I got kicked out yesterday for only playing on 3x point days. They
got on the computer when I cashed out and went through my play. Told
me I wasn't welcomed there.
El Cortez 3x points
Hi Richard,
Is that in fact the only time you played there? Never on single
point days? Were you cashing out your cash-back for the day when
they trespassed you? If so, wouldn't it have been more prudent to
leave the cash there for another day? This is pretty much like
waving a red flag in the direction of a Bull. We all know that the
casinos have cracked down on advantage players. Why incite them
further?
Did tbey close your account and tell you that you could never come
back to play there again? Did you try to protest or give any kind
of explanation that might cause them to rethink their decision?
IMO, It would seem that we all need to be a little more careful
while trying to squeeze the last possible dime out of casinos,
before ALL advantage play and worthwhile promotions are a thing of
the past.
Babe
I got kicked out yesterday for only playing on 3x point days. They
got on the computer when I cashed out and went through my play.
Told
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richardef4" <richardef4@y...> wrote:
me I wasn't welcomed there.
Let me make sure I understand this; you were evicted from the El
Cortez and asked never to return? Incredible as it may seem, that
might be a good thing.
I got kicked out yesterday for only playing on 3x point days. They
got on the computer when I cashed out and went through my play.
Told
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richardef4" <richardef4@y...> wrote:
me I wasn't welcomed there.
Sorry to hear that. It sounds like something the El Cortez would do.
This place has a reputation as being extremely hostile to anyone that
they see as an advantage player. Even so, I think it is stupid and
shortsighted for a casino to kick out players for playing only on
multi-point days. For one thing, the purpose of having these
promotions in the first place is to lure more gamblers into the
casino that may not otherwise show up. That's why recurring multi-
point days are often in the middle of the week - they're trying to
get more warm bodies into the place on an otherwise slow day. And
then they are going to bar you for taking them up on the offer???
Imagine going into a department store for a big day after
Thanksgiving sale, and having the sales clerk say "Sir, our records
indicate that you have only visited us three times - always on the
day after Thanksgiving for our big sale. We're going to have to ask
you to leave." You would howl if this happened at a retail store,
but the casino is doing the same thing.
Here's an example of why kicking out players who only play on multi-
point days is so stupid. Suppose a particular casino has a recurring
triple point day - let's just say Mondays. There could be any large
number of people that always have Monday off (perhaps they work in
resturants that are closed on Mondays), and so this becomes
their "casino" day. They could play reel slots or be the worst VP
players in the world, but it just so happens that they always show up
on triple point day because it fits in with their schedule. How dumb
would the casino be to kick out these types of players for only
playing on triple point day?
Another poster mentioned that as some sort of "cover" you might not
want to cash out your points on the same day as you earned them on
triple point day. I'm not sure if this would have made any
difference. This kind of decision would not be made on the spot by
the slot club boothling. More than likely someone much higher up had
gone through their computer records and had already decided to throw
you out (likely other players also) - and probably left a flag to
this effect in your player record that popped up when you went to the
slot club. Whether you cashed out your points then or the next day
would not have made any difference. Plus, just as a practical
matter, isn't is fairly normal for people to cash out their points on
the day they earn them? You might not be coming back for awhile, so
you may as well go ahead and get your cash back right away. Or maybe
you want to get some food, or collect the gift of the month. May as
well go ahead and cash out your points while you're there in line at
the slot club. And personally, if I have earned a large amount of
cash back in one day, I almost always collect it right then, mainly
just to make sure it's really there! It's all too common for large
blocks of points to just vanish into thin air. You have a much
better chance of recovering lost points if you bring it up right then
just after you have finished playing rather than trying to argue over
lost points several weeks later.
It was also suggested that maybe you should have played occasionally
on non-multi point days. At some casinos, this is a possibility and
could indeed be a good idea. At other casinos however, this approach
is just not feasible (at least not if you want to win any money).
Here's a real example of the latter. A certain casino that I play at
has a recurring multi-point day. The VP at this casino is not very
good, but on multi-point day I can play a break-even game until I get
a certain amount of points, and stay qualified for the weekly bounce
back coupons. This takes about 3 hours of play, one day per month.
If I tried this on a non-multi-point day, my expected losses even
with cash back would wipe out my monthly bounce back coupons. No
thanks. What about putting in just a small amount of play on a non-
bonus day. Nope - I tried this once. All it did was to mess up my
trip average and actually reduced my monthly mailers for a while.
