Since sigma is defunct, can't other companies manufacture machines like flush attack, 5 joker, double joker full pay, and ten hand stud poker where you are dealt ten cards, select seven cards, and have all ten hands dealt using only the seven kept cards. Also, how about sneak peak.?
···
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On Jul 21, 2010, at 3:29 AM, vpFREE@yahoogroups.com wrote:
vpFREE
Messages In This Digest (21 Messages)
1a.
Re: where can i determine payback percentage of multistrike games? From: dynamite9758
1b.
Re: where can i determine payback percentage of multistrike games? From: vp_wiz
1c.
Re: where can i determine payback percentage of multistrike games? From: Dave
1d.
Re: where can i determine payback percentage of multistrike games? From: Jean Scott
1e.
Re: where can i determine payback percentage of multistrike games? From: vp_wiz
1f.
Re: where can i determine payback percentage of multistrike games? From: vp_wiz
1g.
Re: where can i determine payback percentage of multistrike games? From: Cogno Scienti
2a.
Any extra coupons? From: HOHOHONDO
2b.
Re: Any extra coupons? From: Mitchell Tsai
3.
LVA Question of the Day - 20 JUL 2010 From: vpFREE Administrator
4.
LV Advisor Top Ten Values - JUL 2010 From: vpFREE Administrator
5.
vpFREE Exchange - JUL 2010 From: vpFREE Administrator
6.
Jackpot Pictures - JUL 2010 From: vpFREE Administrator
7a.
Flush Attack From: Jean Scott
7b.
Re: Flush Attack From: bjaygold@aol.com
7c.
Re: Flush Attack From: corvetteracing87
7d.
Re: Flush Attack From: stuckinvegas
7e.
Re: Flush Attack From: vpFREE Administrator
8.
Bob Dancer's CasinoGaming Column - 20 JUL 2010 From: vpFREE Administrator
9.
American Casino Guide Newsletter - JUN 2010 From: vpFREE Administrator
10.
LVSun - Retirees, with nest eggs crushed, can’t muster Strip rebound From: vpFREE Administrator
View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages
1a.
Re: where can i determine payback percentage of multistrike games?
Posted by: "dynamite9758" dynamite67@comcast.net dynamite9758
Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:54 am (PDT)Thanks for info. I agree this game requires a nice bankroll. It is fun to play. I never hit a royal on top line but was dealt 4 aces on top line last week on DDB and then drew kicker.
Where do i get the VP scouting guide?
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@...> wrote:
>
> If you have the "VP Scouting Guide," you can quickly check it for MS
> returns. Those charts give the EV for every paytable available in MS
> machines.
>
> The Guide also gives the break-even point for most RF progressives (quarters
> and dollars).
>
> This is why I - and many other skilled and knowledgeable players - carry the
> Guide with them at all times when they are in a casino. There are so many
> different paytables that it is almost impossible to keep all this
> information in your head.
>
> As far as MS, a general rule of thumb is that it adds about .2% to the base
> game EV - a little more or less depending on the particular game. Of course
> this added EV comes ONLY if you know how/when to change your strategy on
> each line. Not a game for the faint of heart or for someone who has a small
> bankroll, both psychological and financial. The volatility is mind-numbing.
> We had just about given up on the game when I finally got a top-line royal.
> ________________
> Jean $€ ¦¢ott, Frugal Gambler
> http://queenofcomps.com/
> You can read my blog at
> http://jscott.lvablog.com/
>Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
Messages in this topic (12)
1b.
Re: where can i determine payback percentage of multistrike games?
Posted by: "vp_wiz" harry.porter@verizon.net vp_wiz
Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:15 am (PDT)dynamite9758 wrote:
> Thanks for info. I agree this game requires a nice bankroll. It is
> fun to play. I never hit a royal on top line but was dealt 4 aces
> on top line last week on DDB and then drew kicker.In very round numbers, you'll likely find $1 4-line multistrike play a comfortable play over the longer haul if you're presently comfortable with play of the same game in $1 single line. (The swings are actually more intense than $.50 single line play, but a bit smoothing than $1)
Just as a refresher, MS ER is about .2% greater than standard single line play provided you make appropriate strategy changes. (See Dancer article previously referenced in this thread.) Forego those and instead wing it with your standard play strategy and you can look to give up the better part of a full 2% ER away to the house.
