I was at finger lakes gaming & racetrack sunday.
the have double bonus video poker with a very
good pay table plus a matching bonus card.
800 -4 aces
400 4 2-4's
250 4 5-kings
full house 50
flush 35
straight 25
3 of kind 15
2 pair 5
jacks or better 5
does anyone know if this paytable is legit
or is set up like a regular slot machine?
I did get aces and did very well on the machine
Check 2 c if this is an IGT machine as this is the full pay version of 10/7 DB - if it is a manufacturer that sells in NV all machines it sells in th ecountry have to meet NV regulations. Of course, the chip could be changed after purchase.
LOBO1971L@netscape.net wrote: I was at finger lakes gaming & racetrack sunday.
the have double bonus video poker with a very
good pay table plus a matching bonus card.
800 -4 aces
400 4 2-4's
250 4 5-kings
full house 50
flush 35
straight 25
3 of kind 15
2 pair 5
jacks or better 5
does anyone know if this paytable is legit
or is set up like a regular slot machine?
I did get aces and did very well on the machine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The "matching bonus card" sounds like Class II, i.e. not legit.
http://www.igt.com/content/base.asp?pid=8.17.36.243&bhcp=1
"This technology may also be used in jurisdictions that allow charity
gaming (depending on technical specifications) and, with some
modification, in jurisdictions that permit lottery-based games such as
those used by Washington tribes and New York racetracks."
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, LOBO1971L@... wrote:
I was at finger lakes gaming & racetrack sunday.
the have double bonus video poker with a very
good pay table plus a matching bonus card.800 -4 aces
400 4 2-4's
250 4 5-kings
full house 50
flush 35
straight 25
3 of kind 15
2 pair 5
jacks or better 5does anyone know if this paytable is legit
or is set up like a regular slot machine?I did get aces and did very well on the machine
It is no longer true (if it ever was) that a NV approved manufacturer
can only sell NV approved machines. IGT, for example, is in the Class
II business. Class II machines are illegal in Nevada for non-Indian
gaming.
Check 2 c if this is an IGT machine as this is the full pay version
of 10/7 DB - if it is a manufacturer that sells in NV all machines it
sells in th ecountry have to meet NV regulations. Of course, the chip
could be changed after purchase.
LOBO1971L@... wrote: I was at finger lakes gaming &
racetrack sunday.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, pesach kremen <royalflush2222@...> wrote:
the have double bonus video poker with a very
good pay table plus a matching bonus card.800 -4 aces
400 4 2-4's
250 4 5-kings
full house 50
flush 35
straight 25
3 of kind 15
2 pair 5
jacks or better 5does anyone know if this paytable is legit
or is set up like a regular slot machine?I did get aces and did very well on the machine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Night wrote: It is no longer true (if it ever was) that a NV approved
manufacturer can only sell NV approved machines. IGT, for example, is in
the Class
II business. Class II machines are illegal in Nevada for non-Indian
gaming.
Sort of. IGT owns SoDak which sells Class II machines --- but I don't
believe IGT proper sells Class II.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Night wrote: It is no longer true (if it ever was) that a NV approved
manufacturer can only sell NV approved machines. IGT, for example, is in
the Class
II business. Class II machines are illegal in Nevada for non-Indian
gaming.Sort of. IGT owns SoDak which sells Class II machines --- but I don't
believe IGT proper sells Class II.
http://www.igt.com/content/base.asp?pid=8.17.36.243&bhcp=1
Q: What Class II player interface stations does IGT offer?
Wheel of Fortune®, Enchanted Unicorn®, Lucky Larry's Lobstermania,
Used Cars, Cleopatra®, TABASCO®, Beetle Bailey, SPAM, Red White &
Blue®, Double Diamond®, Money Storm®, Phone Tag®, Ghost Island, Money
Mansion, and Catch A Wave® . Many more are on the way.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bdancer@...> wrote:
A: IGT offers 15 themes on its Reel Touch Bingo series including
http://www.google.com/search?q=igt+class+II
http://www.igt.com/GamingGroup/Games/base.asp?pid=5.170
"IGT Your Best Choice in Class II Gaming
IGT understands the needs of tribal gaming and the importance of doing
business "your" way. As a committed, long-term supporter and
contributor to NIGA, IGT brings unprecedented respect, appreciation,
and knowledge to the Class II and Class III Native American markets."
Check 2 c if this is an IGT machine as this is the full pay version
of 10/7 DB - if it is a manufacturer that sells in NV all machines it
sells in th ecountry have to meet NV regulations. Of course, the chip
could be changed after purchase.