Look, I know it's not the casinos' responsibility to offer us
opportunities to make money. But they want to have their cake and
eat it too. They want to be able to advertise that they offer good
games, or triple point days, or whatever, but they don't want anyone
to come in there that can actually take advantage of these offers.
At the very least they could be honest and put up a big sign that
says "suckers only please".
One last thought: Remember when people would say that one of the
good things about video poker was that backoffs were extremely rare
and we don't have to try to disguise our play like blackjack players
do? This was just a few years ago.
EE
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richardef4" <richardef4@y...> wrote:
I got kicked out yesterday for only playing on 3x point days. They
got on the computer when I cashed out and went through my play. Told
me I wasn't welcomed there.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hi ee,
I think you make some intelligent and interesting points, which I
will comment on below.
Babe
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richardef4" <richardef4@y...>
wrote:
>
> I got kicked out yesterday for only playing on 3x point days.
They
> got on the computer when I cashed out and went through my play.
Told
> me I wasn't welcomed there.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sorry to hear that. It sounds like something the El Cortez would
do.
This place has a reputation as being extremely hostile to anyone
that
they see as an advantage player
In that case, I guess that, luckily for me,
they don't see me as an "advantage" player, though according to the
BDWP statistics, I play most of the VP games that I favor, at close
to 100% accuracy. Also, my main games of choice at the EC are
Downtown Double Deuces and KBJW, both of which pay back 100%+ with
optimum play. Despite this, I have NEVER had a problem there, and
have always been treated with courtesy. I might add that I am also
very polite when requesting comps, special services etc., and
despite playing mostly .25 denom. single-line 100% payback vp, have
never been turned down for any request.
···
- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "eecounter" <eecounter@h...> wrote:
Even so, I think it is stupid and
shortsighted for a casino to kick out players for playing only on
multi-point days. For one thing, the purpose of having these
promotions in the first place is to lure more gamblers into the
casino that may not otherwise show up. That's why recurring multi-
point days are often in the middle of the week - they're trying to
get more warm bodies into the place on an otherwise slow day. And
then they are going to bar you for taking them up on the
offer???
I agree with all the above. I think it is a
poor business practice as well, and will eventually have a
deleterious effect on the casino's ability to lure players whose
theo is high enough to give them a substantial profit above the
higher CB they are bestowing on 3X points days. However, I can't
blame the casino for wanting players to be regular customers, and
not those who show up only for promotions. I stand by my original
assertion that continuely taking advantage of promotions ONLY, and
not giving the casino any other play, will cause them to withdraw or
rethink future offers. This is NOT, however,IMO, a reasonable excuse
for barring/trespassing someone from future play.
===============================================================
Imagine going into a department store for a big day after
Thanksgiving sale, and having the sales clerk say "Sir, our
records
indicate that you have only visited us three times - always on the
day after Thanksgiving for our big sale. We're going to have to
ask
you to leave."
<snip>
Of course this would be ridiculous and will never
happen. I don't think, however, that it is a really good analogy.
The department store will make some kind of small profit, or at
least free up money for new purchases, even on the most deeply
discounted merchandise, that they are attempting to sell at their
sale. The casino, conversely, can LOSE money on patrons who play
only when they have a "special" advantage. We all know how casinos
react when their bottom line is threatened. They will do whatever
is necessary to remedy the situation, usually much to the detriment
of the all players.
===============================================
<snip>
Another poster mentioned that as some sort of "cover" you might
not
want to cash out your points on the same day as you earned them on
triple point day. I'm not sure if this would have made any
difference. This kind of decision would not be made on the spot
by
the slot club boothling. More than likely someone much higher up
had
gone through their computer records and had already decided to
throw
you out (likely other players also) - and probably left a flag to
this effect in your player record that popped up when you went to
the
slot club. Whether you cashed out your points then or the next day
would not have made any difference.
Perhaps, perhaps not. I don't know enough
about what goes into the calculation of the theoretical loss for
each player to comment on what action is likely to get them barred.
However, it makes sense to me that, coming back to play on another
non-3X points day, and then requesting avaibable CB, after that
session, would at least appear to be a less egregious act in the
eyes of the casino. It's possible that I'm being naive, but that is
my feeling.
=============================================
Plus, just as a practical
matter, isn't is fairly normal for people to cash out their points
on
the day they earn them? You might not be coming back for awhile,
so
you may as well go ahead and get your cash back right away. Or
maybe
you want to get some food, or collect the gift of the month. May
as
well go ahead and cash out your points while you're there in line
at
the slot club. And personally, if I have earned a large amount of
cash back in one day, I almost always collect it right then,
mainly
just to make sure it's really there! It's all too common for
large
blocks of points to just vanish into thin air. You have a much
better chance of recovering lost points if you bring it up right
then
just after you have finished playing rather than trying to argue
over
lost points several weeks later.
