Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 03:03:09 -0000
From: "fayokoyama" <FYokoyama@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Palms FPDWwhere did you hear that?
Frank
My wife and I are going back to the Palms again, mostly because we
love the rooms and the FPDW. But I have heard that the Palms no longer
stocks those games. Is this true?
Frank
Friend of mine was there for a short while and said he could not find any:(
Does the strategy change for progressive FPDW? I would guess not, but I'm not sure.
Thanks Karen.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "John Nonnweiler" <jrnjr@c...> wrote:
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: 20 Jul 2005 05:37:19 -0000
From: vpFREE
Subject: New file uploaded to vpFREEHello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vpFREE
group.File : /Beating The Casinos in Play and in Court.txt
Uploaded by : ros4144 <ros4144@yahoo.com>
Description : Casino attitude to advantage playersYou can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/files/Beating%20The%20Casinos%20in%20Play%20and%20in%20Court.txtTo learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/filesRegards,
ros4144 <ros4144@yahoo.com>
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 05:42:47 -0000
From: "Victoria Rosado" <ros4144@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vpFREEI just uploaded a long text file borrowed from cardcounter.com, if it
does not bother at all those in the group who have defended casino
tactics, then I can only surmise you work for the casino. Having
experienced being in their grasp once I can only ask you to take this
as a warning, though things perhaps will get better because they do
understand one thing. That is losing money in court.
Victoria________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 23:26:32 -0700
From: "vpFREE" <vpFREE@Cox.net>
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vpFREEOn 20 Jul 2005 at 5:42, Victoria Rosado wrote:
I just uploaded a long text file borrowed from cardcounter.com, if it
does not bother at all those in the group who have defended casino
tactics, then I can only surmise you work for the casino. Having
experienced being in their grasp once I can only ask you to take this as
a warning, though things perhaps will get better because they do
understand one thing. That is losing money in court. VictoriaI've deleted Victoria's message and the cardcounter.com file
because of copyright concerns. Here's a link to the article:http://www.cardcounter.com/main.pl?read=13552
<a href="http://www.cardcounter.com/main.pl?read=13552">
http://www.cardcounter.com/main.pl?read=13552</a>It's always better to post links when available rather than
posting complete articles.vpFREE Administrator
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 23:13:16 -0800
From: Bob Sommer - Top of the World Coins <NL7HT@barrow.com>
Subject: Re: Re: New file uploaded to vpFREEVictoria Rosado wrote:
I just uploaded a long text file borrowed from cardcounter.com, if it
does not bother at all those in the group who have defended casino
tactics, then I can only surmise you work for the casino. Having
experienced being in their grasp once I can only ask you to take this
as a warning, though things perhaps will get better because they do
understand one thing. That is losing money in court.
Victoria
------------------------------------------------------------------------Old news. So what has this voodoo lawyer done lately? Can you spell
"paranoia"? Yes, innocent people do occasionally get hauled into the
back room. But if everyone that was hauled off to the back room of a
casino was innocent, you would be reading about it all the time and the
courts would be overrun with lawsuits. But the percentage is extremely
low. I have no doubt that there are some bad security guards out there,
just like I have no doubt there are some bad people on here on VPFree.I have been invited and visited several Nevada "back rooms" over the
years, and I am still here. I still have fun when I am in town, visit
those same casinos, and never worry about it. The player has to do
something to trigger the attention from the casino, and 99.9% of the
time that trigger is GREED. If you find a really advantage play, for
whatever reason or game, don't get greedy. Play as you normally do and
don't draw attention to yourself. Leave after a reasonable amount of
time. You can always come back to the machine tomorrow, or look for the
same dealer another day. Unfortunately most will not follow this advice
and will get backed off a game, 86'ed, or the dreaded back room.There is also a Nevada state law that says if a player knowingly plays a
broken slot machine, it is considered cheating and theft. Nevada courts
have ruled that if you do not have to put money in the machine to play
or if you can hit, jerk the handle, or otherwise manipulate a machine to
alter it's normal play, it is assumed you know the machine is broken.Lets get back to VP.
Bob
------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 00:12:42 -0700
From: "vpFREE" <vpFREE@Cox.net>
Subject: Re: Palms FPDWOn 19 Jul 2005 at 17:44, John Nonnweiler wrote:
My wife and I are going back to the Palms again, mostly because we love
the rooms and the FPDW. But I have heard that the Palms no longer stocks
those games. Is this true?The 25c non-progressive FPDW has been MIA
at Palms since February. They still have a 25c
FPDW progressive bank.vpFREE Administrator
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 00:21:08 -0700
From: "vpFREE" <vpFREE@Cox.net>
Subject: Re: is online vp good value ?On 19 Jul 2005 at 13:49, planterxyz wrote:
i am new to vp,and notice most messages are about cash vp.Are the
online vp sites as good value ?Many vpFREE members (including me) don't play or track video
poker online because of randomness/fairness concerns.also where can you find the very basics of strategy for playing?
