vpFREE2 Forums

Feeling Guilty - Trip Report

Moving to higher denominations to win back your losses is common behavior among beginning gamblers, and extremely dangerous. It will usually work, but the consequences of failure can be catastrophic. If you are sufficiently self-disciplined to promptly call it quits after you�ve ramped up from quarters to halves to dollars, and failed, then fine. Not too much damage done, aside from having blown your bankroll in just a few minutes.

The greater danger lies in routinely seating players at a denomination that is way beyond their means. It goes like this: $100 down on quarters? Let�s get it back playing dollars! Soon, you�re $1000 down on dollars and trying to get it back playing $5 machines. Stupid, but you�re livid and scared and not making good decisions. Pretty soon, the ATM cards are maxed out, the credit cards are maxed out. Casinos call it �chasing�, players call it playing on �tilt�. Bankruptcy lawyers call it �a new client�. Your life is ruined, all for the sake of trying to be a �winner� for a day. This scenario alone is enough for most gambling authors to consider the advocating of such methods to be downright irresponsible. It�s like teaching student drivers to drive 100 MPH, because you�ll get there sooner and most of the time nothing bad will happen.

behavior among beginning gamblers, and extremely dangerous. It will
usually work, but the consequences of failure can be catastrophic. If
you are sufficiently self-disciplined to promptly call it quits after
you've ramped up from quarters to halves to dollars, and failed, then
fine. Not too much damage done, aside from having blown your
bankroll in just a few minutes.

Fortunately, I do have that much discipline to set a loss limit for
each session. You are correct that if one simply keeps increasing
there is a risk of total ruin.

My session bankroll is $700 going from $1BP, $1DDB, $2BP, $2DDB. My
goal, once I have to progress, is to only recoup my loss. This
progression seems to fit my psychological makeup just fine.

I don't know if most people would be able to handle this kind of
thing but I have constantly failed when I play for long-term gain as
I used to. I would sit for HOURS at FPDW and typically lose for the
trip. So far, I have been much more successful this way.

I know that the long-term math says I will never win in the long-
term. However, so far I'm so far ahead of the game doing it "my" way
that until proven otherwise, I'll keep plugging away.

If all I've had is good luck, then I certainly hope it continues.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, John Kelly <lodestone@...> wrote:

Moving to higher denominations to win back your losses is common

I just want to thank everyone (or at least most everyone) for the
responses to this. In the past I've seen personal attacks when someone
admits to playing less than 100% games.

The responses have been honest, intelligent, and "adult."

I have enjoyed the conversations.

Rick

Gee, John, your scenario seems exaggerated and scary.
You're down $100 on quarters, you lose all semblence of reason and,
in a few sentences, your Life is Ruined!!??!!

Sounds like having a Plan and a bankroll to support the Plan and
sticking to the Plan is important. Your scenario sounds like,
instead, someone got hypnotized in the casino and made some poor
decisions due to a crazed gambler's frenzy.

If it were me, after $1000 loss at quarters (not $100), I'd move up
to 50c denom, (not jump to $1). After losing approx one Royal's
worth at the lower denomination, I would move up just one "denom":
$1's, then $2 coin (not jump to $5). I probably can't afford the $5
denoms, so I would have to stop at $2. I 've played about 10 hrs at
$2 & $5 denom comnbined in about 100 full days of VP play in the
past 4 years. And my life hasn't yet been ruined nor come close.

But then again, we all know a guy who played the $100 denom even
though he didn't have the bankroll for it and became a millionaire
as a reward for his risk. Heck, he even wrote a book about the
experience! Maybe this book is dangerous to the underbankrolled
dreamers: it should have a warning on it: "Don't try this 'at home'-
professionals only."

I didn't move up in denom as a beginner gambler - it took me a while
to gain the confidence to play correctly at the higher denoms
without making mistakes due to nervousness. I DO agree with you
there: you shouldn't play "over your head" if the worry overwhelms
and distracts your play. Having a large trip bankroll goes a long
way to appease nervousness.

I don't know any authors who advocate playing over your head. In
fact, I think most authors suggest you play with a Plan and within
your comfort zone on the best pay tables available.

I also doubt you can blow your bankroll in "a few minutes" unless
you are grossly under-bankrolled. It takes me 15 - 20 hrs at single
line quarters on a typical "bad run" to lose $1000. At which point I
move up to 50c denom. Anyhow, I haven't played enough to have
meaningful stats, and I don't think they would be valid data for
arguments one way or the other. But I DO know that 50c and $1 denoms
are not that scary, I don't think players start tapping out credit
lines because they play at that level. In fact, when you DO hit a
Royal or a high "mini-jackpot" like quad Aces in a bonus game at
these levels, you DO tend to recoup all your losses at the lower
denoms. I practice this way at home and it is gratifying to learn
that it does even out sooner or later most all the time.

I know a scary story will drive home your point to the gullible, but
I think your main message is "Don't get carried away." and I sure
agree with that.

Anyone who wants to chat specifics can try me via private e-mail.

~MARK

--- John Kelly <lodestone@...> wrote:

Moving to higher denominations to win back your losses is common

behavior among beginning gamblers, and extremely dangerous. It will
usually work, but the consequences of failure can be catastrophic.
If you are sufficiently self-disciplined to promptly call it quits
after you've ramped up from quarters to halves to dollars, and
failed, then fine. Not too much damage done, aside from having
blown your bankroll in just a few minutes.

The greater danger lies in routinely seating players at a

denomination that is way beyond their means. It goes like this: $100
down on quarters? Let's get it back playing dollars! Soon, you're
$1000 down on dollars and trying to get it back playing $5 machines.
Stupid, but you're livid and scared and not making good decisions.
Pretty soon, the ATM cards are maxed out, the credit cards are maxed
out. Casinos call it "chasing", players call it playing on "tilt".
Bankruptcy lawyers call it "a new client". Your life is ruined, all
for the sake of trying to be a "winner" for a day. This scenario
alone is enough for most gambling authors to consider the advocating
of such methods to be downright irresponsible. It's like teaching
student drivers to drive 100 MPH, because you'll get there sooner
and most of the time nothing bad will happen.

···

Thank you for putting into words what I'm not intelligent enough to
post.

This is exactly the CONCEPT I use when I play.

Gee, John, your scenario seems exaggerated and scary.
You're down $100 on quarters, you lose all semblence of reason and,
in a few sentences, your Life is Ruined!!??!!

Sounds like having a Plan and a bankroll to support the Plan and
sticking to the Plan is important. Your scenario sounds like,
instead, someone got hypnotized in the casino and made some poor
decisions due to a crazed gambler's frenzy.

If it were me, after $1000 loss at quarters (not $100), I'd move up
to 50c denom, (not jump to $1). After losing approx one Royal's
worth at the lower denomination, I would move up just one "denom":
$1's, then $2 coin (not jump to $5). I probably can't afford the

$5

denoms, so I would have to stop at $2. I 've played about 10 hrs at
$2 & $5 denom comnbined in about 100 full days of VP play in the
past 4 years. And my life hasn't yet been ruined nor come close.

But then again, we all know a guy who played the $100 denom even
though he didn't have the bankroll for it and became a millionaire
as a reward for his risk. Heck, he even wrote a book about the
experience! Maybe this book is dangerous to the underbankrolled
dreamers: it should have a warning on it: "Don't try this 'at home'-

professionals only."

I didn't move up in denom as a beginner gambler - it took me a

while

to gain the confidence to play correctly at the higher denoms
without making mistakes due to nervousness. I DO agree with you
there: you shouldn't play "over your head" if the worry overwhelms
and distracts your play. Having a large trip bankroll goes a long
way to appease nervousness.

I don't know any authors who advocate playing over your head. In
fact, I think most authors suggest you play with a Plan and within
your comfort zone on the best pay tables available.

I also doubt you can blow your bankroll in "a few minutes" unless
you are grossly under-bankrolled. It takes me 15 - 20 hrs at

single

line quarters on a typical "bad run" to lose $1000. At which point

I

move up to 50c denom. Anyhow, I haven't played enough to have
meaningful stats, and I don't think they would be valid data for
arguments one way or the other. But I DO know that 50c and $1

denoms

are not that scary, I don't think players start tapping out credit
lines because they play at that level. In fact, when you DO hit a
Royal or a high "mini-jackpot" like quad Aces in a bonus game at
these levels, you DO tend to recoup all your losses at the lower
denoms. I practice this way at home and it is gratifying to learn
that it does even out sooner or later most all the time.

I know a scary story will drive home your point to the gullible,

but

I think your main message is "Don't get carried away." and I sure
agree with that.

Anyone who wants to chat specifics can try me via private e-mail.

~MARK

--- John Kelly <lodestone@> wrote:
>
> Moving to higher denominations to win back your losses is common
behavior among beginning gamblers, and extremely dangerous. It will
usually work, but the consequences of failure can be catastrophic.
If you are sufficiently self-disciplined to promptly call it quits
after you've ramped up from quarters to halves to dollars, and
failed, then fine. Not too much damage done, aside from having
blown your bankroll in just a few minutes.
>
> The greater danger lies in routinely seating players at a
denomination that is way beyond their means. It goes like this:

$100

down on quarters? Let's get it back playing dollars! Soon, you're
$1000 down on dollars and trying to get it back playing $5

machines.

Stupid, but you're livid and scared and not making good decisions.
Pretty soon, the ATM cards are maxed out, the credit cards are

maxed

out. Casinos call it "chasing", players call it playing on "tilt".
Bankruptcy lawyers call it "a new client". Your life is ruined, all
for the sake of trying to be a "winner" for a day. This scenario
alone is enough for most gambling authors to consider the

advocating

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark_my_words_again@...> wrote:

of such methods to be downright irresponsible. It's like teaching
student drivers to drive 100 MPH, because you'll get there sooner
and most of the time nothing bad will happen.
>