For example, playing 9/6 Jacks standard strategy reduces your play ER to 97.8%. The higher level multipliers are an important part of return and it's necessary to adjust strategy on lower levels to increase your odds of advancement.
A strategy that changes with each level really keeps you on your toes. If your nature is for a more relaxed posture during play, it may not be the optimal choice.
A saving grace from both the complex strategy and bankroll demand perspectives is that the game can be played with an attractive ER at just 2 or 3 levels. In fact, I recommend 2 level play to those who want to dabble a bit before approaching it with regularity.
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1c.
Re: where can i determine payback percentage of multistrike games?
Posted by: "Dave" haaljo@yahoo.com haaljo
Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:30 am (PDT)"I recommend 2 level play to those who want to dabble a bit before
approaching it with regularity."But I would think appropriate strategy changes needed for 2 or 3 level. I normally play 3 level FPJBMS. It's still mucho fun and, as you noted, less violatile.
I love multi-strike. But Super Times Pay Multi-strike 5 play definetly the crack cocaine of VP. Yummy!
Great post, Good information.--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_wiz" <harry.porter@...> wrote:
>
> dynamite9758 wrote:
> > Thanks for info. I agree this game requires a nice bankroll. It is
> > fun to play. I never hit a royal on top line but was dealt 4 aces
> > on top line last week on DDB and then drew kicker.
>
>
> In very round numbers, you'll likely find $1 4-line multistrike play a comfortable play over the longer haul if you're presently comfortable with play of the same game in $1 single line. (The swings are actually more intense than $.50 single line play, but a bit smoothing than $1)
>
> Just as a refresher, MS ER is about .2% greater than standard single line play provided you make appropriate strategy changes. (See Dancer article previously referenced in this thread.) Forego those and instead wing it with your standard play strategy and you can look to give up the better part of a full 2% ER away to the house.
>
> For example, playing 9/6 Jacks standard strategy reduces your play ER to 97.8%. The higher level multipliers are an important part of return and it's necessary to adjust strategy on lower levels to increase your odds of advancement.
>
> A strategy that changes with each level really keeps you on your toes. If your nature is for a more relaxed posture during play, it may not be the optimal choice.
>
> A saving grace from both the complex strategy and bankroll demand perspectives is that the game can be played with an attractive ER at just 2 or 3 levels. In fact, I recommend 2 level play to those who want to dabble a bit before approaching it with regularity.
>Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
Messages in this topic (12)
1d.
Re: where can i determine payback percentage of multistrike games?
Posted by: "Jean Scott" queenofcomps@cox.net queenofcomps
Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:08 am (PDT)<<In very round numbers, you'll likely find $1 4-line multistrike play a
comfortable play over the longer haul if you're presently comfortable with
play of the same game in $1 single line. (The swings are actually more
intense than $.50 single line play, but a bit smoothing than $1)>>Hummmm.....Harry, I really respect your VP knowledge, but I would have to
disagree here. We are quite comfortable playing FIVE DOLLAR single line,
even $5 Triple Play. But our $1 4-line MS long-term experience (over many
many years) shows that the losing streaks are much longer and the long-term
ride is much more roller-coaster like with steeper ups and downs.Someone else wrote: <<Where do I get the VP scouting guide?>>
Go to my Web site below, in my signature block, where you will be directed
to a site that handles orders for my products.
________________
Jean $€ ¦¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
Messages in this topic (12)
1e.
Re: where can i determine payback percentage of multistrike games?
