vpFREE2 Forums

Fiesta Rancho Progressives Addenda

#1

Reportedly it was over $1900 and they lost
around $4000 chasing it.

This was a couple that was guarding the amount of the RF progressive with
their life practically. But they kept sharing how much they won or lost so
easily throughout the process?

#2

From VP Free: <<Reportedly it was over $1900 and they lost

around $4000 chasing it.>>

Don't know the couple - but it could have been Brad and I - or any number of
wise advantage players. You don't open and close your books at the
beginning and end of ONE play. It was a good play when they began playing
it (I assume - I forget what the amount reported then was) and it became a
better play the higher the progressive went. Depending on their bankroll -
this was a very GOOD play that they were being wise in keeping at it - again
as long as they weren't too tired to play correctly. Hiding the progressive
amount was a personal "quirk" but we all have some of those lurking in our
mind.

They probably shouldn't have told people how much they lost - because most
people don't understand - seems that even a lot on this list don't yet
understand the basic concept of advantage play - "life is one long VP
session." Of course bitching about how much one is losing is not the
exclusive right of the non-advantage player - we all are human beings.
(Read this week's Frugal Fridays!) Or, they might have been using this
"complaining" as cover - to keep people - and the casino - from diagnosing
them as advantage players.

FROM Skip's list: Tomski: <<I got up to quit to lock up the win>>

You are my good friend and a math genius, but I will never understand you
when you make a statement like this. It just shows that psychological
considerations in playing VP play a HUGE part in the whole advantage play
picture. For you, Tomski, I think the psychological considerations
overpower your math knowledge!! Some people just can't take, in their guts,
losing, even in the short term - no matter how much money they have in the
bank and how much they know about the math and the long term.

I certainly won't mention any names but I know more smart and/or "rich"
people who play advantage VP very "scared" most of the time. Of course, you
know that being "scared" of losing money is what made most "rich" people
rich in the first place.

Developing a tolerance for losing is a learned skill. Most people are
surprised that I can take short-term losing as well as I do, considering my
basic frugal tendency to squeeze a dollar until it screams. However, I am
big on faith. Faith in God - and faith in the math. But, of course, I
still say it is more fun to win than to lose.

···

____________________
Jean $cott - "The Frugal Gambler"
Order autographed book, cassette tape, and the new
   Frugal VP software at http://www.frugalgambler.biz
Read Frugal Fridays at http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com

#3

Jean,

Speaking for myself I rarely play for more than 3 hours at a time since I
start getting careless. My session goal is usually based on a desire to put
in a certain amount of coin-in. Once I have hit that goal, if I am up a few
hundred I will often stop sooner than I might have. Also, I only bring a
limited amount of cash with me because I have endless sessions available
and don't mind stopping a really bad one before I reach my goal.

Of course, this is purely psychological. I know perfectly well that the
math says I should keep playing, which is why I often will even when losing
to achieve the goal. But it is also why I might stop sooner if I'm ahead
because it feels good to deposit a nice chunk in the bankroll account. And
then there is the ability to tell the story of being dealt Aces at $ DB and
a couple of more quads and ending the day up $1800. If I kept playing and
gave back $1000 it wouldn't be nearly as much fun to tell and, besides,
Tomski's story wouldn't have been as good if he hadn't been talked out of
his stopping point.

I wish I had your ability to completely ignore the day's results. If I have
a really bad day I don't get depressed or brood about it because I know
those days are inevitable. But I would not be true to myself if I didn't
let the psychological aspect have a certain amount of influence on when I stop.

All my best and wishing Brad a speedy recovery.

B

···

At 02:37 PM 03/16/2003 -0800, you wrote:

From VP Free: <<Reportedly it was over $1900 and they lost
>around $4000 chasing it.>>

Don't know the couple - but it could have been Brad and I - or any number of
wise advantage players. You don't open and close your books at the
beginning and end of ONE play. It was a good play when they began playing
it (I assume - I forget what the amount reported then was) and it became a
better play the higher the progressive went. Depending on their bankroll -
this was a very GOOD play that they were being wise in keeping at it - again
as long as they weren't too tired to play correctly. Hiding the progressive
amount was a personal "quirk" but we all have some of those lurking in our
mind.

They probably shouldn't have told people how much they lost - because most
people don't understand - seems that even a lot on this list don't yet
understand the basic concept of advantage play - "life is one long VP
session." Of course bitching about how much one is losing is not the
exclusive right of the non-advantage player - we all are human beings.
(Read this week's Frugal Fridays!) Or, they might have been using this
"complaining" as cover - to keep people - and the casino - from diagnosing
them as advantage players.

FROM Skip's list: Tomski: <<I got up to quit to lock up the win>>

You are my good friend and a math genius, but I will never understand you
when you make a statement like this. It just shows that psychological
considerations in playing VP play a HUGE part in the whole advantage play
picture. For you, Tomski, I think the psychological considerations
overpower your math knowledge!! Some people just can't take, in their guts,
losing, even in the short term - no matter how much money they have in the
bank and how much they know about the math and the long term.

I certainly won't mention any names but I know more smart and/or "rich"
people who play advantage VP very "scared" most of the time. Of course, you
know that being "scared" of losing money is what made most "rich" people
rich in the first place.

