Of course, the player isn't directly affected at all. However, I have heard of players refer to burning a royal, as when one holds the high pair over the 3 card royal draw only to see the other 2 royal cards show up. So this may offer some pychological relief to those players who keep track.
But I agree that it is a simple trivia question which seems to have generated a lot of interest based on all the posts that I have read in this forum concerning it, so I finally decided to share what little I knew about it.
···
-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:14:08 -0700
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Digest Number 2344
There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Older IGT 25c machines versus the new style machines...
From: "mikephman55" <mikephman55@yahoo.com>
2. Re: Multple play variation/std dev.
From: "deuceswild1000" <deuceswild1000@yahoo.com>
3. June vpFREE Lunch + Free Show Tickets
From: "vpFREE" <vpFREE@Cox.net>
4. Dealt royal at Venetian got hit
From: "VpKing77" <vpking77@yahoo.com>
5. Re: Frugal Gambler, 2nd edition
From: "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@frugalgambler.biz>
6. LVSun - Nevada gives OK to wireless gaming devices in casinos
From: "vpFREE" <vpFREE@Cox.net>
7. LVA Today's News
From: "vpFREE" <vpFREE@Cox.net>
8. (Fwd) Trump Plaza (Atlantic City)
From: "vpFREE" <vpFREE@Cox.net>
9. Re: Multple play variation/std dev.
From: "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com>
10. Re: Help w/Frugal VP
From: "fvpwolf" <jimwolf@frugalgambler.biz>
11. Re: Standard Deviation of multiple line play
From: "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@yahoo.com>
12. Re: Standard Deviation of multiple line play
From: "deuceswild1000" <deuceswild1000@yahoo.com>
13. Re: Frugal Gambler, 2nd edition
From: "kbrandon75407" <kbrandon@peoplepc.com>
14. Re: SantaFe 1$ FPDW party over
From: "al55442" <al55442@cox.net>
15. Re: Frugal Gambler, 2nd edition
From: "kbrandon75407" <kbrandon@peoplepc.com>
16. Re: Re: Frugal Gambler, 2nd edition
From: "Rich & Karen Votava" <rnkvotava@charter.net>
17. Re: Older IGT 25c machines versus the new style machines...
From: "mufflerr" <mufflerr@yahoo.com>
18. Wynn's 34 day results.
From: "Skip Mogab" <riverboat_man@msn.com>
19. LVA Question of the Day
From: "vpFREE" <vpFREE@Cox.net>
20. New Jean Scott Frugal Fridays Column
From: "vpFREE" <vpFREE@Cox.net>
21. Re: Help w/Frugal VP
From: "golfergeek2001" <golfergeek2001@yahoo.com>
22. Re: Re: Help w/Frugal VP
From: RBerg9999@aol.com
23. Re: RNG Operation
From: " " <steveinnv@webtv.net>
24. Re: Re: RNG Operation
From: John Thomas <jfthomas3@comcast.net>
25. Got a Question--Wining at short pay
From: "golfergeek2001" <golfergeek2001@yahoo.com>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 02:01:55 -0000
From: "mikephman55" <mikephman55@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Older IGT 25c machines versus the new style machines...
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Skip Hughes <skiphughes@e...> wrote:
mufflerr wrote:
> Call me crazy, but it seems to me that the older style IGT 25c VP
> machines (where the coins spit out) overall turn up better hands in the
> short run, and are more cyclic, when compared to the newer style VP
> machines.Mufflerr;
You're not crazy. There is a simnple explanation of the difference in
(perceived) hot streaks between the old coin-only machines and the new ones.
It's all a matter of the speed of the game.On the newer machines hands can be played at least 5 times as fast (in the
case of multiplays make that 20 times as fast) as the old coin-only machines.
When we used to hit several good hands in a short time, with all the coins
falling into the bin, it was a very noticeable and enjoyable event. Just the
fact of the coins dropping slowed things down and extended the clock time of the
hot streak.Often after hitting a bunch of good hands and having the coin bin fill up, we
would just fill up buckets and go cash out our hot streak (didn't we). But we
might have only played a couple hundred hands over a period of an hour or an
hour and a half.Even if you are slow player, you are playing much faster with the new machines.
I have hit a royal on a quarter machine and not even noticed it right away.
Smaller jackpots rack up points which may decline quickly. All of this tends to
smooth out the bumps over the same amount of time, even though hand by hand, the
fluctuation remains the same.
--
Thanks!
Skip
http://www.vpinsider.com
--
Thanks!
Skip
http://www.vpinsider.com
Thanks Skip. I've long had the same perception as mufflerr on the old vs new. The game is
lightning fast now vs then. I have more royals annually than I ever used to, but on single
line I'm playing at 1000+hands/hr vs 600/hr before. There are times I wish for the good
old days. The pace seemed better and the fun lasted longer.