Posted by: "vp_wiz" harry.porter@verizon.net vp_wiz
Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:23 pm (PDT)Jean Scott wrote:
> <<In very round numbers, you'll likely find $1 4-line multistrike
> play a comfortable play over the longer haul if you're presently
> comfortable with play of the same game in $1 single line. (The
> swings are actually more intense than $.50 single line play, but a
> bit smoothing than $1)>>
>
> Hummmm.....Harry, I really respect your VP knowledge, but I would
> have to disagree here. We are quite comfortable playing FIVE
> DOLLAR single line, even $5 Triple Play. But our $1 4-line MS
> long-term experience (over many many years) shows that the losing
> streaks are much longer and the long-term ride is much more roller-
> coaster like with steeper ups and downs.Jean, I would be surprised if you're spot on. I'm a very infrequent MS player.
I've deferred to reports of some who I trust, who report variance experience that's lower than single line play at the same total wager.
However, MS variance for a game like 9/6 Jacks calculates as 21.0, suggesting something more volatile than the single line version (with 19.5 variance). When you factor in a higher ER by comparison, I'd expect a loss experience reasonably comparable.
But, of course, MS does dramatically differ from single line play in the long cycles of some of the highest jackpots (where, for example, a top line RF has a cycle > 300K hands). That certainly speaks to a greater lopsidedness in losing vs winning sessions.
Nonetheless, the variance math (which despite the seeming obscurity represents a fairly straightforward calculation of expected deviation from game ER) suggests a comparable loss experience overall.
It sounds like, by contrast, that you've seen a decent number of % loss sessions that lie distinctly to the south of your single line experience.
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Messages in this topic (12)
1f.
Re: where can i determine payback percentage of multistrike games?
Posted by: "vp_wiz" harry.porter@verizon.net vp_wiz
Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:47 pm (PDT)I wrote:
> Jean, I would be surprised if you're spot on. I'm a very infrequent > MS player.That was supposed to be, "I WOULDN'T BE ..."
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Messages in this topic (12)
1g.
Re: where can i determine payback percentage of multistrike games?
Posted by: "Cogno Scienti" cognoscienti@gmail.com cogno_scienti
Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:56 pm (PDT)Vp_wiz wrote:
> However, MS variance for a game like 9/6 Jacks calculates as 21.0,
> suggesting something more volatile than the single line version (with
> 19.5 variance). When you factor in a higher ER by comparison, I'd
> expect a loss experience reasonably comparable.Are you getting those numbers from the VPW bankroll calculator? I'm not
quite sure how to interpret them. The number on the left says "per coin" and
the one on the right says "player's revenue." But the one on the right is
equal to the one on the left times the square of the number of coins bet.
Clearly the variance cannot be different if, say, you bet 25 $1 coins versus
5 $5 coins on a single-line game. Standard deviation and variance are
defined with reference to a unit bet. So I'm not really sure what that
means, or if the bankroll calculator is correct.In MS, the first line has a variance a little higher than regular 9/6 JB
(because of strategy changes). The other lines are exponentially higher
because in computing variance the payouts are squared but the probability is
not. I get 162 for the 8x game by brute force. This is about 8x the base
game, so it seems about right. If the lines were independent, you could add
the variances together to get approximately 15x the base game. They aren't
independent and I don't know how that affects the variance exactly but I
think it increases it by weeding out results closer to the mean.So I believe MS has a variance at least 15x that of a single-line game. That
means quarter MS has almost four times the variance as dollar single
line...more like a $5 game.Cogno
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Messages in this topic (12)
2a.
Any extra coupons?
Posted by: "HOHOHONDO" hohohondo@yahoo.com HOHOHONDO
Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:56 am (PDT)Hello everyone.
We're squeezing in an extra trip to our favorite place on August 11. I would welcome any extra table game coupons, especially Sahara 50 for 40.
Please let me know what you would like in exchange. Many of my buffet coupons are available since I get free meals using points.Thanks,
LINDA HEFFERNAN
123 MAIDEN LN
BERGENFIELD NJ 07621Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
Messages in this topic (2)
2b.