Developing a tolerance for losing is a learned skill. Most people are
surprised that I can take short-term losing as well as I do, considering my
basic frugal tendency to squeeze a dollar until it screams. However, I am
big on faith. Faith in God - and faith in the math. But, of course, I
still say it is more fun to win than to lose.

____________________
Jean $cott - "The Frugal Gambler"
Order autographed book, cassette tape, and the new
   Frugal VP software at
<http://www.frugalgambler.biz>http://www.frugalgambler.biz
Read Frugal Fridays at
<http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com>http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com

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#4

I certainly won't mention any names but I know more smart and/or "rich"
people who play advantage VP very "scared" most of the time. Of course,

you

know that being "scared" of losing money is what made most "rich" people
rich in the first place.

I must admit that I did not know that most rich people got rich because they
are scared of losing money. I was under the misconception that hard work,
intelligence and ability were major contributing factors.

Rasti$Rulz

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@lvcm.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "AA VP List" <vp-mail@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 4:37 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Losing at VP

#5

Let's look at reality for a minute. Assuming 800 hpr and normal distribution
of the other hands, losing $4000 in FPDW would require approx 400 hours or
320,000 hands without a royal. Even playing with a modified strategy for a
$1900 royal would make it 270 hours or about 216,000 hands. Of course, this
doesn't even include the $1900 royal they finally hit. Either their numbers
are wrong, they are Very Bad Deuces players, or they really "beat the odds".
stu in sf

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy C" <randyc@uclalumni.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 8:59 AM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Fiesta Rancho Progressives Addenda

>Reportedly it was over $1900 and they lost
>around $4000 chasing it.

This was a couple that was guarding the amount of the RF progressive with
their life practically. But they kept sharing how much they won or lost so
easily throughout the process?

#6

In Texas we say, when you're hot you're hot, when you're not you're not....
Nuff said.
  Rastis P for Patrick Rulz
                               ERIN GO BRAUGH
                 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp-heaven

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "1000MPH" <1000mph@msn.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Fiesta Rancho Progressives Addenda

Let's look at reality for a minute. Assuming 800 hpr and normal

distribution

of the other hands, losing $4000 in FPDW would require approx 400 hours or
320,000 hands without a royal. Even playing with a modified strategy for a
$1900 royal would make it 270 hours or about 216,000 hands. Of course,

this

doesn't even include the $1900 royal they finally hit. Either their

numbers

are wrong, they are Very Bad Deuces players, or they really "beat the

odds".

stu in sf

#7

Stu, thanks for the reality check on this one. Now I assumed that the
$4000 loss was before the final RF hit.

I find the loss plausible if we were talking in the neighborhood of 80
or 100 hours of total actual play (60000-80000 hands). It would be
extreme (very), but not unachievable by any means.

If we're talking only about half that, then (using an idiom I was
recently impressed by - Jean perhaps?) they were talking through the
seat of their chairs.

I haven't done the hard stats to come up with my numbers, but I fully
expect they're on target.

- Harry

1000MPH wrote:

Let's look at reality for a minute. Assuming 800 hpr and normal
distribution of the other hands, losing $4000 in FPDW would require
approx 400 hours or 320,000 hands without a royal. Even playing with
a modified strategy for a $1900 royal would make it 270 hours or
about 216,000 hands. Of course, this doesn't even include the $1900
royal they finally hit. Either their numbers are wrong, they are Very
Bad Deuces players, or they really "beat the odds". - stu in sf

Randy C wrote:

···

----- Original Message -----

> >Reportedly it was over $1900 and they lost
> >around $4000 chasing it.

#8

<<I must admit that I did not know that most rich people got rich because they
are scared of losing money. I was under the misconception that hard work,
intelligence and ability were major contributing factors.>>

Many work hard because they are "scared" of being poor when they are old. Of course, there are many other reasons. However, most people I know who have money do so because they were frugal when they did not have so much.

···

____________________
Jean $cott - "The Frugal Gambler"
Order autographed book, cassette tape, and the new
   Frugal VP software at http://www.frugalgambler.biz
Read Frugal Fridays at http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#9

I posted this on SHG. TomSki

Jean,
After my $700 win the other day I won $300 more the next night. I
quit to go eat, and debated on whether to play more. I had win 1000
straight against the drop, a huge number, I then thought of what you
wrote, so I went back and played more and not only did I lose back
the $300 but lost $141 more! ARRRAGHHHH!!! I went home kind of
bummed. Then next day I lost $440 more right away, then I hit four
aces. then I hit 4 aces again. Then sha-zaam! I spiked a 1 card
diamand royal! That makes 4 royals in 11 days! Amazing. I kept
playing and hit 4 aces again, but gave that portion back. Net for the
night I won $891. Sweet! I posted pic of dealt four aces from
previous play in the file section at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/files/Img_0027.jpg

Good luck. TomSki

--- In vp-mail@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@l...>
wrote:

FROM Skip's list: Tomski: <<I got up to quit to lock up the win>>

I will never understand you
when you make a statement like this. It just shows that

psychological

considerations in playing VP play a HUGE part in the whole

advantage play

picture. For you, Tomski, I think the psychological considerations
overpower your math knowledge!! Some people just can't take, in

their guts,

losing, even in the short term - no matter how much money they have

in the

···

bank and how much they know about the math and the long term.