vpFREE2 Forums

Ednar's Royal Drought

I am having a hard time buying into the whole VP
advantage play theory on this board.I.E:

play as fast as possible
play as many hours of the days possible
NEVER play short coin
THEN if you live long enough and you do not go
bankrupt, you will break even.

Methinks you do misrepresent the theory a bit. My version is:

1. Play within the limits of your bankroll (mathematical and
psychological) on machines that you believe to be fair and
random.

2. Be selective in what and where you play. Only play situations
where you have a positive edge, the more the better.

3. Play at an optimum speed, based on your best combination
of accuracy, enjoyment and swiftness.

4. Play as many or as few hours as you like, subject to #2.

I've done the above for 10 plus years with excellent results,
and I know many other LV locals who I have reason to believe
have done similarly.

A theory of my own (which will probably be poo-pooed
here) is that the newer VP machines while not "rigged"
may just be programed better to make the winning hands
harder to get. Technology does advance and IGT may
have advanced the RNG to make VP a more difficult
game. Probably a silly idea :slight_smile:

I believe that the machines that I regularly play here in LV
are fair and random. I wouldn't play them if I felt otherwise.

vpFREE Administrator

···

On 15 Aug 2005 at 7:18, sibercat wrote:

Excellent....

I posted my recent losses to help provide people with an understanding of what can happen. It was not done to imply that the math is wrong, that there is a conspiracy, etc. I see that some people are using my recent losses to justify their own suspicions. That was/is certainly not my intent.

I think your guidelines are "right on". And I am totally amazed that people who are convinced that the machines are "gaffed" do continue to play.

It is true that the positive edges are getting smaller at many locations. And I think Steve (and Art) have some excellent observations. There are still some excellent opportunities out there. It just takes some work. And they seem to keep changing..... But otherwise it would get boring.

SNIP

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "vpFREE" vpFREE@Cox.net

Methinks you do misrepresent the theory a bit. My version is:

1. Play within the limits of your bankroll (mathematical and
psychological) on machines that you believe to be fair and
random.

2. Be selective in what and where you play. Only play situations
where you have a positive edge, the more the better.

3. Play at an optimum speed, based on your best combination
of accuracy, enjoyment and swiftness.

4. Play as many or as few hours as you like, subject to #2.

I've done the above for 10 plus years with excellent results,
and I know many other LV locals who I have reason to believe
have done similarly.

I believe that the machines that I regularly play here in LV
are fair and random. I wouldn't play them if I felt otherwise.

vpFREE Administrator

Very well stated. I agree 100%. Your comments on speed and hours are
extremely important to achieving low error rates.

Dick

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE" <vpFREE@C...> wrote:

On 15 Aug 2005 at 7:18, sibercat wrote:

> I am having a hard time buying into the whole VP
> advantage play theory on this board.I.E:

> play as fast as possible
> play as many hours of the days possible
> NEVER play short coin
> THEN if you live long enough and you do not go
> bankrupt, you will break even.

Methinks you do misrepresent the theory a bit. My version is:

1. Play within the limits of your bankroll (mathematical and
psychological) on machines that you believe to be fair and
random.

2. Be selective in what and where you play. Only play situations
where you have a positive edge, the more the better.

3. Play at an optimum speed, based on your best combination
of accuracy, enjoyment and swiftness.

4. Play as many or as few hours as you like, subject to #2.

I've done the above for 10 plus years with excellent results,
and I know many other LV locals who I have reason to believe
have done similarly.

> A theory of my own (which will probably be poo-pooed
> here) is that the newer VP machines while not "rigged"
> may just be programed better to make the winning hands
> harder to get. Technology does advance and IGT may
> have advanced the RNG to make VP a more difficult
> game. Probably a silly idea :slight_smile:

I believe that the machines that I regularly play here in LV
are fair and random. I wouldn't play them if I felt otherwise.

vpFREE Administrator

I believe personal experiences are a very good way to illuminate the
volatility of VP. I'll provide some of my results for just such a
purpose. My last year has been almost textbook in showing the
different results one can get. Here's a synopsis:

Headed out to LV on 9/25/04 for the winter.

10/7/04 - 12/02/04 (8 weeks) around 250K hands, 11 RFs
12/3/04 - 1/26/05 (7.5 weeks) around 250K hands, 2 RFs
1/27/05 - 3/24/05 (8 weeks) around 250K hands, 15 RFs

Overall this was extremely lucky and made up for several years of
being a couple RFs short of par. The number of hands I played in each
period could be close to what others would play over several years.
If you were a moderate player (100K hands/yr) and found yourself in
the middle group you would probably be suspicous of proponents of
advantage play. If you were in either the first or third group you
might get overconfident and start gambling more and at higher denoms.
A potential disaster without adequate bankroll.

Over the past 4 months I've played around 170K hands (no reasonable
triple play machines) and had RFs on 5/23, 6/25, 7/19 and 8/16. This
period has been probably the most unusual, but it is what a lot of
people EXPECT when they hear statements that RFs are hit on average
every 40K hands. This is the FIRST time I've ever hit RFs in this
consistent manner.

The bottom line is that results will vary over time and you should
EXPECT the unexpected or, essentially, the "roller coaster ride" that
Jean Scott mentioned.

Dick

Excellent....