Re: Any extra coupons?
Posted by: "Mitchell Tsai" tsai@cs.ucla.edu tsaimitch
Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:24 pm (PDT)If you don't have ACG 2010 yet ($11.53 at Buy.com, Free shipping over
$25),
there's a $25 match (Sahara, once/month) & $25 match (Westin Casurina,
once/30 days, but I've never tried them yet).I have some extras which I can trade (and also have Barnes & Noble
cards to buy more ACG books).
If you have any free buffet coupons I'd be interested. I'm single, so
2 for 1s aren't as useful (although I can split buffets with
strangers).I have some smaller $5 & $10 matches since I don't bother going off
the strip/downtown for such a small amount.
Which tables?Mitchell
On Jul 20, 2010, at 7:39 AM, HOHOHONDO wrote:
> Hello everyone.
> We're squeezing in an extra trip to our favorite place on August 11.
> I would welcome any extra table game coupons, especially Sahara 50
> for 40.
> Please let me know what you would like in exchange. Many of my
> buffet coupons are available since I get free meals using points.
>
> Thanks,
>
> LINDA HEFFERNAN
> 123 MAIDEN LN
> BERGENFIELD NJ 07621
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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3.
LVA Question of the Day - 20 JUL 2010
Posted by: "vpFREE Administrator" vpfreeadmin@cox.net vpfree_3
Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:25 am (PDT)Q: Are "resort fees" taxable income for hotels? I've seen
people on the LVA message board claiming that hotels prefer
to add resort fees instead of raising rates because the
resort fees aren't subject to sales tax. If that's the case,
what's to stop hotels from charging a $1 room rate with a
$68 "resort fee"? To me, it's income that the hotel is
bringing in and should be taxable. Who is right? (... and,
either way, I'm anti-resort fee. I'd rather see hotels
advertise their actual rates, not fake lower rates that come
with mandatory fees.)Read the answer here:
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm
<a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm">
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm</a>NOTE: vpFREE access to the Question of the Day link has
been approved by LVA and expires after the current day
for non-LVA members.*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
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4.
LV Advisor Top Ten Values - JUL 2010
Posted by: "vpFREE Administrator" vpfreeadmin@cox.net vpfree_3
Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:50 am (PDT)The latest LV Advisor Top 10 Values List can be accessed
via vpFREE Links or at:http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/topten.cfm
<a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/topten.cfm">
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/topten.cfm</a>************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes and doesn't
constitute an endorsement or approval of the linked article's
content by vpFREE. Any discussion of the article must be done
in accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.************************************************
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5.
vpFREE Exchange - JUL 2010
Posted by: "vpFREE Administrator" vpfreeadmin@cox.net vpfree_3
Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:55 am (PDT)Listings now include:
- Custom Embroidery
- Enrolled Agents for tax assistance
- Professional Sports Jerseys
- Senior-level Freelance Technical Writer
- Vegas Job Links
The vpFREE Exchange is accessible via vpFREE Links"
or directly at:http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links_CX.htm
<a href="http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links_CX.htm">
http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links_CX.htm</a>Any member who would like to have a listing in the vpFREE
Exchange should send me a private email with a short blurb
and contact information.The vpFREE Exchange will be publicized by periodic posts
to vpFREE.vpFREE Administrator
vpFREEadmin -at- Cox.net******************************************
DISCLAIMER
vpFREE is, and will always remain, a non-profit operation. Neither
vpFREE nor the vpFREE Administrator has any financial interest, direct
or indirect, in any commercial video poker related product or endeavor.******************************************
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6.
