vpFREE2 Forums

Digest Number 2724

#1

Obviously I missed that campaign. My problem with it is that it flies in the face of the standard mathematical definition of Expected Value, which is always unit based. For example, an EV=0.9 means that you can expect a return of 90 percent of whatever amount you bet. Thus, EV is independent of the size of the bet or the number of coins.

If vpFREE wants to use a different definition of EV, I can't change that, but it seems that it would confuse some readers.

Dan

···

"vpFae6128305" <vpfae6128305@Cox.net> wrote:

A couple of years ago vpFREE campaigned aggressively and,
in hindsight, amazingly successfully to stop the common
practice of using EV and ER interchangeably.

In the context of game analysis, Dan's full post is dead on in stating
the standard definition of EV -- expected win (payout) from a hold,
expressed in bet units.

See FAQ #8 for vpFREE's definitions of EV and ER:

<http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ.htm#8>.

EV is stated in units or dollars

ER is a percentage measurement

--
Dan Paymar
Author of best selling book, "Video Poker - Optimum Play"
Editor/Publisher of VP newsletter "Video Poker Times"
Developer of VP analysis/trainer software "Optimum Video Poker"
Visit my web site at www.OptimumPlay.com

"Chance favors the prepared mind." -- Louis Pasteur

#2

>A couple of years ago vpFREE campaigned aggressively and,
>in hindsight, amazingly successfully to stop the common
>practice of using EV and ER interchangeably.

>See FAQ #8 for vpFREE's definitions of EV and ER:

<http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ.htm#8>.

>EV is stated in units or dollars

>ER is a percentage measurement

On 21 Nov 2005 at 14:07, Dan Paymar replied:

Obviously I missed that campaign. My problem with it is that it flies
in the face of the standard mathematical definition of Expected
Value, which is always unit based.

For example, an EV=0.9 means that you
can expect a return of 90 percent of whatever amount you bet. Thus,
EV is independent of the size of the bet or the number of coins.

First you say that EV is unit based and now you're saying that
EV is a percentage figure.

I believe your example is (should be) referring to ER rather than EV.

If you're right, mathematically speaking (and it doesn't sound right
to me), it shouldn't be extended to video poker (and isn't on vpFREE).
See the vpFREE Expected Value (EV) Usage Poll:

<http://members.cox.net/vpfree/P_EV.htm>

EV should be expressed in units and ER should be expressed
as a percentage figure and their relationship is explained by:

EV = [ER] X [coin-in]

If vpFREE wants to use a different definition of EV, I can't change
that, but it seems that it would confuse some readers.

IMO, what confused readers, players and a few VP gurus was the
former interchangeable usage of EV and ER . That confusion has
been eliminated on vpFREE.

vpFae

···

"vpFae6128305" <vpfae6128305@Cox.net> wrote: