vpFREE2 Forums

Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

You want to see cheating? Visit the monticello NY website:
www.monticellogamingandraceway.com/
They have a picture of a VLT VP machine. Now that's cheating.

I've been in a lot of indian casino's. I saw an obvious cheat at a San Diego Quonsett Hut casino. Also, many years ago the Cherokee in North Carolina but in general, have done well at the native joints.
Dave in Boston

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mikeymic" <mikeymic@...> wrote:

I have had MANY private email discussions about VP play at various Indian casinos. I would now like to open up the discussion to the entire group.

In general, there is a suspicion that machines are not as regulated on private Indian land as in, for example, major Las Vegas casinos.

My opinion is that there are undoubtedly unfair VP games being played every day. In this economy the temptation to squeeze out every dime of profit is too great to resist.

In terms of my particular post today, I can inform you that there are indeed some Indian casinos where I will not play. I base my choices not only by personal experience but also by the many vpFREE members who email me. Regardless of whether I and others are actually being "cheated", if you feel unlucky or negative in a casino, then perhaps you should be playing elsewhere anyway.

But I would like to get a sense, in general, of how the group feels about this issue. Any of your comments and reasoning would be appreciated.

Mikey

Could you clarify what you are trying to point out in this message?

Monticello Raceway has nothing to do with Indian gaming.

And what do you mean by cheating?

(I do not see the picture that you are referring to.)

···

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: haaljo@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 03:43:50 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

You want to see cheating? Visit the monticello NY website:
www.monticellogamingandraceway.com/
They have a picture of a VLT VP machine. Now that's cheating.

I've been in a lot of indian casino's. I saw an obvious cheat at a San Diego Quonsett Hut casino. Also, many years ago the Cherokee in North Carolina but in general, have done well at the native joints.
Dave in Boston

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mikeymic" <mikeymic@...> wrote:
>
> I have had MANY private email discussions about VP play at various Indian casinos. I would now like to open up the discussion to the entire group.
>
> In general, there is a suspicion that machines are not as regulated on private Indian land as in, for example, major Las Vegas casinos.
>
> My opinion is that there are undoubtedly unfair VP games being played every day. In this economy the temptation to squeeze out every dime of profit is too great to resist.
>
> In terms of my particular post today, I can inform you that there are indeed some Indian casinos where I will not play. I base my choices not only by personal experience but also by the many vpFREE members who email me. Regardless of whether I and others are actually being "cheated", if you feel unlucky or negative in a casino, then perhaps you should be playing elsewhere anyway.
>
> But I would like to get a sense, in general, of how the group feels about this issue. Any of your comments and reasoning would be appreciated.
>
> Mikey
>

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

NY State racinos work like Washington state Indian casinos. They evaluate a
lottery scratch ticket and then display the results on a machine that either
looks like a slot or a VP machine. Just because your draw makes no
difference to the result does not mean it's cheating! They do not hide the
way the machine works. If you are not entertained by the machine, don't play
it. But it's not cheating.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
kelso 1600
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 5:03 AM
To: vpfree@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

Could you clarify what you are trying to point out in this message?

Monticello Raceway has nothing to do with Indian gaming.

And what do you mean by cheating?

(I do not see the picture that you are referring to.)

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: haaljo@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 03:43:50 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

You want to see cheating? Visit the monticello NY website:
www.monticellogamingandraceway.com/
They have a picture of a VLT VP machine. Now that's cheating.

I've been in a lot of indian casino's. I saw an obvious cheat at a San

Diego Quonsett Hut casino. Also, many years ago the Cherokee in North
Carolina but in general, have done well at the native joints.

Dave in Boston

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mikeymic" <mikeymic@...> wrote:
>
> I have had MANY private email discussions about VP play at various

Indian casinos. I would now like to open up the discussion to the entire
group.

>
> In general, there is a suspicion that machines are not as regulated on

private Indian land as in, for example, major Las Vegas casinos.