LOBO1971L@... wrote: I was at finger lakes gaming &
racetrack sunday.
the have double bonus video poker with a very
good pay table plus a matching bonus card.800 -4 aces
400 4 2-4's
250 4 5-kings
full house 50
flush 35
straight 25
3 of kind 15
2 pair 5
jacks or better 5does anyone know if this paytable is legit
or is set up like a regular slot machine?I did get aces and did very well on the machine
There is no such thing as "full pay" and "magic genie" on the same
chip. It's a Class II machine, it only looks like video poker.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, pesach kremen <royalflush2222@...> wrote:
I ASSURE YOU THAT THOSE MACHINES ARE NOT RANDOM IN THE NORMAL SENSE.
THEY ARE CLASS TWO AND HAVE PREDETERMINED STACKED RESULTS.
IF YOU GET TWO PAIR DEALT, DO ANYTHING, INCLUDING THROWING ALL YOUR
CARDS AWAY, AND TWO PAIR WILL BE THE WORST POSSIBLE HAND YOU CAN GET!
I REFUSE TO PLAY THERE.
THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS THE PREDETERMINED PAYOUT? THE ONES LISTED ARE
JUST A GUIDE TO THE PAY YOU GET.
CONSIDERED ACTION AGAINST THE STATE FOR FALSE ADVERTISING, BUT DECIDED
NOT TO VISIT.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, LOBO1971L@... wrote:
I was at finger lakes gaming & racetrack sunday.
the have double bonus video poker with a very
good pay table plus a matching bonus card.800 -4 aces
400 4 2-4's
250 4 5-kings
full house 50
flush 35
straight 25
3 of kind 15
2 pair 5
jacks or better 5does anyone know if this paytable is legit
or is set up like a regular slot machine?I did get aces and did very well on the machine
LOBO1971L wrote:
I was at finger lakes gaming & racetrack sunday.
the have double bonus video poker with a very
good pay table plus a matching bonus card.
800 -4 aces
400 4 2-4's
250 4 5-kings
full house 50
flush 35
straight 25
3 of kind 15
2 pair 5
jacks or better 5does anyone know if this paytable is legit
or is set up like a regular slot machine?I did get aces and did very well on the machine
The "Match Card" feature is a clear indication that this isn't an IGT
machine, nor is it LV-compliant.
My guess is that it's manufactured by a firm such as Alliance Gaming
(a unit of renamed Bally Gaming), likely under the SDG nameplate (a
subsidiary of Alliance) ... at least that's true of similar machines
in WA State.
The machines typically are run of a VLT system akin to an electronic
pull-tab. As such, the machines don't meet Class II specification
(which is strictly driven off a Bingo simulation). That means they're
Class III -- which doesn't necessarily equate to LV-compliant (and
thus an unfortunate description of machines which are LV-compliant).
In such a vp machine, you're dealt 10 cards from which it's possible
to form a hand that pays out a predetermined amount. If you take any
hold action which defeats forming that hand, a Match Card win will
surface that makes up the difference between your actual win and the
intended win.
It's unlikely that you will continue to do well with any consistency
in the future on the machine.
- Harry
Sorry, it is not a requirement. That's a myth. The only requirement is that it meet the restrictions of the jurisdiction in which it will be used. The Chairman of the Commission is authorized to make exceptions.
At 09:46 PM 6/11/2008, you wrote:
Check 2 c if this is an IGT machine as this is the full pay version of 10/7 DB - if it is a manufacturer that sells in NV all machines it sells in th ecountry have to meet NV regulations. Of course, the chip could be changed after purchase.
LOBO1971L@netscape.net wrote: I was at finger lakes gaming & racetrack sunday.
the have double bonus video poker with a very
good pay table plus a matching bonus card.800 -4 aces
400 4 2-4's
250 4 5-kings
full house 50
flush 35
straight 25
3 of kind 15
2 pair 5
jacks or better 5does anyone know if this paytable is legit
or is set up like a regular slot machine?I did get aces and did very well on the machine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
Class II and Washington / NY racino games are perfectly legit. They simply use a different methodology than dealing from a 52-card deck with each card having an equal chance. By your logic Nevada slot machines are not legit!
At 09:51 PM 6/11/2008, you wrote:
The "matching bonus card" sounds like Class II, i.e. not legit.
http://www.igt.com/content/base.asp?pid=8.17.36.243&bhcp=1
"This technology may also be used in jurisdictions that allow charity
gaming (depending on technical specifications) and, with some
modification, in jurisdictions that permit lottery-based games such as
those used by Washington tribes and New York racetracks."--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, LOBO1971L@... wrote:
>
> I was at finger lakes gaming & racetrack sunday.
