 20 coins to practice 2nd level and 10 coins to practice third. For JOB this is basically perfect. On the fourth level and on Free Rides you play normal strategy. This works well for almost any game. The Free Ride is designed to make moving up about a 50% proposition but the strategy adjustments increase that slightly. As you mentioned this is an extremely volatile game.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: Adams Myth
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 7/7/2006 9:55:17 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Five Play Multi-Strike Strategy

I haven't studied any available strategies for this game. I played
this sporadically at Showboat and Harrahs at AC, but I can't stand
the volatility of the game; very infrequent high payoffs with steady
losing hands, with almost complete busts very frequently.

I see there is a strategy available at Wizard of Odds site. It is
very detailed, running to two pages, close typed and in three columns.

I want to direct a question at people who play the game frequently,
using some optimal strategy.

When looking at the initial hand of 5 cards dealt, all strategies
strive to maximize the expected payoff. However in this game, in the
lower levels, there is a high premium for going up a level, even at a
reduced payoff. Deferred gratification, you might say. Don't try for
a low probability home run, but try to advance to the next base.

Is this aspect taken into account in the strategies published?
(probably the answer is yes, perhaps this question has been discissed
before. Having just joined this group, I hope to be excused by the
impatient)

A little more elaboration. Apply it to JoB.

Say you are dealt K-J-7-7-2, the high cards unsuited.
The normal strategy is to keep the pair.

If you keep the pair, hoping for a 3-of-a-kind or 4-of-a-kind, there
are two more 7's in the deck. The chance of 3K is 1/47 and 4-K is
that squared (approximately). But if you keep the K-J, there are
three more Kings, and three more Jacks in the deck, so your chanc of
getting a high pair is much much better. The chance of advancing to
the next level is at least 6/47.

That leads me to conclude that you are better off keeping the
unsuited K-J.

Is that right, or am I missing something?

We mere mortals play VP for fun; Bob makes the cards dance to his
tune!- A Myth

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

Thanks.

No sooner than I posted, I began googling, and found a lengthy
article at GameMasterOnline. I did read Bob Dancer's article before,
but it didn't go into the nitty gritty of a detailed strategy, This
one does. I notice that they place unsuited KQ/KJ/AK/AQ/AJ... higher
than a low pair at Level-I.

But at Level-II, the low pair (55 thru TT) is placed higher than any
unsuited KQ/KJ/AK/AQ/AJ, ...

What's going on here? I realize that the premium for the level
decreases as you go up, but it still is lot more valuable to go up,
than down (too hot!)

Let me repeat that I haven't studied the strategy, just looked at it
today.

We mere mortals play VP for fun; Bob makes the cards dance to his
tune!- A Myth

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stern" <howard.w.stern@...>
wrote:

Yes the strategies do adjust. You can look at the Bob Dancer

article but to put it briefly, advancing one level is worth about 2
bets on a near 100% game. two levels about 4 bets and all levels
about six bets. If you own Video Poker Strategy Master, Frugal Video
Poker, Winpoker, Optimum VP etc. you can add 30 coins (6 bets x 5
coins) to the value of all paying hands to practice first level
strategy, 20 coins to practice 2nd level and 10 coins to practice
third. For JOB this is basically perfect. On the fourth level and on
Free Rides you play normal strategy. This works well for almost any
game. The Free Ride is designed to make moving up about a 50%
proposition but the strategy adjustments increase that slightly. As
you mentioned this is an extremely volatile game.

From: Adams Myth
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 7/7/2006 9:55:17 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Five Play Multi-Strike Strategy

I haven't studied any available strategies for this game. I played
this sporadically at Showboat and Harrahs at AC, but I can't stand
the volatility of the game; very infrequent high payoffs with

steady

losing hands, with almost complete busts very frequently.

I see there is a strategy available at Wizard of Odds site. It is
very detailed, running to two pages, close typed and in three

columns.