Buy some strategy cards or video poker software. See
"Commercial Products" <http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links_C.htm>.Also, there are some strategy charts on the individual pages
in the Cross Directory <http://members.cox.net/vpfree/CD.htm>.vpFREE Administrator
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:52:11 -0000
From: "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vpFREEBob Sommer wrote:
Old news. So what has this voodoo lawyer done lately? Can you
spell "paranoia"? Yes, innocent people do occasionally get hauled
into the back room. But if everyone that was hauled off to the back
room of a casino was innocent, you would be reading about it all the
time and the courts would be overrun with lawsuits.The player has to do something to trigger the attention from the
casino, and 99.9% of the time that trigger is GREED. If you find a
really advantage play, for whatever reason or game, don't get
greedy. Play as you normally do and don't draw attention to yourself
... Unfortunately most will not follow this advice and will get
backed off a game, 86'ed, or the dreaded back room.Lets get back to VP.
I'm surprised at your response, Bob. When I read between the lines,
you're clearly saying "they asked for it so, what do they expect"?The only issue is whether the treatment is warranted or, for that
matter, legal. Excessive force and detention are neither. The casino
has every right to 86 a player. But undue intimidation tactics that
go beyond a snarl (such as prolonged detention when it's clear there's
been no crime committed) are unconsciable and actionable.I don't care how unreasonable a player's manner of play may be -- if
no crime has been committed, as has been the case in these horror
tales, there's no defense of the casino's behavior. (I'm not gonna
touch the "voodoo" aspersion".)- Harry
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 06:22:26 -0500
From: "Chandler" <omnibibulous1@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: XVP: CASINO 'SECURITY'?: Gambling with your libertyWithout disputing the seriousness of the situation when back rooming does
occur, is this really a big problem for video poker players in Nevada? I
have been monitoring this forum for a while now and can recall reports of
people being backed off, losing slot club privileges and even possibly told
not to return, but I can recall only one report where a vp player was back
roomed. Maybe I have a case of selective memory, but it seems pretty
uncommon. My sympathies to other advantage gamblers where this practice may
occur with more regularity.Chandler
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 11:46:01 -0000
From: "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: XVP: CASINO 'SECURITY'?: Gambling with your libertyChandler wrote:
Without disputing the seriousness of the situation when back rooming
does occur, is this really a big problem for video poker players in
Nevada?No ... which is one reason I imagine Bob Sommer would prefer to see
the topic dropped here. There are other forums where the audience is
more apropos.Still, any general matter concerning the treatment of players by the
casino is of tangential interest to us and thus not an altogether
inappropriate topic.- Harry
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 11:49:01 -0000
From: "Michael Boutot" <vegas_iwish@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vpFREEBarbary & Gold Coast have always banned 21 players who had the
slightest run of success whether counting or not. Had seen it enough
myself before Stuart Perry's book. They are no alone. The idea that
THE issue is not the casino's greed as opposed to the players' is
baffling. I saw plenty of drunks/innocents who were winning taken off
roughly to the back area & almost went myself when I did not yet even
have a clue about counting. The casinos' PR dept should get a
standing ovation for the job they have done selling thier side to
some of the folks in here. We ARE "reading about it all the time" &
even experiencing it except apparently at that hall of perfection
(from repeated posts of the gentleman), the LVH.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:Bob Sommer wrote:
> Old news. So what has this voodoo lawyer done lately? Can you
> spell "paranoia"? Yes, innocent people do occasionally gethauled
> into the back room. But if everyone that was hauled off to the
back
> room of a casino was innocent, you would be reading about it all
the
> time and the courts would be overrun with lawsuits.
>
> The player has to do something to trigger the attention from the
> casino, and 99.9% of the time that trigger is GREED. If you finda
> really advantage play, for whatever reason or game, don't get
> greedy. Play as you normally do and don't draw attention toyourself
> ... Unfortunately most will not follow this advice and will get
> backed off a game, 86'ed, or the dreaded back room.
>
> Lets get back to VP.I'm surprised at your response, Bob. When I read between the lines,
you're clearly saying "they asked for it so, what do they expect"?The only issue is whether the treatment is warranted or, for that
matter, legal. Excessive force and detention are neither. Thecasino
has every right to 86 a player. But undue intimidation tactics that
go beyond a snarl (such as prolonged detention when it's clearthere's
been no crime committed) are unconsciable and actionable.