I posted my recent losses to help provide people with an

understanding of

what can happen. It was not done to imply that the math is wrong,

that there

is a conspiracy, etc. I see that some people are using my recent

losses to

justify their own suspicions. That was/is certainly not my intent.

I think your guidelines are "right on". And I am totally amazed

that people

who are convinced that the machines are "gaffed" do continue to

play.

It is true that the positive edges are getting smaller at many

locations.

And I think Steve (and Art) have some excellent observations. There

are

still some excellent opportunities out there. It just takes some

work. And

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ednar" <ednar@k...> wrote:

they seem to keep changing..... But otherwise it would get boring.

----- Original Message -----
From: "vpFREE" vpFREE@C...

SNIP

>
> Methinks you do misrepresent the theory a bit. My version is:
>
> 1. Play within the limits of your bankroll (mathematical and
> psychological) on machines that you believe to be fair and
> random.
>
> 2. Be selective in what and where you play. Only play situations
> where you have a positive edge, the more the better.
>
> 3. Play at an optimum speed, based on your best combination
> of accuracy, enjoyment and swiftness.
>
> 4. Play as many or as few hours as you like, subject to #2.
>
> I've done the above for 10 plus years with excellent results,
> and I know many other LV locals who I have reason to believe
> have done similarly.

> I believe that the machines that I regularly play here in LV
> are fair and random. I wouldn't play them if I felt otherwise.
>
> vpFREE Administrator
>

Excellent. I shared my results with a friend who is a pro who has been playing over his head (i.e.: insufficient bankroll to handle the plays he has been making.) He FINALLY got the message that if he hits a bad spot he will go totally bankrupt. He has changed his approach now.

FYI. I typically play about $2 million coin in per year but this year will likely be much higher.

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "mroejacks" <rgmustain@att.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 7:12 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Ednar's Royal Drought

I believe personal experiences are a very good way to illuminate the
volatility of VP. I'll provide some of my results for just such a
purpose. My last year has been almost textbook in showing the
different results one can get. Here's a synopsis:

Headed out to LV on 9/25/04 for the winter.

10/7/04 - 12/02/04 (8 weeks) around 250K hands, 11 RFs
12/3/04 - 1/26/05 (7.5 weeks) around 250K hands, 2 RFs
1/27/05 - 3/24/05 (8 weeks) around 250K hands, 15 RFs

Overall this was extremely lucky and made up for several years of
being a couple RFs short of par. The number of hands I played in each
period could be close to what others would play over several years.
If you were a moderate player (100K hands/yr) and found yourself in
the middle group you would probably be suspicous of proponents of
advantage play. If you were in either the first or third group you
might get overconfident and start gambling more and at higher denoms.
A potential disaster without adequate bankroll.

Over the past 4 months I've played around 170K hands (no reasonable
triple play machines) and had RFs on 5/23, 6/25, 7/19 and 8/16. This
period has been probably the most unusual, but it is what a lot of
people EXPECT when they hear statements that RFs are hit on average
every 40K hands. This is the FIRST time I've ever hit RFs in this
consistent manner.

The bottom line is that results will vary over time and you should
EXPECT the unexpected or, essentially, the "roller coaster ride" that
Jean Scott mentioned.

Dick

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ednar" <ednar@k...> wrote:

Excellent....

I posted my recent losses to help provide people with an

understanding of

what can happen. It was not done to imply that the math is wrong,

that there

is a conspiracy, etc. I see that some people are using my recent

losses to

justify their own suspicions. That was/is certainly not my intent.

I think your guidelines are "right on". And I am totally amazed

that people

who are convinced that the machines are "gaffed" do continue to

play.

It is true that the positive edges are getting smaller at many

locations.

And I think Steve (and Art) have some excellent observations. There

are

still some excellent opportunities out there. It just takes some

work. And

they seem to keep changing..... But otherwise it would get boring.

----- Original Message ----- From: "vpFREE" vpFREE@C...

SNIP

>
> Methinks you do misrepresent the theory a bit. My version is:
>
> 1. Play within the limits of your bankroll (mathematical and
> psychological) on machines that you believe to be fair and
> random.
>
> 2. Be selective in what and where you play. Only play situations
> where you have a positive edge, the more the better.
>
> 3. Play at an optimum speed, based on your best combination
> of accuracy, enjoyment and swiftness.
>
> 4. Play as many or as few hours as you like, subject to #2.
>
> I've done the above for 10 plus years with excellent results,
> and I know many other LV locals who I have reason to believe
> have done similarly.

> I believe that the machines that I regularly play here in LV
> are fair and random. I wouldn't play them if I felt otherwise.
>
> vpFREE Administrator
>

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

Over the past 4 months I've played around 170K hands (no reasonable
triple play machines) and had RFs on 5/23, 6/25, 7/19 and 8/16.

Dick, congrats on that royal that you had tomorrow :-).

Nudge

···

From: "mroejacks" <rgmustain@att.net>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Ednar's Royal Drought

Oops, of course, I meant 15 ... but maybe I should head back to the
casino. Could it have been a prophetic typo? I could always use RFs two
days in a row.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nudge51" <nudge51@c...> wrote:

From: "mroejacks" <rgmustain@a...>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Ednar's Royal Drought

> Over the past 4 months I've played around 170K hands (no reasonable
> triple play machines) and had RFs on 5/23, 6/25, 7/19 and 8/16.

Dick, congrats on that royal that you had tomorrow :-).

Nudge