vpFREE2 Forums

Fences, Polls, and Humble Opinions...

#21

Chandler. I think to some extent ALL the factors you listed are true. Argument A, Argument B and the Gaming Industry factors. It is life and change. And no one is to blame specifically.

I am glad for the info that BD, JS etc brought to the light of day although I am sure it has had an affect to some extent. I am also sure lack of customer demand does not help retain good games. This is not an either/or situation. There are more than 2 sides to this coin. It is more like the 99 sided dice that we used to use for playing D&D.

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Chandler" <omnibibulous1@comcast.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 9:12 AM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Fences, Polls, and Humble Opinions...

A good argument against popular "best of polls." Casino Player. LVRJ. I'm
always amused by the results.

It seems to me that two of the popular flavors to the people ringing the vp
death knell are:

Argument A. Knowledge of advantage vp has spread to such an extent that all
of the players are "killing" the good plays. This argument often is an
adjunct to criticism of the likes of BD or JS or even vpFREE, who are
selling/giving away all of the information that should be protected...
presumably protected for those who already have it.

Agument B. Most gamblers are so dense that they wouldn't know a rock if it
hit them between the eyes. They understand nothing of pay tables or
strategy and they stubbornly refuse to learn common information about the
product that they consume. They remain bovinely oblivious and are quite
happy to plug a 6/5 DDB game one coin at a time. Therefore, there is no
consumer demand that would drive a casino to better games.

Sometimes I see the same individuals making both arguments which is odd. I
am definitely in the latter camp, but so long as people are hypothesizing, I
would add that any reduction in vp inventory or advantage opportunity may be
driven by other forces in the gaming industry. Corporitization. Mergers.
Expansion. Technology. The business has changed a lot quickly and these
changes have an effect on the gambling product.

Chandler

#22

Agument B. ... that any reduction in vp inventory or
advantage opportunity may be driven by other forces
in the gaming industry. Corporitization. Mergers. ...

I can't agree with this more. Every person who works
for a publically traded company can see this. You have
to have year over year profit growth of X%. There are
only two tools to do it with. Revenue growth or lowering your
cost of revenue. Particularly true for this industry where
they look at EBITAD. These pressures filter from the board
room to the casino floor where slot managers have to
make P&L decisions to satisfy their bosses. Shorting
a pay table is a no brainer, particularly if people keep
playing once you make the change. Heck, the rubes line
up at the strip joints to play whatever you put out. I've
seen them 3 deep at the big-6 table what's a little 6/5 JOB.

#23

I agree with "ednar", it is really a matter of niche markets. Some
(most) players are indifferent to pay-schedules, let's give them the
96% games. Some people want good pay-schedules 99%+, hey these guys
can still be profitable, let's make sure we have enough machines for
this group, maybe even market our great inventory to them! Some
people will only play advantage games 100%+, let's get rid of this
niche group, while we're at it maybe we should fire the slot director
who put in those machines!

thymos_one
Casino Comps
New Group Dedicated to Tracking Casino Comps
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/casino_comps/

I am also sure lack of customer demand does not help retain good

games. This is not an either/or situation. There are more than 2
sides to this coin.<<<

From: "Chandler" <omnibibulous1@c...>

It seems to me that two of the popular flavors to the people

ringing the vp death knell are:

Argument A. Knowledge of advantage vp has spread to such an extent
that all of the players are "killing" the good plays.>>>

Agument B. Most gamblers are so dense that they wouldn't know a rock
if it hit them between the eyes. They understand nothing of pay
tables or strategy and they stubbornly refuse to learn common
information about the product that they consume.>>>

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ednar" <ednar@k...> wrote:

----- Original Message -----

#24

Exactly. My recurring chestnut is that many of the forces driving these
changes may not be driven by a reaction to the player at all. I was in
Harrah's Reno a couple of weeks ago and it seemed the majority of blackjack
tables were 6/5... and they were doing good business. Basic strategy and
advantage BJ play has been around for decades, yet 6/5 comes along in just
the last few years. It is not just vp, and it is not just positive (which
casinos make money on, BTW) vp that is affected. It is too bad that when
there are substantial changes that hurt the player there is not more
consumer resistance.

Chandler

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
worldbefree22001
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 1:59 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Fences, Polls, and Humble Opinions…

Agument B. ... that any reduction in vp inventory or
advantage opportunity may be driven by other forces
in the gaming industry. Corporitization. Mergers. ...

I can't agree with this more. Every person who works
for a publically traded company can see this. You have
to have year over year profit growth of X%. There are
only two tools to do it with. Revenue growth or lowering your
cost of revenue. Particularly true for this industry where
they look at EBITAD. These pressures filter from the board
room to the casino floor where slot managers have to
make P&L decisions to satisfy their bosses. Shorting
a pay table is a no brainer, particularly if people keep
playing once you make the change. Heck, the rubes line
up at the strip joints to play whatever you put out. I've
seen them 3 deep at the big-6 table what's a little 6/5 JOB.

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#25

From: "Chandler" <omnibibulous1@comcast.net>

It is too bad that when

there are substantial changes that hurt the player there is not more
consumer resistance.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

My Mom is 70 years old, loves to play card games for the interaction with the players. Teaching her VP would be like teaching a pig to sing - not only impossible, but annoys the hell out of the pig.

When we stay at the LVH she will sometimes play the single deck. When I tried to point out the short pay of the 6/5 game her response we, "I don't get that many blackjacks anyway". Last session we were there she pulled over $500 out of that pit play pretty low stakes.

Sigh..........

SK
"No one ever says "It's only a game,"
when their team is winning."

"Ever notice that people who spend money on beer,
cigarettes, and lottery tickets are always complaining
about being broke and not feeling well?"

"It's lonely at the top, but you eat better."

"There are more important things in life than money
- but women won't go out with you if you're broke."