> the have double bonus video poker with a very
> good pay table plus a matching bonus card.
>
> 800 -4 aces
> 400 4 2-4's
> 250 4 5-kings
> full house 50
> flush 35
> straight 25
> 3 of kind 15
> 2 pair 5
> jacks or better 5
>
> does anyone know if this paytable is legit
> or is set up like a regular slot machine?
>
> I did get aces and did very well on the machine
>------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
Yes, Bob IGT, Bally and others all sell Class II machines under their own brand.
At 10:32 PM 6/11/2008, you wrote:
Night wrote: It is no longer true (if it ever was) that a NV approved
manufacturer can only sell NV approved machines. IGT, for example, is in
the Class
II business. Class II machines are illegal in Nevada for non-Indian
gaming.Sort of. IGT owns SoDak which sells Class II machines --- but I don't
believe IGT proper sells Class II.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
Don't shout. In NY Racinos all machines are based on a lottery scratch-card. The results of VP, slots, keno are all pre-determined. In the case you cite, 2 pair is not the "worst possible hand you can get" It is precisely the hand you WILL get because discards and drawing are simply for entertainment and have NO effect on the result. The scratch card was selected when you pressed the Deal button and cannot be changed.
But it is completely honest, open and fair. It is no secret how these machines work, in fact racino personnel will explain it (assuming they have been properly trained).
At 05:24 AM 6/12/2008, you wrote:
I ASSURE YOU THAT THOSE MACHINES ARE NOT RANDOM IN THE NORMAL SENSE.
THEY ARE CLASS TWO AND HAVE PREDETERMINED STACKED RESULTS.
IF YOU GET TWO PAIR DEALT, DO ANYTHING, INCLUDING THROWING ALL YOUR
CARDS AWAY, AND TWO PAIR WILL BE THE WORST POSSIBLE HAND YOU CAN GET!I REFUSE TO PLAY THERE.
THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS THE PREDETERMINED PAYOUT? THE ONES LISTED ARE
JUST A GUIDE TO THE PAY YOU GET.CONSIDERED ACTION AGAINST THE STATE FOR FALSE ADVERTISING, BUT DECIDED
NOT TO VISIT.--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, LOBO1971L@... wrote:
>
> I was at finger lakes gaming & racetrack sunday.
> the have double bonus video poker with a very
> good pay table plus a matching bonus card.
>
> 800 -4 aces
> 400 4 2-4's
> 250 4 5-kings
> full house 50
> flush 35
> straight 25
> 3 of kind 15
> 2 pair 5
> jacks or better 5
>
> does anyone know if this paytable is legit
> or is set up like a regular slot machine?
>
> I did get aces and did very well on the machine
>------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
Thanks for the concise explanation. I assume the Washington tribes operate in a similar manner based on one of your earlier explanations?
I used to think I was really puttin' it to those tribes, strategy card at the ready. What a sucker I was, (is?)!
JW
--- On Thu, 6/12/08, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@cox.net> wrote:
From: Bill Coleman <vphobby2@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Finger lakes gaming
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, June 12, 2008, 10:39 AM
Don't shout. In NY Racinos all machines are based on a
lottery
scratch-card. The results of VP, slots, keno are all
pre-determined.
In the case you cite, 2 pair is not the "worst
possible hand you can
get" It is precisely the hand you WILL get because
discards and
drawing are simply for entertainment and have NO effect on
the
result. The scratch card was selected when you pressed the
Deal
button and cannot be changed.But it is completely honest, open and fair. It is no secret
how these
machines work, in fact racino personnel will explain it
(assuming
they have been properly trained).At 05:24 AM 6/12/2008, you wrote:
>I ASSURE YOU THAT THOSE MACHINES ARE NOT RANDOM IN THE
NORMAL SENSE.
>
>THEY ARE CLASS TWO AND HAVE PREDETERMINED STACKED
RESULTS.
>
>IF YOU GET TWO PAIR DEALT, DO ANYTHING, INCLUDING
THROWING ALL YOUR
>CARDS AWAY, AND TWO PAIR WILL BE THE WORST POSSIBLE
HAND YOU CAN GET!
>
>I REFUSE TO PLAY THERE.
>
>THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS THE PREDETERMINED PAYOUT? THE
ONES LISTED ARE
>JUST A GUIDE TO THE PAY YOU GET.