I want to direct a question at people who play the game frequently,
using some optimal strategy.

When looking at the initial hand of 5 cards dealt, all strategies
strive to maximize the expected payoff. However in this game, in

the

lower levels, there is a high premium for going up a level, even at

a

reduced payoff. Deferred gratification, you might say. Don't try

for

a low probability home run, but try to advance to the next base.

Is this aspect taken into account in the strategies published?
(probably the answer is yes, perhaps this question has been

discissed

before. Having just joined this group, I hope to be excused by the
impatient)

A little more elaboration. Apply it to JoB.

Say you are dealt K-J-7-7-2, the high cards unsuited.
The normal strategy is to keep the pair.

If you keep the pair, hoping for a 3-of-a-kind or 4-of-a-kind,

there

are two more 7's in the deck. The chance of 3K is 1/47 and 4-K is
that squared (approximately). But if you keep the K-J, there are
three more Kings, and three more Jacks in the deck, so your chanc

of

···

----- Original Message -----
getting a high pair is much much better. The chance of advancing to
the next level is at least 6/47.

That leads me to conclude that you are better off keeping the
unsuited K-J.

Is that right, or am I missing something?

We mere mortals play VP for fun; Bob makes the cards dance to his
tune!- A Myth

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

Adams Myth wrote:

No sooner than I posted, I began googling, and found a lengthy
article at GameMasterOnline. I did read Bob Dancer's article before,
but it didn't go into the nitty gritty of a detailed strategy, This
one does.

If you're looking for a detailed MS 9/6 Jacks strategy, I would really
recommend the article at Michael Shackleford's webiste, Wizard of Odds:
http://wizardofodds.com/multistrike/

I pretty much eschew the GameMaster's website -- for among other
reasons, it's one of the most obnoxious and intrusive when it comes to
online casino pop up screens.

I will note that I prefer the Dancer article because it gives the
skilled Jacks player a quick means to mastering the MS version,
dispensing with the need to review the full strategy details. And,
frankly, if you don't have the Jacks game (or whatever MS game you're
thinking of approaching) down cold, MS is a very poor choice for play.

The challenge of switching optimal strategy as you advance each level
ensures that all but the most adept players are going to give up
considerable EV due to mistakes.

I notice that they place unsuited KQ/KJ/AK/AQ/AJ... higher
than a low pair at Level-I.

But at Level-II, the low pair (55 thru TT) is placed higher than any
unsuited KQ/KJ/AK/AQ/AJ, ...

What's going on here? I realize that the premium for the level
decreases as you go up, but it still is lot more valuable to go up,
than down (too hot!)

Gut feel generally makes for a very poor vp strategy guide. Just as a
paytable change from one game version to another may change what you
hold in a given dealt hand, the movement from level to level will.
The optimal hold is simply a function of the math.

If you want to get a stronger feel for that math, one means is to make
the necessary paytable changes necessary to practice strategy for each
level (noted in the Dancer article) and analyze a given hand with
software such as winpoker. It'll show you what aspects cause one hold
to dominate over another.

···

------------

As an aside, the key to successful video poker survival is to play the
strongest paytables available and to play denominations and game
versions with volatility that your bankroll can readily survive.

You note playing this at Showboat and Harrah's AC. The Showboat
database here (which "mslizrn" has apparently graciously accepted
responsibility for updating) shows 9/6 DDB as being the best single
line MS game available. I expect the JB version is 8/5 or 7/5. The JB
is to steer clear of. The DDB has a modestly undesirable return for
AC, but even more noteworthy is that the $.25 MS game is only
prudently approached at 4 Levels by someone extremely comfortable with
the $1 single line game.

My intent is hardly to chastise -- just to suggest that unless you
possess a very robust bankroll you may be setting yourself up for some
heartache here.

- Harry

#4

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...>
wrote:

If you're looking for a detailed MS 9/6 Jacks strategy, I would

really

recommend the article at Michael Shackleford's webiste, Wizard of

Odds:

http://wizardofodds.com/multistrike/

I have that bookmarked, haven't read it yet.

