vpFREE2 Forums

Double Down Feature

#1

Thanks for some responses to the double down question. I
understand better, but I have not really decided which of the two
machines to play. I was specifically thinking of two $1 9/6 machines
that are side-by-side. One has the double down feature. 9/6 JoB is
a negative game so speed should not be a factor-right? The two
machines are at a Harrah's casino and there are no positive play
choices at that casino.
   I calculate that if you put $1 through a machine you will earn .1
base points and about .24 bonus points, or .34 reward credits. These
credits are worth $.0034 in food comps and $.0017 in cash equivalent
gift cards. If you are playing on a multiplier day, usually 3X is
their highest multiplier. On those days you would earn additional
reward credits for a total of .54 reward credits or $.0054 and $.0027
cash equivalent. Usually I do not need to buy food or rooms and if I
need some I will have more than enough reward credits from other
play. So the real value to me, at best, would be $.0027. This keeps
me still negative-right?
   Back to the double feature. Why wouldn't you use it then?
However, if it is reasonable to use once why not double your double.
Is there some logic to not double in this negative situation? And if
you do, when do you stop doubling? I am guessing there is not a good
answer! I have some reliable personal data that shows in 106,800
hands I have made, gotten back my bet, 22,878 times with a high
pair. Two pair has happened 13,878 times and 3 of a kind 8,017
times. Nothing has happened 58,112 times. These number are very
close to what should be expected. The best dollar return is with 2
pair, followed closely by 3 of a kind and then a high pair. If these
were all on $1 machines those 3 hands would have made back $263,950
of the $290,560 lost on "nothing" hands. What if you always double
every high pair, 2 pair or 3 of a Kind?.
   I did mess with it once and I know I made money that time. I was
just demonstrating the feature to a friend. I did manage to double a
$125 the first time I hit 4 of a Kind. The second time I lost.
However I did double a 45 point full house to $360. Again, I only
did it for a short time and was just having fun. I drove my wife
crazy. She did not think it was fun!
  I see the logic to not slow down with a positive play. I guess one
answer is simply never play 9/6 JoB unless comps or cash back can get
you positive-right? That is not often the choice in many
situations. 9/6 JoB has been a good play for me in many situations
because of playing it well and having good luck while playing a lower
variance game. Everything considered, it has been my best play
option to get to the level of comps I now receive. Since I do not
consider gambling a fulltime effort, being bored with the JoB
strategy has never been a reason to not play that game.
   How does one best manage the double down feature if you are not in
a positive game even with comps? It seems the casinos do not favor
the feature since it is available on only a few machines!

Thanks,
Bob

#2

futrend wrote:

   Thanks for some responses to the double down question.
   Back to the double feature. Why wouldn't you use it then?
However, if it is reasonable to use once why not double your double.
Is there some logic to not double in this negative situation? And if
you do, when do you stop doubling? I am guessing there is not a good
answer!

I wouldn't say there's no "good answer" ... just that there's no
answer that's right for everyone.

You've identified a roughly breakeven play, all things considered, and
made clear that your play is strictly recreational (and that you're
not seeking a higher casino rating). In that case, there's absolutely
no reason not to double to your heart's content.

Recognize, however, that doubling increases play volatility. The
probability of greater loss steepens (as does the liklihood, of
course, of greater wins). You simply need to factor that in when
deciding how far to take your doubling.

In very rough terms, doubling on no more than a 10 credit win
maintains variance that's consistent with the underlying variance of
JB. Venture beyond that and you're setting yourself up for a choppier
ride. If doubling floats your boat, go for it ... it's all about the
enjoyment (within your bankroll constraints)

- Harry

#3

Back to the double feature. Why wouldn't you use it then?

In many of the older IGT multigames - the double down feature is/was very close/ touching close to the 'change denominations' screen button. At the Cal a few years ago, I was playing 50C 10/7 Db, down to my last hand and broke, when I got dealt 4 aces - it asked me if I wanted to double $400 --> $800, I pressed NO , and hit the change denom button to switch to dollars.
But --- The pesky machine put an ACE up on the screen and instructed me to "pick a card". I then had the hassle of a lifetime convincing management that "NO ! - I did not choose to double" , BUT it was a screen mal-function!" Only after I had a tech do a "screen calibration test" , before upper management, and it failed did I get my $400 hand pay jackpot.

#4

I asked the original double down question, but did not remember this
story until after reading this particular double down response.
  An older couple was sitting next to me at Harrah's Laughlin. The
discussion was about largest royals ever won, not the "double down"
feature. I do not think this feature was on the machines we were
playing. She mention that her biggest royal ever was for $16,000.
However, the interesting part was that she said she was playing $2 VP
and only won an $8,000 royal. She thought she could cash our her
winnings and in some way hit the double down feature BY ACCIDENT!
  They were very upset and got management over to correct the big
problem. Management answer was that she started the double down
feature and there was absolutely nothing they could do for her after
such an action. The couple repeated to me how much they continued to
protest, but that it was useless. Finally, one of the techicians in
the group pointed out the all she had to do was beat the "2" on the
machine. He stated that she could not lose her $8,000! I am not in
front of a double down machine and I now wondering if you can get out
of a bet after matching the first chance!
  Well anyway, this is exactly how the story was told to me and
supported by her husband. She had a lot of luck and managed to draw a
card greater than a deuce. That is her claim as to how she won her
largest royal ($16,000)!