Thanks!
Mike
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 02:40:58 -0000
From: "deuceswild1000" <deuceswild1000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Multple play variation/std dev.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@y...> wrote:
Draw poker can be split into two parts, the deal and then the draw.
So, calculate the variance of the deal, call it the dealt variance,
and then calculate the variance of the draw and call it drawn
variance. The drawn variance is hardest to calculate because there
are
lots of possibilites, however, you already know the total variance
of
the single line game. Total variance = dealt variance + drawn
variance, or in the
case of multiple draws based on the same dealt hand, dealt variance
plus (drawn variance/N). If you know Total variance for a single
line
game, and you solve for dealt variance,
Is calc dealt variance easier said than done?
then you know
drawn variance. Once you know drawn variance, you can then
calculate
the total variance of a multiplay game.
Steps:
1. Calculate total Variance of single line game
Ok, just to make sure we are communicating what is the formula. I
use Sum probability of hand *(payback of hand- expected value)^2 If
this is correct then your Google reference does answer this,but does
not address co-variance, dealt variance, and draw variance. In fact
most on line articles that I read don't even deal with video poker.
That is why I am looking for references.
2. Calculate dealt Variance of single line game
Ok, that is one of my question for which I asked for help and
hopefuly a reference.
3. drawn Variance = total Variance - dealt Variance
Ok, but most research I have done uses variance and co-variance but
maybe this is where I need help. I definitely need help learning to
calc co-variance
4. multiplay Variance = dealt Variance + (drawn Variance/N) where
N=number of drawn hands per dealt hand
Ok this is a BIGGY. I do NOT find that formula in any reference
that I have found on line. Either that or you have transposed it to
a form that I do not recognize. Reiterating, I am of the
impression that we can use variance and co-variance also. So if
possible would prefer to work with that.
Then finally how does one turn this number into the answer to the
question that I asked for 4900 pushes of the deal button at five
lines per push at 5 credits per line at 5c per credit = $1.25 so
that I would have the same amount of money at risk as if I were
playing 4900 games of single line 25c at full coin of 5. You said
that I had done the calc correctly for single line. Now if I can
get this answer, I can make a direct comparison of these sets of
conditions.
I figured if some one could tell me how to calc covariance, how to
use it to figure Total std dev (BY THIS I MEAN MULTIPLE LINES AT
MULTIPLE PUSHES OF THE DEAL BUTTON-----no I am not shouting, but
underling or italics are not possible on this forum). Then I could
taylor that info to other games and combinations and denominations.
Example:
1. fpdw total variance = 26
2. fpdw dealt variance = 3
3. fpdw drawn variance therefore = 26 -3 = 23
4. fpdw multiplay variance therefore = 3 + 23/N
Most of the references that I understood gave co-variance adnd total
variance per hand, at least that is my understanding. That is why I
concentrated on co-variance and total var. per hand rather than
dealt var. In WoO he uses n and n that appear to me to be two
different numbers and then references single variance and co-
varaince. I tried to follow his examples but got lost. So I asked
for help using variance and covariance. If it can only be explained
using dealt variance then lets start there.
Lastly vpFREE adm. I will take this off forum if you would like.
However there are three reasons for leaving it on forum.
1)It seems to pertain to vp more than rental codes, quality of
steaks, and some of the other off topic posts.
2)The results are scrutinized by others who may have a different
take on the subject (and I hope they will chime in if they do).
3)Or maybe more importantly, may have a different way of explaining
the
subject that finally lights up the scene. I am sure all have
experienced that where hearing it a differnt way suddenly breaks
through.
Skip your reply is appreciated, but am still trying to make the
calculations.
Your call Tom.
DWK
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:15:31 -0700
From: "vpFREE" <vpFREE@Cox.net>
Subject: June vpFREE Lunch + Free Show Tickets
The June vpFREE lunch will be on Saturday 18 June at
the Gold Coast Buffet at 11:30 AM.
This is an informal, Dutch treat lunch. Show up at the
buffet entrance by 11:30 to ensure sitting with the group.
RSVP's aren't required but are appreciated. The vpFREE
Administrator and Ms. vpFREE plan to attend.
A vpFREE member has donated two free show tickets to the
Ramsey Lewis Trio show at the Suncoast showroom on Saturday
6/25 at 7:30 pm. Seats are in a Tier 2 booth.
If more than one person wants the tickets, they will be
given to whoever's home is farthest away.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 06:26:11 -0000
From: "VpKing77" <vpking77@yahoo.com>
Subject: Dealt royal at Venetian got hit
The $250,000 triple play $1 dealt royal got hit at the Venetian in the
last couple of days.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:28:11 -0700
From: "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@frugalgambler.biz>
Subject: Re: Frugal Gambler, 2nd edition
<<Does anyone know if this book is available at a store (outside of
Vegas)? I want to get the most current version, but can only find the
1st edition for sale locally. In fact, Barnes & Noble doesn't even
show a 2nd edition as being available. Didn't it come out a while ago?
