vpFREE2 Forums

Few questions regarding Atlantis and Reno VP in general...

Sounds like your only objection is my use of "ER" for total money earned on
the play, vs. "EV," as value for one hand.

If I switched them, sorry for the confusion.

To me, Expected Return (like Return on Investment) means a total money
amount you will win on average. If this does not agree with the vpFREE glossary, I
can live with that.

I did define my terms with the equation I gave, so in context it should have
been understandable anyway. Quibbling about semantics defeats the purpose of
pointing out that speed (of all players who are playing max coins on the
bank), in addition to strategy, affects your average profit.

Brian

ยทยทยท

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In a message dated 2/6/2007 7:25:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
harry.porter@verizon.net writes:

I'll respectively disagree, Brian ... I assert that EV is affected by
the speed of others, not ER. You're correct in pointing out that the
speed of other affects the economics of your play. The faster they
play, the smaller the likelihood that you'll be the one to hit the
meter on any one RF cycle on the bank.

However, no matter what their speed, the average value of the meter
when hit is unchanged, one of the two variables I identified in
determining your play ER.

The other variable, the strategy that you employ is also unchanged.
Consequently, there's no impact to your ER.

A modestly different form of the equation you cite:
Total EV per play period = ER x hands played in period

If you assume that you walk into a casino and play the progressive
bank until it's hit, the faster others play, the fewer hands you can
be expected to have played when the bank is hit. With constant ER,
the EV for that session falls proportionately to the increase in other
player speed.

Still, your EV per hour is changed. ER and hands played are constants
for a specific period of time. It's only when the period is expressed
as time between hits on the bank that your EV falls as a consequence
of your expected lower total playing time.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

bjaygold wrote:

Sounds like your only objection is my use of "ER" for total money
earned on the play, vs. "EV," as value for one hand.

If I switched them, sorry for the confusion.

To me, Expected Return (like Return on Investment) means a total
money amount you will win on average. If this does not agree with the
vpFREE glossary, I can live with that.

I did define my terms with the equation I gave, so in context it
should have been understandable anyway. Quibbling about semantics
defeats the purpose of pointing out that speed (of all players who
are playing max coins on the bank), in addition to strategy, affects
your average profit.

After submitting my comments I did find, upon rereading, that there
was a disjoint between your lead in statement that prompted my reply
and the subtext of what followed. I chose to wait on entering a
further reply rather than stumble around in followup (as I often do).

I'd suggest that my comments weren't a matter of semantics, or to the
extent they were, they weren't quibbling. One can only interpret
things as they're written (and while reasonable effort should be given
to infer intent, it's not always practical to give that consideration
-- on my first read, it didn't happen).

You compare ER with ROI. They're similar concepts; both express a
relationship between payback and the underlying investment -- that
relationship is a percentage or ratio. EV is, as you suggest, what
you were going for as reference to expected profit from play - whether
one hand or more.

- Harry