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Do they issue W2G's on tournament winnings?

Hi gang,

Coming to town in January for my annual CES trip. I notice the LVH is
running a VP tourney Jan 1-3. First place is $6,000, second is
$3,000.

The questions are:
- do they issue W2G's for tournament winnings?
- if so, is it the same $1,200 threshold as for VP?

W2G's are a major hassle for me - being Canadian, they withold 30% of
my cash. I have to wait a year and file an IRS return to get me money
back.

Thanks in advance.

Brian

···

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They issue W-9's on winnings of more than $1500 for
tournaments.
Mark

···

--- Brian Lavoie <blavoie46@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi gang,

Coming to town in January for my annual CES trip. I
notice the LVH is
running a VP tourney Jan 1-3. First place is $6,000,
second is
$3,000.

The questions are:
- do they issue W2G's for tournament winnings?
- if so, is it the same $1,200 threshold as for VP?

W2G's are a major hassle for me - being Canadian,
they withold 30% of
my cash. I have to wait a year and file an IRS
return to get me money
back.

Thanks in advance.

Brian

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
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<<They issue W-9's on winnings of more than $1500 for
tournaments.>>

From "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler" -
"The tax treatment of tournaments is a touchy subject with gamblers. The IRS has ruled that tournament prizes of more than $600 must come with a 1099, without subtracting the tournament fee. Therefore, you will have to count a $600 tournament prize as a "win," even though you might have paid $1,000 to enter the darn thing. (This 1099 issuance is not consistent: Some casinos use the $600 figure to issue 1099s for one tournament, while others add all the tournament wins of any amount for one person in one year and issue a 1099 for the aggregate prizes that total $600 or above.)"

Live poker tournaments have even more complicated rules set by the IRS, and there is a special section discussing this later in that same chapter. (More details about this book can be found in my Web site below.)

I might add that some casinos might issue a W2G in error. Not all casinos, just like not all individuals, know or are able to follow the confusing IRS regulations.

···

________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  for VP software and strategy cards.
  NEW - Blackjack Strategy Cards +
              Updated Second Edition of
             "The Frugal Gambler."

They will send you a 1099 for winnings in turnys not sure but i know you get one at 1,000 just won 1.000 in a drawing at harrahs and had to sign a form,will get it ( 1099)most likely in feb just like w-2's

Mark Marsh <butnpushr@yahoo.com> wrote:
They issue W-9's on winnings of more than $1500 for
tournaments.
Mark

···

--- Brian Lavoie <blavoie46@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi gang,

Coming to town in January for my annual CES trip. I
notice the LVH is
running a VP tourney Jan 1-3. First place is $6,000,
second is
$3,000.

The questions are:
- do they issue W2G's for tournament winnings?
- if so, is it the same $1,200 threshold as for VP?

W2G's are a major hassle for me - being Canadian,
they withold 30% of
my cash. I have to wait a year and file an IRS
return to get me money
back.

Thanks in advance.

Brian

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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http://mail.yahoo.com

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi gang,

Coming to town in January for my annual CES trip. I notice the LVH

is

running a VP tourney Jan 1-3. First place is $6,000, second is
$3,000.

The questions are:
- do they issue W2G's for tournament winnings?
- if so, is it the same $1,200 threshold as for VP?

Actually, we Canadians don't get W2G's at all, we get 1042S's. I
believe the thresholds are the same for each, and they do issue them
for tournaments. But, the threshold may not be $1200.

I won $1000 in the Barbary Coast's summer invitational video poker
tournament. I actually received $700, and a 1042S showing the $300
US tax withheld. When I questioned withholding on an amount less
than $1200, I was told that the win was considered to be of a
promotional nature (because there was no entry fee?), and the
threshold for that type of payment was lower (I forget what number
was cited).

Since the Hilton tournament is also complimentary, the same rule
might apply. Of course, that assumes there really is a rule, and I
wasn't just a victim of someone's incorrect interpretation of a
vague guideline.

Neil

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Brian Lavoie <blavoie46@y...> wrote:

I enter many tournaments each year. With one
exception (see my comment below), I have always
received a 1099 for the entire year's winnings from
each casino, if I won $600 or more during the year.

     Jean, you are correct about casinos making
1099 mistakes. Recently, I received a W-2G for my
winnings in a comped slot tournament when I went
to collect the cash at the cashier's cage. The lady
at the window next to me was the first place winner
and she received a W-2G for her $5,000 win.

    The other winner and I discussed the fact that we
both were very happy to receive W-2G's rather than
1099's because we can now claim our gambling
losses against this W-2G income. Whereas, had
we received 1099's, we could not claim any gambling
losses against our tournament winnings and we
would owe more taxes.