>
> My opinion is that there are undoubtedly unfair VP games being played

every day. In this economy the temptation to squeeze out every dime of
profit is too great to resist.

>
> In terms of my particular post today, I can inform you that there are

indeed some Indian casinos where I will not play. I base my choices not only
by personal experience but also by the many vpFREE members who email me.
Regardless of whether I and others are actually being "cheated", if you feel
unlucky or negative in a casino, then perhaps you should be playing
elsewhere anyway.

>
> But I would like to get a sense, in general, of how the group feels

about this issue. Any of your comments and reasoning would be appreciated.

>
> Mikey
>

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with
Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28
326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

It may not be 'cheating' but it is deceptive. Most people believe and expect that selecting their cards and playing perfect strategy makes a difference when in fact it makes no difference at all. If it were not for this site, I would be one of those people.

···

________________________________
From: Bill Coleman <vphobby2@cox.net>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, June 22, 2010 12:59:02 PM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

NY State racinos work like Washington state Indian casinos. They evaluate a
lottery scratch ticket and then display the results on a machine that either
looks like a slot or a VP machine. Just because your draw makes no
difference to the result does not mean it's cheating! They do not hide the
way the machine works. If you are not entertained by the machine, don't play
it. But it's not cheating.

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
kelso 1600
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 5:03 AM
To: vpfree@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

Could you clarify what you are trying to point out in this message?

Monticello Raceway has nothing to do with Indian gaming.

And what do you mean by cheating?

(I do not see the picture that you are referring to.)

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: haaljo@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 03:43:50 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

You want to see cheating? Visit the monticello NY website:
www.monticellogamingandraceway.com/
They have a picture of a VLT VP machine. Now that's cheating.

I've been in a lot of indian casino's. I saw an obvious cheat at a San

Diego Quonsett Hut casino. Also, many years ago the Cherokee in North
Carolina but in general, have done well at the native joints.

Dave in Boston

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mikeymic" <mikeymic@...> wrote:
>
> I have had MANY private email discussions about VP play at various

Indian casinos. I would now like to open up the discussion to the entire
group.

>
> In general, there is a suspicion that machines are not as regulated on

private Indian land as in, for example, major Las Vegas casinos.

>
> My opinion is that there are undoubtedly unfair VP games being played

every day. In this economy the temptation to squeeze out every dime of
profit is too great to resist.

>
> In terms of my particular post today, I can inform you that there are

indeed some Indian casinos where I will not play. I base my choices not only
by personal experience but also by the many vpFREE members who email me.
Regardless of whether I and others are actually being "cheated", if you feel
unlucky or negative in a casino, then perhaps you should be playing
elsewhere anyway.

>
> But I would like to get a sense, in general, of how the group feels

about this issue. Any of your comments and reasoning would be appreciated.

>
> Mikey
>

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

__________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with
Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28
326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joel,

Most people go to casinos without doing any research into how the games work. Every time I go to a new jurisdiction, I look at the "help" feature on machines. You certainly know that if you see a genie or match point on a video poker machine that it does not work like Nevada machines. Also, if you see a reference to Bingo or pull tabs.

It is only deceptive if you allow yourself to be deceived. No one is hiding how the machines work in different jurisdictions.

Bill

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of Joel Fink
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 11:00 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

It may not be 'cheating' but it is deceptive. Most people believe and expect that selecting their cards and playing perfect strategy makes a difference when in fact it makes no difference at all. If it were not for this site, I would be one of those people.

________________________________
From: Bill Coleman <vphobby2@cox.net>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, June 22, 2010 12:59:02 PM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?


NY State racinos work like Washington state Indian casinos. They evaluate a
lottery scratch ticket and then display the results on a machine that either
looks like a slot or a VP machine. Just because your draw makes no
difference to the result does not mean it's cheating! They do not hide the
way the machine works. If you are not entertained by the machine, don't play
it. But it's not cheating.