I will note that I prefer the Dancer article because it gives the
skilled Jacks player a quick means to mastering the MS version,
dispensing with the need to review the full strategy details. And,
frankly, if you don't have the Jacks game (or whatever MS game

you're

thinking of approaching) down cold, MS is a very poor choice for

play.

True. MultiStrike can give you quite a heartache. Even the times I
come out break even, I wonder if all that is good for the heart! The
saving grace is the music! I wonder at the raucous sounds some
machines make, and think there is no excuse for that now.

The challenge of switching optimal strategy as you advance each

level

ensures that all but the most adept players are going to give up
considerable EV due to mistakes.

Yes. I think it is the easiest game to make mistakes. And pay for
them!

My intent is hardly to chastise -- just to suggest that unless you
possess a very robust bankroll you may be setting yourself up for

some

heartache here.

I didn't feel that I was being chastised. OTOH, there is no need to
chastise anybody here. What people do with their money is their
business. I wonder if Bob Dancer were to spot someone playing VP with
obviously poor strategy, would he approach and chastise them?

We mere mortals play VP for fun; Bob makes the cards dance to his
tunes! - A Myth

#5

Jusr re-read the Bob Dancer article on Multi-Srike Poker.

Every time I think he may have missed some thing, I should go back and
read it again. He gives a simple strategy for each level, and clearly
says to hold two unsuited high cards in preference to a low pair, in teh
first three levels.

But here is a question: For level three he says:

Level 3: 94.7% of all hands should be played identically as perfect 9/6
Jacks or Better. Never hold a suited ten with a high card. Hold a single
high card in preference to a 4-card straight with no high cards. The
only holdable 3-card straight flush has no high cards and no gaps, and
only then if there is no high card in the hand.

I am playing it on computer right now, and at level three, I have this
hand: (6,8),(9,7),K

The recommendation is to hold the single King. My gut tells me (Steven
Colbert's recommendation: listen to your gut. It has more nerve endings
than your brain does) to go for the straight, as there are eight chances
of 47 to draw the 5 or 10, but only three chances to pair the King.

  Yeah, I can calculate the probabilities, but what's the gut-level
answer?

Then I realize that in addition to getting a King pair, it is also
possible to get a pair of three other high cards, not to mention four
four-of-a-kinds (dream on, at level 3!), and several other sundry
possibilities. And when you tote them all up, the straight possibilities
pale in comparison.

It would be nice to have a table that give the probability of getting
tothe next level, irrespective of the EV of that move. Sort of like an
on-base percentage.

We mere mortals play VP for fun; Bob makes the cards dance to his tune.
- A Myth

Adams Myth wrote:
> No sooner than I posted, I began googling, and found a lengthy
> article at GameMasterOnline. I did read Bob Dancer's article before,
> but it didn't go into the nitty gritty of a detailed strategy, This
> one does.

If you're looking for a detailed MS 9/6 Jacks strategy, I would really
recommend the article at Michael Shackleford's webiste, Wizard of

Odds:

http://wizardofodds.com/multistrike/

I pretty much eschew the GameMaster's website -- for among other
reasons, it's one of the most obnoxious and intrusive when it comes to
online casino pop up screens.

I will note that I prefer the Dancer article because it gives the
skilled Jacks player a quick means to mastering the MS version,
dispensing with the need to review the full strategy details. And,
frankly, if you don't have the Jacks game (or whatever MS game you're
thinking of approaching) down cold, MS is a very poor choice for play.

The challenge of switching optimal strategy as you advance each level
ensures that all but the most adept players are going to give up
considerable EV due to mistakes.

> I notice that they place unsuited KQ/KJ/AK/AQ/AJ... higher
> than a low pair at Level-I.
>
> But at Level-II, the low pair (55 thru TT) is placed higher than any
> unsuited KQ/KJ/AK/AQ/AJ, ...
>
> What's going on here? I realize that the premium for the level
> decreases as you go up, but it still is lot more valuable to go up,
> than down (too hot!)

