Babe...
I agree with all of your points about pros, and particularly teams.
But I think you (and most people out there) underestimate the impact
of their own advantaged play. Can I, visiting 10-14 days per year to
Vegas, have any where near the impact a local pro (or team) can?
Certainly not. That's the way most people look at it.
The problem is there's thousands of us (advantage players). I'm not
talking just the subscribers to this list. There are other internet
lists, readers of Dancer/LVA/etc., and so on. I don't think I'm
exaggerating when I say the number of people in this country who know
at least passable VP strategy now numbers well into the thousands
(maybe tens of thousands).
We can put VP players into one of 3 categories: pros that play a ton
and make good money off the casinos, advantage players that know at
least some strategy and know to play high EV games, and clueless
players that play 2-3% (or more) below EV. Casinos clearly don't
profit from the first group, and after you add in
cashback/food/drinks/rooms/etc. they make litle or no money from the
second group. Virtually all their profit comes from the third group.
In that respect, we (the second group) are no more desirable to the
casinos than the pros.
What are the reasons that a casino might remove a high EV VP machine?
"Image" may very well be part of it... pros or teams hogging the
seats while desirable customers (those profitable to the casino)
cannot get to them. Overheard cell phone conversations, tag teaming,
etc. Management may get complaints, or perhaps they simply notice the
situation and decide to do something about it.
But I doubt a very large number of machines are removed due to bad
image. Most are removed because the hold percentages are too low, or
not enough volume. On the high percentage VP machines we don't need
to worry about not enough volume. They'll get plenty of play from
advantage players. So it comes down mostly to hold percentage.
That's where the thousands of advantage players make the biggest
impact. Not individually, but collectively. Too many advantaged
players armed with good information = shrinking machine holds.
What can we do now to slow the propagation? Obviously none of us is
going to start playing bad strategy just to raise machine holds. And
none of us want to give up any of our time on our favorite machines.
What then?
There are 2 ingredients needed to play advantage VP. One is general
knowledge about VP (knowing it can be beat, and knowing how to do it
via proper strategy). The other is knowledge of specific plays (where
the good machines/paytables exist, the good promotions, benefits,
etc.).
All of us here already know the general info, and that won't get
reversed. But we can think twice about promoting it to any NEW
players, which would simply continue the propagation. We do have a
little more control over the second part, chosing whether or not to
broadcast info that would help others to compete against us (maybe not
competing individually, but collectively).
VP Animal
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@y...>
wrote:
->>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi VP Animal,
I agree that there is validity to the points you both make.
However, of what possible use is FP VP, if we cannot, w/o threat of
having the play downgraded, apply proper strategy?
Where I'm afraid I have a difference of opinion with you, is in the
effect that the casual, recreational player has on the casino's
bottom line and actions, vs. their response to the pros and the tag-
team players. (By teams, I'm NOT referring to a few friends, out
for an evening of vp, who happen to be sitting at adjacent machines
for a few hours of fun and entertainment).
If tag teams tie up machines for endless hours, in the egregious
way
that ROJ described in his Lake Tahoe post, this is bound to have a
deleterious effect on the casinos EV, on those particular machines,
probably causing a quick downgrade of the play.
On the other hand, recreational players (who most probably are
playing at considerably less than `100% accuracy, will take a
break,
have a meal, stroll around the block to refresh themselves, and
generally not evoke anywhere near the response, from the suits,
that
the team/pro will cause. IMO, even those skilled team players who
sacrifice perfect play for extreme speed, are still a much a
greater
threat to the casino's bottom line, than the recreational player.
Fortunately, for me, teams and pro players can not able to squeeze
enough profit out of single line .25 vp. Therefore, I am still
able
···
to plug away, many hours each day, at my game of choice.
For those of you that play higher denom. and multi-hands, you have
my sincere sympathy. I just have no clue as to what you can
possibly do to prevent the disappearance of FP machines.
Babe