Bob

>>> Back to the double feature. Why wouldn't you use it then?

In many of the older IGT multigames - the double down feature is/was
very close/ touching close to the 'change denominations' screen
button. At the Cal a few years ago, I was playing 50C 10/7 Db, down to
my last hand and broke, when I got dealt 4 aces - it asked me if I
wanted to double $400 $800, I pressed NO , and hit the change denom
button to switch to dollars. But --- The pesky machine put an ACE up
on the screen and instructed me to "pick a card". I then had the
hassle of a lifetime convincing management that "NO ! - I did not
choose to double" , BUT it was a screen mal-function!" Only after I
had a tech do a "screen calibration test" , before upper management,
and it failed did I get my $400 hand pay jackpot.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@...> wrote:

#5

futrend,

i had a similar event happen to me at the borgata. i
was playing deuces wild on a $2 machine and i hit 4
deuces. i called my wife and i stood up to wait for
the hand pay and all of a sudden the deuces
disappeared and the 6 of hearts appeared. i called
for a tech and at the same time he arrived so did the
slot official...i told them i did not touch the
machine and i wanted my money. of course they informed
me that i must have hit the double down button as i
was standing up and that there was nothing they could
do. a supervisor was summoned and he to told me the
same information. well, i hit the button and happily a
ten of spades appeared. what a relief!!!!by the way
all of the cards appearing would have beaten the 6!!!
but was i scared. be careful playing the games if
double down is there. just the slightest touch could
set it into motion. marty--historyman

···

--- futrend <futrend@yahoo.com> wrote:

  I asked the original double down question, but did
not remember this
story until after reading this particular double
down response.
  An older couple was sitting next to me at Harrah's
Laughlin. The
discussion was about largest royals ever won, not
the "double down"
feature. I do not think this feature was on the
machines we were
playing. She mention that her biggest royal ever
was for $16,000.
However, the interesting part was that she said she
was playing $2 VP
and only won an $8,000 royal. She thought she could
cash our her
winnings and in some way hit the double down feature
BY ACCIDENT!
  They were very upset and got management over to
correct the big
problem. Management answer was that she started the
double down
feature and there was absolutely nothing they could
do for her after
such an action. The couple repeated to me how much
they continued to
protest, but that it was useless. Finally, one of
the techicians in
the group pointed out the all she had to do was beat
the "2" on the
machine. He stated that she could not lose her
$8,000! I am not in
front of a double down machine and I now wondering
if you can get out
of a bet after matching the first chance!
  Well anyway, this is exactly how the story was
told to me and
supported by her husband. She had a lot of luck and
managed to draw a
card greater than a deuce. That is her claim as to
how she won her
largest royal ($16,000)!

Bob

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush"
<tomflush@...> wrote:
>
> >>> Back to the double feature. Why wouldn't you
use it then?
In many of the older IGT multigames - the double
down feature is/was
very close/ touching close to the 'change
denominations' screen
button. At the Cal a few years ago, I was playing
50C 10/7 Db, down to
my last hand and broke, when I got dealt 4 aces -
it asked me if I
wanted to double $400 $800, I pressed NO , and hit
the change denom
button to switch to dollars. But --- The pesky
machine put an ACE up
on the screen and instructed me to "pick a card". I
then had the
hassle of a lifetime convincing management that "NO
! - I did not
choose to double" , BUT it was a screen
mal-function!" Only after I
had a tech do a "screen calibration test" , before
upper management,
and it failed did I get my $400 hand pay jackpot.
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited
(http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited)

#6

If, "....all she had to do was beat the '2' on the machine" then
the casino management would CERTAINLY have given her the
$8,000 and not played out the double-up.

It is hard to believe that any casino would force a customer to
take the extra $8,000, if the original win would surely be doubled
(as in this case).

The one and only time I accidentally pressed "Double-Up" was at
Caesars Palace. I called someone over and told them I did not
want to play it off. They said it was not a problem. They played it
for me, it doubled, and they let me keep the winnings. They said
that they would have refunded the money to me, if I had lost the
double-down.

···

On 11/5/06, futrend <futrend@yahoo.com> wrote:

I asked the original double down question, but did not remember this
story until after reading this particular double down response.
An older couple was sitting next to me at Harrah's Laughlin. The
discussion was about largest royals ever won, not the "double down"
feature. I do not think this feature was on the machines we were
playing. She mention that her biggest royal ever was for $16,000.
However, the interesting part was that she said she was playing $2 VP
and only won an $8,000 royal. She thought she could cash our her
winnings and in some way hit the double down feature BY ACCIDENT!
They were very upset and got management over to correct the big
problem. Management answer was that she started the double down
feature and there was absolutely nothing they could do for her after
such an action. The couple repeated to me how much they continued to
protest, but that it was useless. Finally, one of the techicians in
the group pointed out the all she had to do was beat the "2" on the
machine. He stated that she could not lose her $8,000! I am not in
front of a double down machine and I now wondering if you can get out
of a bet after matching the first chance!
Well anyway, this is exactly how the story was told to me and
supported by her husband. She had a lot of luck and managed to draw a
card greater than a deuce. That is her claim as to how she won her
largest royal ($16,000)!

Bob

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]