Having points disappear has never
happened to me in the many years that I have played and used slot
cards to track my play. I have had the experience of not being
properly credited for play when finishing a session. This error has
always been corrected, on tbe spot, by slot club personnel, who are
able to open the machine and determine what credits should have been
given. Because I've been fortunate in this regard, I've never
hesitated to leave substantial amounts of CB in various slot club
accounts. Possibly this is foolhardy, but so far I have not been
burned. I think my "reasoning" is that, having some money to
access in these accounts, might come in handy someday, when I've
been doing unusually poorly, and my bankroll could benefit from a
little help. Every so often (perhaps every 3rd trip I take) I do
cash out at least half of the accumulated CB.
========================================================
It was also suggested that maybe you should have played
occasionally
on non-multi point days. At some casinos, this is a possibility
and
could indeed be a good idea. At other casinos however, this
approach
is just not feasible (at least not if you want to win any money).
Here's a real example of the latter. A certain casino that I play
at
has a recurring multi-point day. The VP at this casino is not
very
good,
Certainly a well thought out point.
However, at the El Cortez, there is still GOOD advantage vp to be
found, which (if you find yourself on the good side of the bell
curve) can be played profitably even without 3X points.
<snip>
===================================================
but on multi-point day I can play a break-even game until I get
a certain amount of points, and stay qualified for the weekly
bounce
back coupons. This takes about 3 hours of play, one day per
month.
If I tried this on a non-multi-point day, my expected losses even
with cash back would wipe out my monthly bounce back coupons.
I'm not quite sure I understand why you would
want to patronize a casino, or care much about qualifyimg for their
bounce-back coupons, if their vp is so poor to begin with.
Especially since some good opportunties still exist to play at
casinos with advantageous pay schedules.
<snip>
Look, I know it's not the casinos' responsibility to offer us
opportunities to make money. But they want to have their cake and
eat it too. They want to be able to advertise that they offer
good
games, or triple point days, or whatever, but they don't want
anyone
to come in there that can actually take advantage of these
offers.
At the very least they could be honest and put up a big sign that
says "suckers only please".
Please know that I am solidly on the side of the
vp player (which, after all, I am also) when I say that I think the
casinos have a right (and sometimes a DUTY to shareholders)to try to
engender some loyalty in their player base. Part of demonstrating
that loyalty (or gratitude for offering additional lucrative
promotions) might be to require some play from their patrons, even
when they are not offering additional juicy enticements.
==========================================>
One last thought: Remember when people would say that one of the
good things about video poker was that backoffs were extremely
rare
and we don't have to try to disguise our play like blackjack
players
do? This was just a few years ago.
And my last thought on the subject. I think that
these barrings are still reasonably rare, at the EC and elsewhere.
But I also believe that they will become commonplace, if we don't
discipline ourselves to "take some, and leave some". Just my
opinion of course. Feel free to disagree.
Happy New Year to all.
Babe
EE
It seems pretty simple to me. The El Cortez has long reputation as a
complete dump that sweats any action greatly. Anyone that appears to
have the slightest idea of how to play blackjack intelligently that
is to say, they have a notion of how the game is affected when a bunch
of smal cards are on the table is given the bum's rush, and has been
for years. Why should smart VP players be any different? Furthermore,
why would anyone want play there for any reason? (Maybe if they had DW
that paid 6-for-1 on quads, but even then I'd give it some thought.)
El Cortez's slogan should be, "At Least We're Better Than the Western."
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "realkyhick" <realkyhick@y...> wrot F
why would anyone want play there for any reason?
Only 3 reasons:
1. Downtown Deuces
2. KBJW
3. 10/7DB
Hi to all and Happy New Year, I just have to comment on this
thread. I am not an advantage player and play almost exclusively
nickels for recreation. El Cortez and Main Street Station (and
sometimes Plaza and Vegas Club) are the only Las Vegas casinos that
EVER send me anything. At El Cortez, I get free rooms and food when
most places would disdain me. AND the tower rooms in the El Cortez
are very nice since they have been remodeled with expensive-looking
furniture (much nicer than any of the other three casinos mentioned
above). The food in Careful Kitty's is edible and filling (although
the staff is not always too friendly). I agree the El Cortez is in
a bad location and quite smoky, but for the nickel recreational
player, I find it to be a good choice! Lisa
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@y...>
wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "realkyhick" <realkyhick@y...> wrot
F
···
> why would anyone want play there for any reason?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Only 3 reasons:
1. Downtown Deuces
2. KBJW
3. 10/7DB
->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi Lisa,
Happy New Year to you too! I hope you spend New Year's day at the
EC getting a Royal or two.