>
>CONSIDERED ACTION AGAINST THE STATE FOR FALSE
ADVERTISING, BUT DECIDED
>NOT TO VISIT.
>
>
>--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, LOBO1971L@... wrote:
> >
> > I was at finger lakes gaming & racetrack
sunday.
> > the have double bonus video poker with a very
> > good pay table plus a matching bonus card.
> >
> > 800 -4 aces
> > 400 4 2-4's
> > 250 4 5-kings
> > full house 50
> > flush 35
> > straight 25
> > 3 of kind 15
> > 2 pair 5
> > jacks or better 5
> >
> > does anyone know if this paytable is legit
> > or is set up like a regular slot machine?
> >
> > I did get aces and did very well on the machine
> >
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
Yes, the only difference is that each tribal casino is an independent lottery system whereas NY Racinos are all tied to the State system. This means nothing to the consumer.
At 10:47 AM 6/12/2008, you wrote:
Thanks for the concise explanation. I assume the Washington tribes operate in a similar manner based on one of your earlier explanations?
I used to think I was really puttin' it to those tribes, strategy card at the ready. What a sucker I was, (is?)!
JW
--- On Thu, 6/12/08, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@cox.net> wrote:
> From: Bill Coleman <vphobby2@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Finger lakes gaming
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, June 12, 2008, 10:39 AM
> Don't shout. In NY Racinos all machines are based on a
> lottery
> scratch-card. The results of VP, slots, keno are all
> pre-determined.
> In the case you cite, 2 pair is not the "worst
> possible hand you can
> get" It is precisely the hand you WILL get because
> discards and
> drawing are simply for entertainment and have NO effect on
> the
> result. The scratch card was selected when you pressed the
> Deal
> button and cannot be changed.
>
> But it is completely honest, open and fair. It is no secret
> how these
> machines work, in fact racino personnel will explain it
> (assuming
> they have been properly trained).
>
> At 05:24 AM 6/12/2008, you wrote:
>
> >I ASSURE YOU THAT THOSE MACHINES ARE NOT RANDOM IN THE
> NORMAL SENSE.
> >
> >THEY ARE CLASS TWO AND HAVE PREDETERMINED STACKED
> RESULTS.
> >
> >IF YOU GET TWO PAIR DEALT, DO ANYTHING, INCLUDING
> THROWING ALL YOUR
> >CARDS AWAY, AND TWO PAIR WILL BE THE WORST POSSIBLE
> HAND YOU CAN GET!
> >
> >I REFUSE TO PLAY THERE.
> >
> >THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS THE PREDETERMINED PAYOUT? THE
> ONES LISTED ARE
> >JUST A GUIDE TO THE PAY YOU GET.
> >
> >CONSIDERED ACTION AGAINST THE STATE FOR FALSE
> ADVERTISING, BUT DECIDED
> >NOT TO VISIT.
> >
> >--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, LOBO1971L@... wrote:
> > >
> > > I was at finger lakes gaming & racetrack
> sunday.
> > > the have double bonus video poker with a very
> > > good pay table plus a matching bonus card.
> > >
> > > 800 -4 aces
> > > 400 4 2-4's
> > > 250 4 5-kings
> > > full house 50
> > > flush 35
> > > straight 25
> > > 3 of kind 15
> > > 2 pair 5
> > > jacks or better 5
> > >
> > > does anyone know if this paytable is legit
> > > or is set up like a regular slot machine?
> > >
> > > I did get aces and did very well on the machine
> > >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
By "not legit" I meant "not a legitimate deal". The video game looks
like a game of 52-card poker, with a fully shuffled deck of unmarked
cards, dealt squarely from the deck. But it is not. It fails this
Nevada regulation:
14.040.2.b For gaming devices that are representative of live gambling
games, the mathematical probability of a symbol or other element
appearing in a game outcome must be equal to the mathematical
probability of that symbol or element occurring in the live gambling game.
Of course Nevada Wheel of Fortune also fails this regulation, but
that's another story. Regular Nevada slots are ok because there is no
equivalent live gambling game (but the practice is borderline
deceptive). But there is a live wheel. On a live wheel, all positions
have an equal chance of hitting, unless the wheel has been weighted or
rigged in some way.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@...> wrote:
Class II and Washington / NY racino games are perfectly legit. They
simply use a different methodology than dealing from a 52-card deck
with each card having an equal chance. By your logic Nevada slot
machines are not legit!At 09:51 PM 6/11/2008, you wrote:
>The "matching bonus card" sounds like Class II, i.e. not legit.