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
kelso 1600
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 5:03 AM
To: vpfree@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

Could you clarify what you are trying to point out in this message?

Monticello Raceway has nothing to do with Indian gaming.

And what do you mean by cheating?

(I do not see the picture that you are referring to.)

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: haaljo@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 03:43:50 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

You want to see cheating? Visit the monticello NY website:
www.monticellogamingandraceway.com/
They have a picture of a VLT VP machine. Now that's cheating.

I've been in a lot of indian casino's. I saw an obvious cheat at a San

Diego Quonsett Hut casino. Also, many years ago the Cherokee in North
Carolina but in general, have done well at the native joints.

Dave in Boston

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mikeymic" <mikeymic@...> wrote:
>
> I have had MANY private email discussions about VP play at various

Indian casinos. I would now like to open up the discussion to the entire
group.

>
> In general, there is a suspicion that machines are not as regulated on

private Indian land as in, for example, major Las Vegas casinos.

>
> My opinion is that there are undoubtedly unfair VP games being played

every day. In this economy the temptation to squeeze out every dime of
profit is too great to resist.

>
> In terms of my particular post today, I can inform you that there are

indeed some Indian casinos where I will not play. I base my choices not only
by personal experience but also by the many vpFREE members who email me.
Regardless of whether I and others are actually being "cheated", if you feel
unlucky or negative in a casino, then perhaps you should be playing
elsewhere anyway.

>
> But I would like to get a sense, in general, of how the group feels

about this issue. Any of your comments and reasoning would be appreciated.

>
> Mikey
>

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

__________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with
Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28
326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

Oklahoma has more casinos than any other state, outside Nevada.

I think Bill's point is excellent, and two of his key words are NEW JURISDICTION.

An Indian Casino is owned by a nation. A sovereign nation, that generally picks and chooses what laws it will participate in, accept, reject, and/or recognize their compliance.

This translates to they will collect sales tax, what the heck it's your money.

BUT they won't charge as much tax for license plates, gasoline, and cigarettes, because that will hurt their volume.

They will give you a W-2G, what the heck it's your income tax money. But they are tax exempt, except by their choice.

They won't recognize concealed carry. They can't be forced to follow health code, minimum wage, right-to-work, liquor tax, traffic laws..........

I'm not wanting to open this thread to taxes, tipping, minimum wage, unions, or concealed carry.

Make sure you realize you're just as a guest in their nation, and you check our Constitution, Bill of Rights, State and local statutes at the boundary when you enter their reservation.

They have their own laws, their own law enforcement, their own courts.

Regards.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Coleman" <vphobby2@...> wrote:

Every time I go to a new jurisdiction, No one is hiding how the machines work in different jurisdictions.

"If white man speaks with forked tongue, then Red man speaks with forked casino."
--VP Pappy

"Every time I gamble in an Indian-owned casino and get scalped, I think I know how General Custer must have felt at Little Big Horn."
--VP Pappy

···

-----------------------------------------------------

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <MichaelStapp@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Coleman" <vphobby2@> wrote:

> Every time I go to a new jurisdiction, No one is hiding how the machines work in different jurisdictions.

Oklahoma has more casinos than any other state, outside Nevada.

I think Bill's point is excellent, and two of his key words are NEW JURISDICTION.

An Indian Casino is owned by a nation. A sovereign nation, that generally picks and chooses what laws it will participate in, accept, reject, and/or recognize their compliance.

This translates to they will collect sales tax, what the heck it's your money.

BUT they won't charge as much tax for license plates, gasoline, and cigarettes, because that will hurt their volume.

They will give you a W-2G, what the heck it's your income tax money. But they are tax exempt, except by their choice.

They won't recognize concealed carry. They can't be forced to follow health code, minimum wage, right-to-work, liquor tax, traffic laws..........

I'm not wanting to open this thread to taxes, tipping, minimum wage, unions, or concealed carry.

Make sure you realize you're just as a guest in their nation, and you check our Constitution, Bill of Rights, State and local statutes at the boundary when you enter their reservation.