On 12/14/05, Jean Scott <QueenofComps@frugalgambler.biz> wrote: <snip>
I might add that some casinos might issue a W2G in error. Not all casinos,
just like not all individuals, know or are able to follow the confusing IRS
regulations.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<<The other winner and I discussed the fact that we
both were very happy to receive W-2G's rather than
1099's because we can now claim our gambling
losses against this W-2G income. Whereas, had
we received 1099's, we could not claim any gambling
losses against our tournament winnings and we
would owe more taxes.>>

Many (most?) gamblers DO add 1099 gambling amounts to their machine/table gambling wins. This is an area that is not covered clearly in the IRS regulations, but most knowledgeable accountants and tax preparers will advise that these can be added together if the 1099 income (like for tournaments or drawings) is directly related to gambling. It could be considered gambling INCOME rather than a PRIZE.

In the tax book, I said that one professional gambler, when asked if the nature of the casino paperwork determined how to report something, responded: "The character of the income is not changed by the form on which the casino reports it - the 1099 or the W-2G."

I would like to give a bit of explanation about the book Marissa and I wrote, "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler." This book is not a full-length regular-size paperback book, but is an 8 1/2 by 11 "handbook." It does not profess to cover every possible tax situation of every gambler. So many tax issues and IRS regulations, especially concerning gambling, are so vague that this would be impossible to do in the first place. However, this book does cover the tax basics that every gambler should know. Since so many of the IRS regulations were written a long time ago, many gamblers have a hard time seeing how a lot of present-day casino gambling fits. This book was written to help gamblers with this problem, especially if their tax preparers were not gamblers themselves and didn't understand all the details and couldn't answer their questions.

Marissa is a very knowledgeable and experienced gambler herself as well as an EA (enrolled agent) who is a financial planner as well as a professional tax preparer, with many years of experience in these areas. Obviously, not everyone interprets the tax code in exactly the same way, not even IRS personnel themselves! So, she and I presented the basics very clearly, but always advising that personal circumstances should be the final guide. And we always suggest that readers just use this as a general guide and seek professional advice for their particular details.

If you want to know the subjects that we cover in the book, you will find them at my Web site below. Click on "Books" and then on "Tax Help Handbook."

I have had a lot of comments about this book e-mailed to me personally and most of them have been very positive. I do not have a problem with negative comments if they are specific enough that I can address them. If you think there is something that is inaccurate, let me know. Sometimes this may not be a matter of right or wrong but may just be a common problem of interpretation - not all professionals agree on every one.

I have had comments that people would like more examples, more court cases, more coverage of specialized issues. So Marissa and I are gathering material now to enlarge the scope of this book and this new expanded edition - probably in regular paperback form - will be available next year, probably by the fall.

Marissa and I welcome any suggestions you might want to send us.

···

________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  for VP software and strategy cards.
  NEW - Blackjack Strategy Cards +
              Updated Second Edition of
             "The Frugal Gambler."

Jean:

     I do not understand your statement ["Many (most?)
gamblers DO add 1099 gambling amounts to their
machine/table gambling wins"]. I was reffering to
claiming gambling *losses* against gambling winnings,
not *adding* 1099 amounts to my winnings.

     In any case, when you say 'many gamblers' are you
referring to 'professional' gamblers or regular folk who
happen to have some gambling winnings to report?

     Your quote about the 'professional gambler' ["The
character of the income is not changed by the form
on which the casino reports it - the 1099 or the W-2G."]
may be correct for taxpayers filing as 'professional
gamblers.' But, I still don't understand how a regular
guy like I am (who does not file a tax return as a
professional gambler) can deduct gambling losses
against *any* 1099 income. Can you better explain
how that works? Thanks.

     Curtis

···

On 12/15/05, Jean Scott <QueenofComps@frugalgambler.biz> wrote:

<<The other winner and I discussed the fact that we
both were very happy to receive W-2G's rather than
1099's because we can now claim our gambling
losses against this W-2G income. Whereas, had
we received 1099's, we could not claim any gambling
losses against our tournament winnings and we
would owe more taxes.>>

Many (most?) gamblers DO add 1099 gambling amounts to their machine/table
gambling wins. This is an area that is not covered clearly in the IRS
regulations, but most knowledgeable accountants and tax preparers will
advise that these can be added together if the 1099 income (like for
tournaments or drawings) is directly related to gambling. It could be
considered gambling INCOME rather than a PRIZE.

In the tax book, I said that one professional gambler, when asked if the
nature of the casino paperwork determined how to report something,
responded: "The character of the income is not changed by the form on
which
the casino reports it - the 1099 or the W-2G."

I would like to give a bit of explanation about the book Marissa and I
wrote, "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler." This book is not a full-length
regular-size paperback book, but is an 8 1/2 by 11 "handbook." It does
not
profess to cover every possible tax situation of every gambler. So many
tax
issues and IRS regulations, especially concerning gambling, are so vague
that this would be impossible to do in the first place. However, this
book
does cover the tax basics that every gambler should know. Since so many
of
the IRS regulations were written a long time ago, many gamblers have a
hard
time seeing how a lot of present-day casino gambling fits. This book was
written to help gamblers with this problem, especially if their tax
preparers were not gamblers themselves and didn't understand all the
details
and couldn't answer their questions.