Gut feel generally makes for a very poor vp strategy guide. Just as a
paytable change from one game version to another may change what you
hold in a given dealt hand, the movement from level to level will.
The optimal hold is simply a function of the math.

If you want to get a stronger feel for that math, one means is to make
the necessary paytable changes necessary to practice strategy for each
level (noted in the Dancer article) and analyze a given hand with
software such as winpoker. It'll show you what aspects cause one hold
to dominate over another.

------------

As an aside, the key to successful video poker survival is to play the
strongest paytables available and to play denominations and game
versions with volatility that your bankroll can readily survive.

You note playing this at Showboat and Harrah's AC. The Showboat
database here (which "mslizrn" has apparently graciously accepted
responsibility for updating) shows 9/6 DDB as being the best single
line MS game available. I expect the JB version is 8/5 or 7/5. The JB
is to steer clear of. The DDB has a modestly undesirable return for
AC, but even more noteworthy is that the $.25 MS game is only
prudently approached at 4 Levels by someone extremely comfortable with
the $1 single line game.

My intent is hardly to chastise -- just to suggest that unless you
possess a very robust bankroll you may be setting yourself up for some
heartache here.

- Harry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

#6

A Myth-

Rather than guess, you can download the beta version of Multi-Strike
Poker which is part of the Video Poker for Winners package which is
being put out soon by Action Gaming.

The beta is available at:

http://www.videopoker.com/insideScoop/testYourSkills/

Use the inside scroll bar to scroll down to the Multi-Strike Poker
beta download.

You will need to register at the videopoker.com site but there is no
charge to do this.

This program plays Multi-Strike Poker (Jacks or Better or
Double-Double Bonus only in this beta version). It will warn you on
errors like Winpoker or FVP and allows you to enter any hand on any
level like the one that you ask about below.

I hope that this helps you to better understand the game.

-Larry DeMar
President
Leading Edge Design
http://www.ledgaming.com

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Adams Myth" <Adams_Myth@...> wrote:

Jusr re-read the Bob Dancer article on Multi-Srike Poker.

Every time I think he may have missed some thing, I should go back and
read it again. He gives a simple strategy for each level, and clearly
says to hold two unsuited high cards in preference to a low pair, in teh
first three levels.

But here is a question: For level three he says:

Level 3: 94.7% of all hands should be played identically as perfect 9/6
Jacks or Better. Never hold a suited ten with a high card. Hold a single
high card in preference to a 4-card straight with no high cards. The
only holdable 3-card straight flush has no high cards and no gaps, and
only then if there is no high card in the hand.

I am playing it on computer right now, and at level three, I have this
hand: (6,8),(9,7),K

The recommendation is to hold the single King. My gut tells me (Steven
Colbert's recommendation: listen to your gut. It has more nerve endings
than your brain does) to go for the straight, as there are eight chances
of 47 to draw the 5 or 10, but only three chances to pair the King.

  Yeah, I can calculate the probabilities, but what's the gut-level
answer?

Then I realize that in addition to getting a King pair, it is also
possible to get a pair of three other high cards, not to mention four
four-of-a-kinds (dream on, at level 3!), and several other sundry
possibilities. And when you tote them all up, the straight possibilities
pale in comparison.

It would be nice to have a table that give the probability of getting
tothe next level, irrespective of the EV of that move. Sort of like an
on-base percentage.