They have their own laws, their own law enforcement, their own courts.

Regards.

I only have one question ralated to these machines. What is the return. They show a payoff list like you will be full pay, but what is built into the stack, what return?
Want to have fun, throw out any hand you are dealt and you will never end up with a worse hand. All predetermined. Get two pair, draw all five cards over and you will get at least two pair. Have not, will not play unless I knew the answer to the frist question.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Bill Coleman
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 12:59 PM
  Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

  NY State racinos work like Washington state Indian casinos. They evaluate a
  lottery scratch ticket and then display the results on a machine that either
  looks like a slot or a VP machine. Just because your draw makes no
  difference to the result does not mean it's cheating! They do not hide the
  way the machine works. If you are not entertained by the machine, don't play
  it. But it's not cheating.

  -----Original Message-----
  From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
  kelso 1600
  Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 5:03 AM
  To: vpfree@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

  Could you clarify what you are trying to point out in this message?

  Monticello Raceway has nothing to do with Indian gaming.

  And what do you mean by cheating?

  (I do not see the picture that you are referring to.)

  > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  > From: haaljo@yahoo.com
  > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 03:43:50 +0000
  > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?
  >
  > You want to see cheating? Visit the monticello NY website:
  > www.monticellogamingandraceway.com/
  > They have a picture of a VLT VP machine. Now that's cheating.
  >
  > I've been in a lot of indian casino's. I saw an obvious cheat at a San
  Diego Quonsett Hut casino. Also, many years ago the Cherokee in North
  Carolina but in general, have done well at the native joints.
  > Dave in Boston
  >
  > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mikeymic" <mikeymic@...> wrote:
  > >
  > > I have had MANY private email discussions about VP play at various
  Indian casinos. I would now like to open up the discussion to the entire
  group.
  > >
  > > In general, there is a suspicion that machines are not as regulated on
  private Indian land as in, for example, major Las Vegas casinos.
  > >
  > > My opinion is that there are undoubtedly unfair VP games being played
  every day. In this economy the temptation to squeeze out every dime of
  profit is too great to resist.
  > >
  > > In terms of my particular post today, I can inform you that there are
  indeed some Indian casinos where I will not play. I base my choices not only
  by personal experience but also by the many vpFREE members who email me.
  Regardless of whether I and others are actually being "cheated", if you feel
  unlucky or negative in a casino, then perhaps you should be playing
  elsewhere anyway.
  > >
  > > But I would like to get a sense, in general, of how the group feels
  about this issue. Any of your comments and reasoning would be appreciated.
  > >
  > > Mikey
  > >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > ------------------------------------
  >
  > vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
  >
  > Yahoo! Groups Links
  >
  >
  >

  __________________________________________________________
  The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with
  Hotmail.
  http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28
  326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  ------------------------------------

  vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

  Yahoo! Groups Links

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2960 - Release Date: 06/24/10 06:35:00

  ----------

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2960 - Release Date: 06/24/10 06:35:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Link below to WA State Gambling Commission. General explanation of how
Slot (*Themed*) and VP (*Themed*) VLT's (*Video Lottery Terminals*) work in
WA State native american casinos using TLS (*Tribal Lottery System*).

http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/faq/tls_faq.asp

<http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/faq/tls_faq.asp>

···

On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 7:59 PM, Video Poker <videopoker@twcny.rr.com>wrote:

I only have one question ralated to these machines. What is the return.
They show a payoff list like you will be full pay, but what is built into
the stack, what return?
Want to have fun, throw out any hand you are dealt and you will never end
up with a worse hand. All predetermined. Get two pair, draw all five cards
over and you will get at least two pair. Have not, will not play unless I
knew the answer to the frist question.

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Coleman
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 12:59 PM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

NY State racinos work like Washington state Indian casinos. They evaluate a
lottery scratch ticket and then display the results on a machine that
either
looks like a slot or a VP machine. Just because your draw makes no
difference to the result does not mean it's cheating! They do not hide the
way the machine works. If you are not entertained by the machine, don't
play
it. But it's not cheating.