I don't care how unreasonable a player's manner of play may be -- if
no crime has been committed, as has been the case in these horror
tales, there's no defense of the casino's behavior. (I'm not gonna
touch the "voodoo" aspersion".)- Harry
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 12
Date: 20 Jul 2005 12:56:50 -0000
From: vpFREE
Subject: New file uploaded to vpFREEHello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vpFREE
group.File : /Sequential Royal.JPG
Uploaded by : art_mow <paddlejunkie@rocketmail.com>
Description : Reverse Sequential Royal on WinpokerYou can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/files/Sequential%20Royal.JPGTo learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/filesRegards,
art_mow <paddlejunkie@rocketmail.com>
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 07:20:07 -0500
From: "Chandler" <omnibibulous1@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Re: XVP: CASINO 'SECURITY'?: Gambling with your libertyI have never run into the topic so inappropriate that I could not ignore it.
I leave that particular judgement to others. I just thought I'd point out
that the sky doesn't appear to be falling today;-)Chandler
-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
Harry Porter
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 6:46 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: XVP: CASINO 'SECURITY'?: Gambling with your
libertyStill, any general matter concerning the treatment of players by the
casino is of tangential interest to us and thus not an altogether
inappropriate topic.- Harry
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:22:33 -0000
From: "Bob" <bob972@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Harrah'sCircus Circus did the same to me, after they sent me discounted room
mail. I had mixed feelings about it. I enjoy getting their mail, and
actually took them up on their room special, but wasn't overly excited
about receiving their recorded phone message.--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, baggitt15@a... wrote:
Harrah's has been calling me on the phone with a recorded message
reminding
me of a slot tournament invitation they recently mailed to me.
Anyone else have this happen?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 15
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:26:44 -0400
From: John Thomas <jfthomas3@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Harrah's> Anyone else have this happen?
Trump Marina in AC is famous for this -- they call at least once a
week with some stupid recorded message, even though I haven't set
foot in the place in at least 3 years.________________________________________________________________________
Message: 16
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 14:22:25 -0000
From: "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Harrah's--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, John Thomas wrote:
Trump Marina in AC is famous for this -- they call at least once a
week with some stupid recorded message, even though I haven't set
foot in the place in at least 3 years.
-------------------------------------------------Another very good reason for not giving ANY BUSINESS your personal
hard wired or cellphone number. If I absolutely MUST give a number,
I always give only my office number.
-Babe________________________________________________________________________
Message: 17
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 07:20:27 -0700
From: "vpFREE" <vpFREE@Cox.net>
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vpFREEOn 20 Jul 2005 at 12:56, vpFREE@yahoogroups.com wrote:
This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vpFREE
group.File : /Sequential Royal.JPG
Uploaded by : art_mow <paddlejunkie@rocketmail.com>
Description : Reverse Sequential Royal on WinpokerI've just deleted this file and put the picture in the Yahoo
vpFREE Photo Directory <http://tinyurl.com/dnzqc> as
Photo #49.I've also restricted upload access to the Files Directory
again. Contact me if you need to upload a file to the
Directory.vpFREE Administrator
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 18
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 07:36:23 -0700
From: "vpFREE" <vpFREE@Cox.net>
Subject: LVA Question of the DayQ: What is the largest slot jackpot ever hit?
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/QofDay.cfm
<a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/QofDay.cfm">
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/QofDay.cfm</a>NOTE: Access to the Question of the Day expires
after the current day for non LVA members.________________________________________________________________________
Message: 19
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 15:09:43 -0000
From: "VP Animal" <vpanimal@comcast.net>
Subject: Multistrike w/shortpay RFI know this is going to be bad, but does anyone know offhand how much
the EV drops on Multistrike if the RF on level 1 only pays 1250
instead of 4000? Levels 2, 3, and 4 all pay 4000 for the RF. It's
that way on all the games, but 8/5 Bonus Poker would be the likely
play.________________________________________________________________________
Message: 20
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 08:13:55 -0700
From: sabyl55@sonic.net
Subject: Re: Re: Harrah'sOn Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:26:44 -0400, you wrote:
> Anyone else have this happen?