I agree with your assessment of the old EC. I have stayed at almost
all the hotels downtown plus the Palms (where I LOVE the VP, but
HATE the ambiance) and a couple of lesser strip casinos, all on a
comped basis. I have also stayed at the luxury properties such as
Bellagio and Venetian at a casino rate with some food comps. I still
keep returning to the EC. Why? Because of their machine inventory
(so far!) and because they treat me very well. Also, though I know
there is no logical reason for this, I usually do well at the EC,
and manage to hang on to most of my bankroll, if I don't actually
come out ahead.
Being basically a single-line .25 denom., FPDW & FPKBJW player
(though averaging 10-12 hours of daily play, during a 4-5 day stay)
I do not expect to be comped by a fancy strip casino. Nor would I
WANT to stay at one due to the inferior quality of most of their vp
pay schedules.
I can and do stay at 5 star hotels in other locales. When I'm in
LV, my main concern is finding/playing FPVP.
BTW, I am usually by my self in LV. My husband is not the VP nut
that I am, and usually only goes with me a couple of times a year.
Nevertheless, I have NEVER felt unsafe at the EC. There is plenty of
security around at all times. However, I do not walk the one "bad
block" between the EC and LV Blvd., by myself, at night. I do my
casino hopping during the daylight hours, and spend tbe evenings at
the EC.
The one thing I really dislike about the EC, is the smokiness.
However, it seems to me, that in tbe last year or two, even that has
improved. Contending with second-hand smoke is something that one
either puts up with at ANY casino, or I'm afraid, keeps one out of
the casino enviornment altogether. I'm not sure that this is much
worse at the EC, than elsewhere.
Anyway, until/unless the powers-that-be at the EC, ruin the vp
inventory, I will continue to favor them with my patronage.
Babe
Hi to all and Happy New Year, I just have to comment on this
thread. I am not an advantage player and play almost exclusively
nickels for recreation. El Cortez and Main Street Station (and
sometimes Plaza and Vegas Club) are the only Las Vegas casinos
that
EVER send me anything. At El Cortez, I get free rooms and food
when
most places would disdain me. AND the tower rooms in the El
Cortez
are very nice since they have been remodeled with expensive-
looking
furniture (much nicer than any of the other three casinos
mentioned
above). The food in Careful Kitty's is edible and filling
(although
the staff is not always too friendly). I agree the El Cortez is
in
a bad location and quite smoky, but for the nickel recreational
player, I find it to be a good choice! Lisa--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe"
<jackessiebabe@y...>
wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "realkyhick" <realkyhick@y...>
wrot
···
-- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "lisaremy" <lisaremy@y...> wrote:
F
>
>
> > why would anyone want play there for any reason?
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Only 3 reasons:
>
> 1. Downtown Deuces
> 2. KBJW
> 3. 10/7DB
I even stay at the original old rooms above the casino. Why people
would pay to stay ($$$$ or play time on bad machines or tables) on
the strip is the real question.
Hi to all and Happy New Year, I just have to comment on this
thread. I am not an advantage player and play almost exclusively
nickels for recreation. El Cortez and Main Street Station (and
sometimes Plaza and Vegas Club) are the only Las Vegas casinos that
EVER send me anything. At El Cortez, I get free rooms and food
when
most places would disdain me. AND the tower rooms in the El Cortez
are very nice since they have been remodeled with expensive-looking
furniture (much nicer than any of the other three casinos mentioned
above). The food in Careful Kitty's is edible and filling
(although
the staff is not always too friendly). I agree the El Cortez is in
a bad location and quite smoky, but for the nickel recreational
player, I find it to be a good choice! Lisa--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@y...>
wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "realkyhick" <realkyhick@y...>
wrot
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "lisaremy" <lisaremy@y...> wrote:
F
>
>
> > why would anyone want play there for any reason?