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of
kelso 1600
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 5:03 AM
To: vpfree@yahoogroups.com <vpfree%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

Could you clarify what you are trying to point out in this message?

Monticello Raceway has nothing to do with Indian gaming.

And what do you mean by cheating?

(I do not see the picture that you are referring to.)

> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
> From: haaljo@yahoo.com <haaljo%40yahoo.com>
> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 03:43:50 +0000
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?
>
> You want to see cheating? Visit the monticello NY website:
> www.monticellogamingandraceway.com/
> They have a picture of a VLT VP machine. Now that's cheating.
>
> I've been in a lot of indian casino's. I saw an obvious cheat at a San
Diego Quonsett Hut casino. Also, many years ago the Cherokee in North
Carolina but in general, have done well at the native joints.
> Dave in Boston

>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>, "mikeymic"
<mikeymic@...> wrote:
> >
> > I have had MANY private email discussions about VP play at various
Indian casinos. I would now like to open up the discussion to the entire
group.
> >
> > In general, there is a suspicion that machines are not as regulated on
private Indian land as in, for example, major Las Vegas casinos.
> >
> > My opinion is that there are undoubtedly unfair VP games being played
every day. In this economy the temptation to squeeze out every dime of
profit is too great to resist.
> >
> > In terms of my particular post today, I can inform you that there are
indeed some Indian casinos where I will not play. I base my choices not
only
by personal experience but also by the many vpFREE members who email me.
Regardless of whether I and others are actually being "cheated", if you
feel
unlucky or negative in a casino, then perhaps you should be playing
elsewhere anyway.
> >
> > But I would like to get a sense, in general, of how the group feels
about this issue. Any of your comments and reasoning would be appreciated.
> >
> > Mikey
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

__________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with
Hotmail.

http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28
326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2960 - Release Date: 06/24/10
06:35:00

----------

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2960 - Release Date: 06/24/10
06:35:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here is a link on the history of machine gaming in the state of WA:
http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/docs/tribal/machine_gaming.asp

<http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/docs/tribal/machine_gaming.asp>

···

On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 8:41 PM, Five Play <adkdqdjd10d@gmail.com> wrote:

  Link below to WA State Gambling Commission. General explanation of how
Slot (*Themed*) and VP (*Themed*) VLT's (*Video Lottery Terminals*) work
in WA State native american casinos using TLS (*Tribal Lottery System*
).

http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/faq/tls_faq.asp

<http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/faq/tls_faq.asp>

On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 7:59 PM, Video Poker <videopoker@twcny.rr.com>wrote:

I only have one question ralated to these machines. What is the return.
They show a payoff list like you will be full pay, but what is built into
the stack, what return?
Want to have fun, throw out any hand you are dealt and you will never end
up with a worse hand. All predetermined. Get two pair, draw all five cards
over and you will get at least two pair. Have not, will not play unless I
knew the answer to the frist question.

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Coleman
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 12:59 PM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

NY State racinos work like Washington state Indian casinos. They evaluate
a
lottery scratch ticket and then display the results on a machine that
either
looks like a slot or a VP machine. Just because your draw makes no
difference to the result does not mean it's cheating! They do not hide the
way the machine works. If you are not entertained by the machine, don't
play
it. But it's not cheating.

  .

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

They have a 17% take or 83% Return

In a message dated 06/26/10 23:00:11 Eastern Daylight Time, videopoker@twcny.rr.com writes:
I only have one question ralated to these machines. What is the return. They show a payoff list like you will be full pay, but what is built into the stack, what return?
Want to have fun, throw out any hand you are dealt and you will never end up with a worse hand. All predetermined. Get two pair, draw all five cards over and you will get at least two pair. Have not, will not play unless I knew the answer to the frist question.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Coleman
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 12:59 PM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

NY State racinos work like Washington state Indian casinos. They evaluate a
lottery scratch ticket and then display the results on a machine that either
looks like a slot or a VP machine. Just because your draw makes no
difference to the result does not mean it's cheating! They do not hide the
way the machine works. If you are not entertained by the machine, don't play
it. But it's not cheating.