Jackpot Pictures - JUL 2010
Posted by: "vpFREE Administrator" vpfreeadmin@cox.net vpfree_3
Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:56 am (PDT)The vpFREE Yahoo Photo Directory is now open to all vpFREE
members and they can / should upload their Jackpot Pictures
themselves.vpFREE Yahoo Photo Directory:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/photos/album/0/list
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/photos/album/0/list">
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/photos/album/0/list</a>When uploading pictures it is desirable that the current format
be used, especially in the "Photo Name" where the use of
"2009_06" for June 2009, "2009_11" for November 2009 etc. will
keep the pictures arranged chronologically by month.After you upload a picture to the Photo Directory you're welcome
to share it with other members by posting a link to the picture
on the vpFREE forum.If you shorten the link by using "http://tinyurl.com/" it will
make your picture easier to access.vpFREE Administrator
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7a.
Flush Attack
Posted by: "Jean Scott" queenofcomps@cox.net queenofcomps
Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:29 am (PDT)What manufacturer made those games???
________________
Jean $€ ¦¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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7b.
Re: Flush Attack
Posted by: "bjaygold@aol.com" bjaygold@aol.com bjaygold
Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:55 am (PDT)Sigma.
Brian
==============================
In a message dated 7/20/2010 11:29:31 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
queenofcomps@cox.net writes:What manufacturer made those games???
________________
Jean $€ ¦¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
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7c.
Re: Flush Attack
Posted by: "corvetteracing87" corvetteracing87@yahoo.com corvetteracing87
Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:51 pm (PDT)Yup, Sigma...and as I understand it, some of the LAST ones (at Carson Valley Inn) were recently taken out (I verified they're extinct)
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7d.
Re: Flush Attack
Posted by: "stuckinvegas" stuckinvegas@yahoo.com stuckinvegas
Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:55 pm (PDT)The manufacturer was IGT.
Basically, once a flush was hit a certain amount of times, the Flush Attack was activated. 125 coins was paid to the person that hit the next flush. If you were "whoring" the game, you held a pat flush and waited until the bonus was activated and then hit your draw button. Easy money.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Albert Pearson" <a-p@...> wrote:
>
> Well since no one else has answered, I will milk my memory and tell you what I recall about the game.
> As I recall the base game is a short pay version of double bonus. Th
> I am going to Laughlin for a couple of days next
> month. Could someone explain the Flush Attack games,
> please?
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
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7e.
Re: Flush Attack
Posted by: "vpFREE Administrator" vpfreeadmin@cox.net vpfree_3
Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:33 pm (PDT)"stuckinvegas" wrote:
> The manufacturer was IGT.
> Basically, once a flush was hit a certain amount of
> times, the Flush Attack was activated. 125 coins was
> paid to the person that hit the next flush. If you
> were "whoring" the game, you held a pat flush and waited
> until the bonus was activated and then hit your draw
> button. Easy money.> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Albert Pearson" <a-p@> wrote:
> > Well since no one else has answered, I will milk my memory and tell
> > you what I recall about the game.
> > As I recall the base game is a short pay version of double bonus. Th
> > I am going to Laughlin for a couple of days next
> > month. Could someone explain the Flush Attack games, please?Flush Attack wasn't made by IGT. Bjaygold already gave the
correct answer that Flush Attack was made by Sigma.For some reason, the post you quoted is from 2005.
vpFREE Administrator
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8.
Bob Dancer's CasinoGaming Column - 20 JUL 2010
Posted by: "vpFREE Administrator" vpfreeadmin@cox.net vpfree_3
Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:46 pm (PDT)Staying in the Game
http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2010/0720.html
<a href="http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2010/0720.html">
http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2010/0720.html</a>*************************************************
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and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
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discussion of the article must be done in
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9.
American Casino Guide Newsletter - JUN 2010
Posted by: "vpFREE Administrator" vpfreeadmin@cox.net vpfree_3
Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:03 pm (PDT)<a href="http://tinyurl.com/2af7mbf">
http://tinyurl.com/2af7mbf</a>*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
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10.
LVSun - Retirees, with nest eggs crushed, can’t muster Strip rebound
Posted by: "vpFREE Administrator" vpfreeadmin@cox.net vpfree_3
Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:24 pm (PDT)<a href="http://tinyurl.com/23gfmw8">
http://tinyurl.com/23gfmw8</a>*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
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