Trump Marina in AC is famous for this -- they call at least once a
week with some stupid recorded message, even though I haven't set
foot in the place in at least 3 years.I was receiving calls from the Taj even though I live on the West
Coast, and because of time differences, I would sometimes get these
calls at 7:00 AM. I decided to call and complain, and I was told they
would remove me from the list so I would not receive phone offers
anymore, and I have not received a call from them since. So if you do
receive marketing calls from other casinos, I suspect you can call
Casino Marketing or your host and opt out.Sabyl
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 21
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 15:49:23 -0000
From: "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Variance & DDP (For Harry & Drew)--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpdeuces" <vpdeuces@y...> wrote:
Harry, I'm right there with you on the low variance bandwagon!
"If you stick to Jacks when you go play,
You won't lose all in just one day."(apologies to Babe--LOVED your post, BTW)
Drew
----------------------------------------------------
No apologies necessary, Drew. I enjoyed your post as well.
I think that you're right on the money with your take on playing
Jacks. USUALLY, your money lasts much longer with Jacks than it
does at the "big quad payoff" bonus games. So what if you don't
have the heart-thumping thrill of watching the 4th Ace and THEN
the kicker appear on your screen?If Double Double Bonus is your game,
you have no one but yourself to blame.
When your bankroll disappears in a flash,
and you're at the ATM to get more cash!So do as Harry and Drew wisely suggest,
and stick to JOB, the game you know best.
Okay Tom, I'll try to cut this out......
I'm headed for FREEvpFREE without a doubt!(-: Babe
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 22
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 14:16:41 -0000
From: "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:XVP - Being "Backroomed" ( New file uploaded to vpFREE)In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Sommer - Top of the World Coins
<NL7HT@b...> wrote:........ I have been invited and visited several Nevada "back rooms"
over the years, and I am still here. I still have fun when I am in
town, visit those same casinos, and never worry about it. The
player has to do something to trigger the attention from the casino,
and 99.9% of the time that trigger is GREED...............<snip>
Bob
-----------------------------------------------------------
Hi Bob,With all due respect, and a great deal of curiosity (I do believe
that satisfying one's curiosity EDUCATES rather than kills) I would
be most interested to learn about WHY you "have been invited and
visited several Nevada 'back rooms'".Were you in some sort of official capacity (as in law enforcement)?
Were you doing a special research project? Or, did you commit some
perceived transgression against the casino?I would also be interested in the PERSONAL experiences of others,
who have actually been in a "back room", voluntarily or
involuntarily.I think that Bob is quite correct in stating that VP players are
rarely backroomed, but rather backed off or trespassed. After all,
if they didn't subject the really big players, who took them for a
bundle (think BD) to this treatment, why would they do it to a
lesser winner?Nevertheless, I do think that inadequate and poorly trained casino
security coupled with a strong anti-advantage player
stance, on the part of the suits, augers badly for every casino
patron, no matter what game they are playing.Just my opinion, of course. I welcome the imput of others.
Babe
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 23
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 16:25:37 -0000
From: "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Multistrike w/shortpay RFVP Animal wrote:
I know this is going to be bad, but does anyone know offhand how much
the EV drops on Multistrike if the RF on level 1 only pays 1250
instead of 4000? Levels 2, 3, and 4 all pay 4000 for the RF. It's
that way on all the games, but 8/5 Bonus Poker would be the likely
play.This is a little confusing.
Level 1 should pay 1250 only if you're playing just that level with 5
coins. In that case, you're basically just playing single line vp.
You're talking 97.9%However, if you're play 2 levels or more at full coin, then Level 1
will pay 4000 for the RF.- H.
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 24
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 16:45:24 -0000
From: "dds2124" <dds6@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Golden Nugget Passport tourneys--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Houck" <macliverdamage@y...> wrote:
Does anyone know what the average score is to "get into the money" for
these things?thanks
Usually around 80,000 points
Don the Dentist
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 25
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 16:49:38 -0000
From: "sphboc2003" <sphboc@aol.com>
Subject: Re: XVP: CASINO 'SECURITY'?: Gambling with your liberty--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Victoria Rosado <ros4144@y...> wrote:
Very true but if you voluntarily go with them you will
most likely have no recourse. They strip search you,
they say they did not. They rough you up, they say
you started it. There will be no video in the
backroom.
Victoria--- ezfromnwon@a... wrote:
>
> Easier said than done.
>
> In a message dated 7/19/2005 5:27:05 PM Pacific
> Standard Time,
> ros4144@y... writes:
>
> You should insist upon being detained in a public
> areaSeems as if there "ought to be" either a State Law or a Gaming
Control Regulation concerning WHERE a suspected "cheater" may be
detained. If anyone has definite information concerning this, and/or
whether casino personnel may lawfully conduct any form of search
(over suspect's objections), please post same.________________________________________________________________________
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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