>http://www.igt.com/content/base.asp?pid=8.17.36.243&bhcp=1
>"This technology may also be used in jurisdictions that allow charity
>gaming (depending on technical specifications) and, with some
>modification, in jurisdictions that permit lottery-based games such as
>those used by Washington tribes and New York racetracks."
>
>--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, LOBO1971L@ wrote:
> >
> > I was at finger lakes gaming & racetrack sunday.
> > the have double bonus video poker with a very
> > good pay table plus a matching bonus card.
> >
> > 800 -4 aces
> > 400 4 2-4's
> > 250 4 5-kings
> > full house 50
> > flush 35
> > straight 25
> > 3 of kind 15
> > 2 pair 5
> > jacks or better 5
> >
> > does anyone know if this paytable is legit
> > or is set up like a regular slot machine?
> >
> > I did get aces and did very well on the machine
> >
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
I know what you mean, Bill, but its hard for me to agree they are
honest, open, and fair in the usual sense. First of all, in
Washington's tribal casinos, VP machines provide no explanation as to
how they operate. I'm sure many people assume it is identical to the
VP they play in Nevada, just like the poster who started this
thread. They are only honest and fair in the sense that the outcome of
each game is selected randomly, but that outcome has nothing to do with
the paytable. To me they are honest and fair in the random selection
sense, but not in the fullest sense because card selection strategy is
irrelevant.
Here's a silly anology. Suppose Nevada casinos decided to pay us in
Euros, not dollars. So the machine is fully random, and card selection
strategy counts ... but each euro we earn is worth only 60 cents US.
So everything is honest, open, and fair ... but we still get shafted.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@...> wrote:
But it is completely honest, open and fair. It is no secret how these
machines work, in fact racino personnel will explain it (assuming
they have been properly trained).
By worst possible hand, I mean it will not get worse , but you could draw and end up with a full house, which is an improvement. This also means that if you are dealt two pair and discard two, you will never improve to 4 of a kind. More importantly, if this is not truely random, then the actual percentage could be any level they determine. I just don't buy that they have 99%+ payback machines!
Also, what about the little genie that comes out once in a while and alters the hand after the draw. How does this calculate in the payoff.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Coleman
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Finger lakes gaming
Don't shout. In NY Racinos all machines are based on a lottery
scratch-card. The results of VP, slots, keno are all pre-determined.
In the case you cite, 2 pair is not the "worst possible hand you can
get" It is precisely the hand you WILL get because discards and
drawing are simply for entertainment and have NO effect on the
result. The scratch card was selected when you pressed the Deal
button and cannot be changed.
But it is completely honest, open and fair. It is no secret how these
machines work, in fact racino personnel will explain it (assuming
they have been properly trained).
At 05:24 AM 6/12/2008, you wrote:
>I ASSURE YOU THAT THOSE MACHINES ARE NOT RANDOM IN THE NORMAL SENSE.
>
>THEY ARE CLASS TWO AND HAVE PREDETERMINED STACKED RESULTS.
>
>IF YOU GET TWO PAIR DEALT, DO ANYTHING, INCLUDING THROWING ALL YOUR
>CARDS AWAY, AND TWO PAIR WILL BE THE WORST POSSIBLE HAND YOU CAN GET!
>
>I REFUSE TO PLAY THERE.
>
>THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS THE PREDETERMINED PAYOUT? THE ONES LISTED ARE
>JUST A GUIDE TO THE PAY YOU GET.
>
>CONSIDERED ACTION AGAINST THE STATE FOR FALSE ADVERTISING, BUT DECIDED
>NOT TO VISIT.
>
>
>--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, LOBO1971L@... wrote:
> >
> > I was at finger lakes gaming & racetrack sunday.
> > the have double bonus video poker with a very
> > good pay table plus a matching bonus card.
> >
> > 800 -4 aces
> > 400 4 2-4's
> > 250 4 5-kings
> > full house 50
> > flush 35
> > straight 25
> > 3 of kind 15
> > 2 pair 5
> > jacks or better 5
> >
> > does anyone know if this paytable is legit
> > or is set up like a regular slot machine?
> >
> > I did get aces and did very well on the machine
> >
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bill Coleman wrote:
Yes, the only difference is that each tribal casino is an independent
lottery system whereas NY Racinos are all tied to the State system.
This means nothing to the consumer.
-----
It certainly does mean a lot to the consumer if the house hold differs in each case. Especially when it gets down near 50 percent like the official New York State Lottery games.