vpFREE2 Forums

Double Pay Poker: Computing the Return

#1

One minor note: I believe this initial table is seen with the 8/5 version
of DDB. The 9/5 version changes the initial deal FH from 200 to 250. The
stated redeal payback of 96.6% seems to confirm this but 8/5 is actually
about 96.79% and 9/5 about 97.87%.

···

[Original Message]
From: Bill Velek <billvelek@alltel.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 3/2/2004 8:24:10 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Double Pay Poker: Computing the Return

brumar_lv wrote:

> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Velek <billvelek@a...> wrote:
> > That seems way too good to be true, but if so, if you will post the
> full pay table I'll give you the total ER.<<
>
> Sorry its taken so long to respond. As someone noted, the "deal"
> and "redeal" jackpots require separate bets. But I'm still curious
> what the "deal" payback is, so I've included the pay schedule below
> for DDBP (this is a 9/5 game with a redeal payback of only 96.6%)
> based on a 5-coin max bet.

Okay, so if I understand you correctly, the following is the pay you
receive if you are "dealt" the following hands:

> RF: 60,000
> SF: 2500
> 4Aces w/2,3,4: 5000
> 4-2,3,4 w/A,2,3,4: 2000
> 4Aces: 2000
> 4-2,3,4: 1000
> 4-5thruK: 500
> FH: 200
> F: 100
> ST: 50
> 3ofaK: 30
> 2Pair: 20
> JorBPair: 10
> Pair of 5-10: 5

snip

I am reposting that info with additional columns which indicate the
expected frequency of those hands and the resulting expected return for
each hand (pay for hand x expected frequency), which are as follows:

HAND PAY Exp.FREQ. ER
RF: 60,000 4 240,000
SF: 2,500 36 90,000
4Aces w/2,3,4: 5,000 12 60,000
4-2,3,4 w/A,2,3,4: 2,000 36 72,000
4Aces: 2,000 36 72,000
4-2,3,4: 1,000 108 108,000
4-5thruK: 500 432 216,000
FH: 200 3,744 748,800
F: 100 5,108 510,800
ST: 50 10,200 510,000
3ofaK: 30 54,912 1,647,360
2Pair: 20 123,552 2,471,040
JorBPair: 10 337,920 3,379,200
Pair of 5-10: 5 506,880 2,534,400
                               TOTAL: 12,659,600

Cost to play games = 52!/47!/5!*5= 12,994,800
TOTAL RETURN % = 12,659,600/12,994,800*100= 97.4%

The above ER is only for the "initial deal" portion of the game. After
that part of the game, I understand that you then play-out your hand
with a paytable that renders an ER of 96.6% as per your statement,
above. You would then average the two = (97.4+96.6)/2= 97.0% TOTAL ER
for GAME.

Now it makes sense. Cheers..

Bill Velek

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#2

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stern" <howard.w.stern@e...>
wrote:

One minor note: I believe this initial table is seen with the 8/5

version

of DDB. The 9/5 version changes the initial deal FH from 200 to

250. The

stated redeal payback of 96.6% seems to confirm this but 8/5 is

actually

about 96.79% and 9/5 about 97.87%.

My mistake ... the correct return is 97.87% for the redeal. I
carelessly computed the return based on 1 coin bet, not 5! Thanks
for noticing the error.

I'm pretty sure I have the FH initial deal payoff correct (200) for
the game I saw at the SunCoast (I checked twice). But I will check
again.

There are four "Double Pay" games offered at the SunCoast ... DDBP,
Double Bonus, Deuces Wild, and Triple Double Bonus (from best to
worst return). However, the return of DDBP is still very poor IMHO.

Is there anyway to compute the variance of this game? It must be
extremely high. If I have any money the "throw away" I think I'll
stick with the Wheel of Fortune or Megabucks, not this game.

#3

Per the below request, I calculated the variance for this game but am posting it under a new thread and subject-line because I thought that some folks who are not following this thread might still like to know how to do this. The new thread/subject line is:
"How to calc variance: JoB-9/6 and Dbl Pay Poker examples"

brumar_lv wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stern" <howard.w.stern@e...>
wrote:
> One minor note: I believe this initial table is seen with the 8/5
version
> of DDB. The 9/5 version changes the initial deal FH from 200 to
250. The
> stated redeal payback of 96.6% seems to confirm this but 8/5 is
actually
> about 96.79% and 9/5 about 97.87%.
>
My mistake ... the correct return is 97.87% for the redeal. I
carelessly computed the return based on 1 coin bet, not 5! Thanks
for noticing the error.

I'm pretty sure I have the FH initial deal payoff correct (200) for
the game I saw at the SunCoast (I checked twice). But I will check
again.

There are four "Double Pay" games offered at the SunCoast ... DDBP,
Double Bonus, Deuces Wild, and Triple Double Bonus (from best to
worst return). However, the return of DDBP is still very poor IMHO.

Is there anyway to compute the variance of this game?

snip

See above note and the new thread re calculating variance

Cheers.

Bill Velek

#4

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stern" <howard.w.stern@e...>
wrote:

One minor note: I believe this initial table is seen with the 8/5

version of DDB. The 9/5 version changes the initial deal FH from 200
to 250. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I verified last night that the 9/5 version has a FH payoff of 200 on
the initial deal ... at the SunCoast, playing quarters.