Marissa is a very knowledgeable and experienced gambler herself as well as
an EA (enrolled agent) who is a financial planner as well as a
professional
tax preparer, with many years of experience in these areas. Obviously,
not
everyone interprets the tax code in exactly the same way, not even IRS
personnel themselves! So, she and I presented the basics very clearly,
but
always advising that personal circumstances should be the final
guide. And
we always suggest that readers just use this as a general guide and seek
professional advice for their particular details.

If you want to know the subjects that we cover in the book, you will find
them at my Web site below. Click on "Books" and then on "Tax Help
Handbook."

I have had a lot of comments about this book e-mailed to me personally and
most of them have been very positive. I do not have a problem with
negative
comments if they are specific enough that I can address them. If you
think
there is something that is inaccurate, let me know. Sometimes this may
not
be a matter of right or wrong but may just be a common problem of
interpretation - not all professionals agree on every one.

I have had comments that people would like more examples, more court
cases,
more coverage of specialized issues. So Marissa and I are gathering
material now to enlarge the scope of this book and this new expanded
edition - probably in regular paperback form - will be available next
year,
probably by the fall.

Marissa and I welcome any suggestions you might want to send us.
________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
for VP software and strategy cards.
NEW - Blackjack Strategy Cards +
             Updated Second Edition of
            "The Frugal Gambler."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

But, I still don't understand how a regular

···

guy like I am (who does not file a tax return as a
professional gambler) can deduct gambling losses
against *any* 1099 income. Can you better explain
how that works? Thanks.

===============================
New Years Eve 1999 I won $1,000 in a drawing at Reserve (now Fiesta
Henderson). The drawing was related to electronic entries earned the
past week based on play. I was issued a 1099. At tax time, I gave it
to my CPA accountant and his interpretation was that it was related to
gambling and was lumped in with my other W-2G's. That was good enough
for me! Of course, I have not been audited since 1982 (thankfully) so
I don't know how the IRS or a tax court would see it. My observations
over the past several years is: I was audited in 1982 and the auditors
tossed out some significant deductions I'd claimed and given me a
large tax bill. I fought this for over a year and a an IRS supervisor
at the same audit office gave me back the deductions. Taxes and their
treatment are in the eyes of the beholder.

<< Jean:

     I do not understand your statement ["Many (most?)
gamblers DO add 1099 gambling amounts to their
machine/table gambling wins"]. I was reffering to
claiming gambling *losses* against gambling winnings,
not *adding* 1099 amounts to my winnings.

     In any case, when you say 'many gamblers' are you
referring to 'professional' gamblers or regular folk who
happen to have some gambling winnings to report?

     Your quote about the 'professional gambler' ["The
character of the income is not changed by the form
on which the casino reports it - the 1099 or the W-2G."]
may be correct for taxpayers filing as 'professional
gamblers.' But, I still don't understand how a regular
guy like I am (who does not file a tax return as a
professional gambler) can deduct gambling losses
against *any* 1099 income. Can you better explain
how that works? Thanks.>>

Short answer: if you itemize, you can deduct all your gambling losses (up to the amount of your wins) and that will reduce the tax on your gambling income, including W2Gs and 1099s.

Curtis, you ask good questions and you have received some good answers from other members of the list. The problem with my answering your questions is that there is often no short answer. I gave one above but there are so many different "ifs" and "buts." You are asking about how the recreational gambler handles gambling wins and losses. This is not a short answer - there are many issues here. It is not wise for me to give you a short answer since your circumstances might not fit into that short answer at all.

  That is why I wrote the tax book. So Marissa and I could go into the whole subject and give someone like you the basics. It took us 27 pages to cover what a full answer to your question would be.

I guess I am frustrated here. I am accused of being "commercial" when I mention my products. I wish I could convey how tired I am of writing books. I'm almost 67 years old - I really do want to retire. I have enough money - I don't need anymore. But when I have knowledge and information that I feel will help a lot of people, I have this inner urge (the old teacher in me never died) to share it.

So, Curtis, to be very honest with you - you definitely need more basic information about this whole subject. People on this list can give you short answers, but I think you would find it helpful to read a basic overview of this subject. I wish I could point you to another source that would do this well. There have been a few other books published on the subject but most of them have not been updated. "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler" will give you a good foundation as it has done for hundreds of others. If you don't want to buy it, try to get your public library to get a copy you could borrow. My other 2 books are often in the public library - and I often suggest people borrow them there. Or, drink a cup of coffee at Barnes and Nobles and read them there for free!!!! :slight_smile:

···

________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  for VP software and strategy cards.
  NEW - Blackjack Strategy Cards +
              Updated Second Edition of
             "The Frugal Gambler."