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
kelso 1600
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 5:03 AM
To: vpfree@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

Could you clarify what you are trying to point out in this message?

Monticello Raceway has nothing to do with Indian gaming.

And what do you mean by cheating?

(I do not see the picture that you are referring to.)

> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> From: haaljo@yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 03:43:50 +0000
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?
>
> You want to see cheating? Visit the monticello NY website:
> www.monticellogamingandraceway.com/
> They have a picture of a VLT VP machine. Now that's cheating.
>
> I've been in a lot of indian casino's. I saw an obvious cheat at a San
Diego Quonsett Hut casino. Also, many years ago the Cherokee in North
Carolina but in general, have done well at the native joints.
> Dave in Boston
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mikeymic" <mikeymic@...> wrote:
> >
> > I have had MANY private email discussions about VP play at various
Indian casinos. I would now like to open up the discussion to the entire
group.
> >
> > In general, there is a suspicion that machines are not as regulated on
private Indian land as in, for example, major Las Vegas casinos.
> >
> > My opinion is that there are undoubtedly unfair VP games being played
every day. In this economy the temptation to squeeze out every dime of
profit is too great to resist.
> >
> > In terms of my particular post today, I can inform you that there are
indeed some Indian casinos where I will not play. I base my choices not only
by personal experience but also by the many vpFREE members who email me.
Regardless of whether I and others are actually being "cheated", if you feel
unlucky or negative in a casino, then perhaps you should be playing
elsewhere anyway.
> >
> > But I would like to get a sense, in general, of how the group feels
about this issue. Any of your comments and reasoning would be appreciated.
> >
> > Mikey
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

__________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with
Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28
326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2960 - Release Date: 06/24/10 06:35:00

----------

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2960 - Release Date: 06/24/10 06:35:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In total or vp? If 83%, the pay scale shown is a misrepresentation. Who would play 83% vp?

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: richct1472
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 8:12 AM
  Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

  They have a 17% take or 83% Return

  In a message dated 06/26/10 23:00:11 Eastern Daylight Time, videopoker@twcny.rr.com writes:
  I only have one question ralated to these machines. What is the return. They show a payoff list like you will be full pay, but what is built into the stack, what return?
  Want to have fun, throw out any hand you are dealt and you will never end up with a worse hand. All predetermined. Get two pair, draw all five cards over and you will get at least two pair. Have not, will not play unless I knew the answer to the frist question.

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Bill Coleman
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 12:59 PM
  Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

  NY State racinos work like Washington state Indian casinos. They evaluate a
  lottery scratch ticket and then display the results on a machine that either
  looks like a slot or a VP machine. Just because your draw makes no
  difference to the result does not mean it's cheating! They do not hide the
  way the machine works. If you are not entertained by the machine, don't play
  it. But it's not cheating.

  -----Original Message-----
  From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
  kelso 1600
  Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 5:03 AM
  To: vpfree@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

  Could you clarify what you are trying to point out in this message?

  Monticello Raceway has nothing to do with Indian gaming.

  And what do you mean by cheating?

  (I do not see the picture that you are referring to.)

  > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  > From: haaljo@yahoo.com
  > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 03:43:50 +0000
  > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?
  >
  > You want to see cheating? Visit the monticello NY website:
  > www.monticellogamingandraceway.com/
  > They have a picture of a VLT VP machine. Now that's cheating.
  >
  > I've been in a lot of indian casino's. I saw an obvious cheat at a San
  Diego Quonsett Hut casino. Also, many years ago the Cherokee in North
  Carolina but in general, have done well at the native joints.
  > Dave in Boston
  >
  > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mikeymic" <mikeymic@...> wrote:
  > >
  > > I have had MANY private email discussions about VP play at various
  Indian casinos. I would now like to open up the discussion to the entire
  group.
  > >
  > > In general, there is a suspicion that machines are not as regulated on
  private Indian land as in, for example, major Las Vegas casinos.
  > >
  > > My opinion is that there are undoubtedly unfair VP games being played
  every day. In this economy the temptation to squeeze out every dime of
  profit is too great to resist.
  > >
  > > In terms of my particular post today, I can inform you that there are
  indeed some Indian casinos where I will not play. I base my choices not only
  by personal experience but also by the many vpFREE members who email me.
  Regardless of whether I and others are actually being "cheated", if you feel
  unlucky or negative in a casino, then perhaps you should be playing
  elsewhere anyway.
  > >
  > > But I would like to get a sense, in general, of how the group feels
  about this issue. Any of your comments and reasoning would be appreciated.
  > >
  > > Mikey
  > >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > ------------------------------------
  >
  > vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
  >
  > Yahoo! Groups Links
  >
  >
  >

  __________________________________________________________
  The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with
  Hotmail.
  http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28
  326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  ------------------------------------

  vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

  Yahoo! Groups Links

  ----------------------------------------------------------

  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2960 - Release Date: 06/24/10 06:35:00

  ----------

  No virus found in this outgoing message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2960 - Release Date: 06/24/10 06:35:00

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  ------------------------------------

  vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

  Yahoo! Groups Links

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2966 - Release Date: 06/27/10 06:35:00

  ----------

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2966 - Release Date: 06/27/10 06:35:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The New York Racinos do not have video poker. They have video lottery terminals that look like video poker machines . If you throw away a hand a genie comes and corrects your play to the predetermined out come, They are the equivalent of scratch off tickets, There is no skill involved, They look like they have attractive pay tables but the return on all machines is 83% which is unethical in my opinion as the return is not disclosed on the machine. It was published in an article I read about the proposed Racino at Aqueduct As to who would play them the one in Yonkers showed a profit of something like 400 Million last year, The place was full the night I went there for a food expo
Rich P

In a message dated 06/27/10 10:06:36 Eastern Daylight Time, videopoker@twcny.rr.com writes:
In total or vp? If 83%, the pay scale shown is a misrepresentation. Who would play 83% vp?

···

----- Original Message -----
From: richct1472
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

They have a 17% take or 83% Return

In a message dated 06/26/10 23:00:11 Eastern Daylight Time, videopoker@twcny.rr.com writes:
I only have one question ralated to these machines. What is the return. They show a payoff list like you will be full pay, but what is built into the stack, what return?
Want to have fun, throw out any hand you are dealt and you will never end up with a worse hand. All predetermined. Get two pair, draw all five cards over and you will get at least two pair. Have not, will not play unless I knew the answer to the frist question.

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Coleman
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 12:59 PM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

NY State racinos work like Washington state Indian casinos. They evaluate a
lottery scratch ticket and then display the results on a machine that either
looks like a slot or a VP machine. Just because your draw makes no
difference to the result does not mean it's cheating! They do not hide the
way the machine works. If you are not entertained by the machine, don't play
it. But it's not cheating.

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
kelso 1600
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 5:03 AM
To: vpfree@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

Could you clarify what you are trying to point out in this message?

Monticello Raceway has nothing to do with Indian gaming.

And what do you mean by cheating?

(I do not see the picture that you are referring to.)

> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> From: haaljo@yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 03:43:50 +0000
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?
>
> You want to see cheating? Visit the monticello NY website:
> www.monticellogamingandraceway.com/
> They have a picture of a VLT VP machine. Now that's cheating.
>
> I've been in a lot of indian casino's. I saw an obvious cheat at a San
Diego Quonsett Hut casino. Also, many years ago the Cherokee in North
Carolina but in general, have done well at the native joints.
> Dave in Boston
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mikeymic" <mikeymic@...> wrote:
> >
> > I have had MANY private email discussions about VP play at various
Indian casinos. I would now like to open up the discussion to the entire
group.
> >
> > In general, there is a suspicion that machines are not as regulated on
private Indian land as in, for example, major Las Vegas casinos.
> >
> > My opinion is that there are undoubtedly unfair VP games being played
every day. In this economy the temptation to squeeze out every dime of
profit is too great to resist.
> >
> > In terms of my particular post today, I can inform you that there are
indeed some Indian casinos where I will not play. I base my choices not only
by personal experience but also by the many vpFREE members who email me.
Regardless of whether I and others are actually being "cheated", if you feel
unlucky or negative in a casino, then perhaps you should be playing
elsewhere anyway.
> >
> > But I would like to get a sense, in general, of how the group feels
about this issue. Any of your comments and reasoning would be appreciated.
> >
> > Mikey
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

__________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with
Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28
326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2960 - Release Date: 06/24/10 06:35:00

----------

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2960 - Release Date: 06/24/10 06:35:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2966 - Release Date: 06/27/10 06:35:00

----------

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2966 - Release Date: 06/27/10 06:35:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

How do you know that?

···

On 6/27/2010 8:12 AM, richct1472 wrote:

They have a 17% take or 83% Return

In a message dated 06/26/10 23:00:11 Eastern Daylight Time, videopoker@twcny.rr.com <mailto:videopoker%40twcny.rr.com> writes:
I only have one question ralated to these machines. What is the return. They show a payoff list like you will be full pay, but what is built into the stack, what return?
Want to have fun, throw out any hand you are dealt and you will never end up with a worse hand. All predetermined. Get two pair, draw all five cards over and you will get at least two pair. Have not, will not play unless I knew the answer to the frist question.

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Coleman
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 12:59 PM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

NY State racinos work like Washington state Indian casinos. They evaluate a
lottery scratch ticket and then display the results on a machine that either
looks like a slot or a VP machine. Just because your draw makes no
difference to the result does not mean it's cheating! They do not hide the
way the machine works. If you are not entertained by the machine, don't play
it. But it's not cheating.

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vpF…@…com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of
kelso 1600
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 5:03 AM
To: vpfree@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpfree%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?

Could you clarify what you are trying to point out in this message?

Monticello Raceway has nothing to do with Indian gaming.

And what do you mean by cheating?

(I do not see the picture that you are referring to.)

> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
> From: haaljo@yahoo.com <mailto:haaljo%40yahoo.com>
> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 03:43:50 +0000
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Do You Trust Indian Casinos?
>
> You want to see cheating? Visit the monticello NY website:
> www.monticellogamingandraceway.com/
> They have a picture of a VLT VP machine. Now that's cheating.
>
> I've been in a lot of indian casino's. I saw an obvious cheat at a San
Diego Quonsett Hut casino. Also, many years ago the Cherokee in North
Carolina but in general, have done well at the native joints.
> Dave in Boston
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>, "mikeymic" <mikeymic@...> wrote:
> >
> > I have had MANY private email discussions about VP play at various
Indian casinos. I would now like to open up the discussion to the entire
group.
> >
> > In general, there is a suspicion that machines are not as regulated on
private Indian land as in, for example, major Las Vegas casinos.
> >
> > My opinion is that there are undoubtedly unfair VP games being played
every day. In this economy the temptation to squeeze out every dime of
profit is too great to resist.
> >
> > In terms of my particular post today, I can inform you that there are
indeed some Indian casinos where I will not play. I base my choices not only
by personal experience but also by the many vpFREE members who email me.
Regardless of whether I and others are actually being "cheated", if you feel
unlucky or negative in a casino, then perhaps you should be playing
elsewhere anyway.
> >
> > But I would like to get a sense, in general, of how the group feels
about this issue. Any of your comments and reasoning would be appreciated.
> >
> > Mikey