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Only 3 reasons:
>
> 1. Downtown Deuces
> 2. KBJW
> 3. 10/7DB
I too like the El Cortez for all the reasons that Babe mentions and many of yours. There is one other aspect that I particulary like about the "tez" and that is the NYC-Phila "edge" that many of the locals seem to carry. I was visiting Las Vegas a month ago and when my wife allows me to go solo I spend at least a few days down town. I was sitting at the near empty bar playing JOB when this person (who I can only describe without being too unkind as that witch in Oz that was after Dorothy) She sits down beside me and proceeds to blow smoke in my face. Now this would normally disturb me since I don't smoke but in this case it was a blessing since it helped with her BO. I figured by then she wanted attention so in my most pleasant voice I said "how do you do"? Big mistake- "What the h--- G-- d--- business of yours is that"? I kindly replied "none actually,now that I think about it". She ranted for while and the bartender could see I was amused by all of this and he just rolled his
eyes. As I left the bar I gave the Bartender a ten and asked him to get Tabitha what she wanted to drink. These people are another reason I care for the El Cortez and I hope Jackie lives forever. Russ
I even stay at the original old rooms above the casino. Why people
would pay to stay ($$$$ or play time on bad machines or tables) on
the strip is the real question.
Hi to all and Happy New Year, I just have to comment on this
thread. I am not an advantage player and play almost exclusively
nickels for recreation. El Cortez and Main Street Station (and
sometimes Plaza and Vegas Club) are the only Las Vegas casinos that
EVER send me anything. At El Cortez, I get free rooms and food
when
most places would disdain me. AND the tower rooms in the El Cortez
are very nice since they have been remodeled with expensive-looking
furniture (much nicer than any of the other three casinos mentioned
above). The food in Careful Kitty's is edible and filling
(although
the staff is not always too friendly). I agree the El Cortez is in
a bad location and quite smoky, but for the nickel recreational
player, I find it to be a good choice! Lisa--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@y...>
wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "realkyhick" <realkyhick@y...>
wrot
F
>
>
> > why would anyone want play there for any reason?
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Only 3 reasons:
>
> 1. Downtown Deuces
> 2. KBJW
> 3. 10/7DB
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
···
Michael Boutot <vegas_iwish@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "lisaremy" <lisaremy@y...> wrote:
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vpFREE-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Russell Hunsberger
<russellhunsberger@y...> wrote:
I too like the El Cortez for all the reasons that Babe mentions
and many of yours. There is one other aspect that I particulary like
about the "tez" and that is the NYC-Phila "edge" that many of the
locals seem to carry. I was visiting Las Vegas a month ago and when
my wife allows me to go solo I spend at least a few days down town.
I was sitting at the near empty bar playing JOB when this person
(who I can only describe without being too unkind as that witch in
Oz that was after Dorothy) She sits down beside me and proceeds to
blow smoke in my face. Now this would normally disturb me since I
don't smoke but in this case it was a blessing since it helped with
her BO. I figured by then she wanted attention so in my most
pleasant voice I said "how do you do"? Big mistake- "What the h--- G-
- d--- business of yours is that"? I kindly replied "none
actually,now that I think about it". She ranted for while and the
bartender could see I was amused by all of this and he just rolled
his
eyes. As I left the bar I gave the Bartender a ten and asked him
to get Tabitha what she wanted to drink. These people are another
reason I care for the El Cortez and I hope Jackie lives
forever. Russ
···
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hi Russell,
I too have wished Jackie Gaughan good health and longevity. I'm
sure that as long as he continues to reside at the EC, it will not
be sold to that insidious Barrick Group.
I don't know about Philadelphia, but having been born in NYC, I know
about the NY edge. It comes from a combination of knowing that they
live in one of the greatest cities in the world, always being in a
hurry, and having more stress in their lives then do the denizons of
more laid back cities.
I moved to the Heartland (Chicago) as a young girl, and consider
myself a mid-westerner now. This has smoothed out my edges for the
most part. However, I visit my family in the Big Apple often, and
marvel at how well they cope with the vagaries of life there.
I also think that you're quite right that there are many
transplanted New Yorkers, now living in LV, who frequent the EC. I
frequently recognize the very distinctive NY accents of the EC
patrons. It makes me a little homesick, when I hear those dulcet
tones, but I get over it quickly when I remember how friendly,
polite and helpful most MId-Westerners are.
Anyway, I'm happy that I'm not the only fan of the EC. To each his
own favorite casino.
Babe
Could it be that the EC doesn't offer the same product as some other hotels
offer (including those on the Strip) and many tourists prefer something
else? I understand this and make no judgements. I'll also point out, even
for those who place primary importance on the bottom line, playing the best
machine is only part of the equation.
Chandler
···
_____
From: Michael Boutot [mailto:vegas_iw…@…com]
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 4:23 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: El Cortez 3x points (extended comments)
I even stay at the original old rooms above the casino. Why people
would pay to stay ($$$$ or play time on bad machines or tables) on
the strip is the real question.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]