We mere mortals play VP for fun; Bob makes the cards dance to his tune.
- A Myth

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@> wrote:
>
> Adams Myth wrote:
> > No sooner than I posted, I began googling, and found a lengthy
> > article at GameMasterOnline. I did read Bob Dancer's article before,
> > but it didn't go into the nitty gritty of a detailed strategy, This
> > one does.
>
> If you're looking for a detailed MS 9/6 Jacks strategy, I would really
> recommend the article at Michael Shackleford's webiste, Wizard of
Odds:
> http://wizardofodds.com/multistrike/
>
> I pretty much eschew the GameMaster's website -- for among other
> reasons, it's one of the most obnoxious and intrusive when it comes to
> online casino pop up screens.
>
> I will note that I prefer the Dancer article because it gives the
> skilled Jacks player a quick means to mastering the MS version,
> dispensing with the need to review the full strategy details. And,
> frankly, if you don't have the Jacks game (or whatever MS game you're
> thinking of approaching) down cold, MS is a very poor choice for play.
>
> The challenge of switching optimal strategy as you advance each level
> ensures that all but the most adept players are going to give up
> considerable EV due to mistakes.
>
>
> > I notice that they place unsuited KQ/KJ/AK/AQ/AJ... higher
> > than a low pair at Level-I.
> >
> > But at Level-II, the low pair (55 thru TT) is placed higher than any
> > unsuited KQ/KJ/AK/AQ/AJ, ...
> >
> > What's going on here? I realize that the premium for the level
> > decreases as you go up, but it still is lot more valuable to go up,
> > than down (too hot!)
>
> Gut feel generally makes for a very poor vp strategy guide. Just as a
> paytable change from one game version to another may change what you
> hold in a given dealt hand, the movement from level to level will.
> The optimal hold is simply a function of the math.
>
> If you want to get a stronger feel for that math, one means is to make
> the necessary paytable changes necessary to practice strategy for each
> level (noted in the Dancer article) and analyze a given hand with
> software such as winpoker. It'll show you what aspects cause one hold
> to dominate over another.
>
> ------------
>
> As an aside, the key to successful video poker survival is to play the
> strongest paytables available and to play denominations and game
> versions with volatility that your bankroll can readily survive.
>
> You note playing this at Showboat and Harrah's AC. The Showboat
> database here (which "mslizrn" has apparently graciously accepted
> responsibility for updating) shows 9/6 DDB as being the best single
> line MS game available. I expect the JB version is 8/5 or 7/5. The JB
> is to steer clear of. The DDB has a modestly undesirable return for
> AC, but even more noteworthy is that the $.25 MS game is only
> prudently approached at 4 Levels by someone extremely comfortable with
> the $1 single line game.
>
> My intent is hardly to chastise -- just to suggest that unless you
> possess a very robust bankroll you may be setting yourself up for some
> heartache here.
>
> - Harry
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

Thanks a million.

I've been playing MultiStrike at LED Gaming for a couple of weeks and
absolutely love the sounds, and the whole experience.

I'll try the beta version.

We mere mortals play VP for fun; Bob makes the cards dance to his
tune. - A Myth

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Larry218" <larry@...> wrote:

Rather than guess, you can download the beta version of Multi-Strike
Poker which is part of the Video Poker for Winners package which is
being put out soon by Action Gaming.

#8

I am having more luck with this on my computer than I had this
afternoon at Harrahs!

How soon would you have a Five Play version of this? That reduces the
volatility of this gaem a tiny bit.

We mere mortals play VP for fun; Bob makes the cards dance to his
tune. - A Myth

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Larry218" <larry@...> wrote:

The beta is available at:

http://www.videopoker.com/insideScoop/testYourSkills/

#9

To my knowledge Harrah's does not offer the best pay schedules on
this game (or most games) that may be why you had better luck at
home. :slight_smile:

> The beta is available at:
>
> http://www.videopoker.com/insideScoop/testYourSkills/

I am having more luck with this on my computer than I had this
afternoon at Harrahs!

How soon would you have a Five Play version of this? That reduces

the

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Adams Myth" <Adams_Myth@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Larry218" <larry@> wrote:
volatility of this gaem a tiny bit.

We mere mortals play VP for fun; Bob makes the cards dance to his
tune. - A Myth