I would just order it, but I leave for Vegas in 2 weeks & want to make
sure I have it before then.
You could order it Priority Mail at my Web site and I would send it out
immediately and you should get it in 2 or 3 days. The book has been out for
several weeks - but it takes a long time for it to get into most bookstores.
Book distribution system is VERY slow!!!!
<<Also, what are the differences in the two editions? Just more current
info or are there new chapters, etc.?>>
The second edition has just been updated - no new chapters.
________________________________________
Jean $ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
for VP software and strategy cards.
NEW - Blackjack Strategy Cards +
Updated Second Edition of
"The Frugal Gambler."
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 23:35:49 -0700
From: "vpFREE" <vpFREE@Cox.net>
Subject: LVSun - Nevada gives OK to wireless gaming devices in casinos
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/9br72">
http://tinyurl.com/9br72</a>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 23:45:57 -0700
From: "vpFREE" <vpFREE@Cox.net>
Subject: LVA Today's News
Updated through 2 JUN
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/whatsnews.cfm?WhatsNewsID=495
<a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/whatsnews.cfm?WhatsNewsID=495">
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/whatsnews.cfm?WhatsNewsID=495</a>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 01:00:14 -0700
From: "vpFREE" <vpFREE@Cox.net>
Subject: (Fwd) Trump Plaza (Atlantic City)
Private email to vpFREE Administrator:
------- Forwarded message follows -------
I just visited Trump Plaza today and I could not find any $.25 9/5
Double Joker poker left in the house. There were plenty of .50 and 1.00
as listed in the database, but it looks like the quarter machines have
all been downgraded to 8/6. Jacks or Better is still plentiful
including the 12 quarter progressive machines. There are still plenty
of machines also offering 9/7 DB and 9/6 DDB.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 08:34:11 -0000
From: "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Multple play variation/std dev.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deuceswild1000" <deuceswild1000@y...>
wrote:
Is calc dealt variance easier said than done?
Hmm, well you have to know the possible hands, their probabilities and
their average returns. 5 card stud tables are a start, for example:
http://wizardofodds.com/games/pokerodd.html
http://www.math.sfu.ca/~alspach/computations.html
> 1. Calculate total Variance of single line game
Ok, just to make sure we are communicating what is the formula. I
use Sum probability of hand *(payback of hand- expected value)^2
If
this is correct then your Google reference does answer this,but
does
not address co-variance, dealt variance, and draw variance. In
fact
most on line articles that I read don't even deal with video poker.
That is why I am looking for references.
Your formula for variance is correct. You should also find info on
covariance, which in the case of multiplays is the same as dealt
variance. There are some sites on Poker math, for example Alspach's
cited above.
> 2. Calculate dealt Variance of single line game
Ok, that is one of my question for which I asked for help and
hopefuly a reference.
see above
> 3. drawn Variance = total Variance - dealt Variance
Ok, but most research I have done uses variance and co-variance but
maybe this is where I need help. I definitely need help learning
to
calc co-variance
for multiplays, covariance=dealt variance
> 4. multiplay Variance = dealt Variance + (drawn Variance/N) where
> N=number of drawn hands per dealt hand
Ok this is a BIGGY. I do NOT find that formula in any reference
that I have found on line. Either that or you have transposed it
to
a form that I do not recognize. Reiterating, I am of the
impression that we can use variance and co-variance also. So if
possible would prefer to work with that.
N-play var = covar + ((1-play var - covar)/N)
Why is this formula correct? Off the top of my head I'm not sure I can
come up with a straightforward answer.
I'll give it a shot, but it's probably confusing:
It's similar to playing multihands in Blackjack. The dollar variance
is the dollar variance of the first hand plus the dollar covariance of
each additional hand (because of the definition of covariance), so,
here goes the algebra:
net var = var + (N-1)x covar
but we need to normalize at variance per bet so we can compare apples
to oranges, assuming the same base bet, for multiplays the total bet
is N times larger, so, divide by N:
N-play var = (1-play var)/N + covar x (N-1)/N
= ((1-play var) + covar x N - covar))/N
= covar + ((1-play var) - covar)/N
Then finally how does one turn this number into the answer to the
question that I asked for 4900 pushes of the deal button at five
lines per push at 5 credits per line at 5c per credit = $1.25 so
that I would have the same amount of money at risk as if I were
playing 4900 games of single line 25c at full coin of 5. You said
that I had done the calc correctly for single line. Now if I can
get this answer, I can make a direct comparison of these sets of
conditions.
std. dev. = sqrt( plays x variance ) bets
fpdw variance = 3 + 23/N
dollar std. dev. = std. dev. x (bet per play)
fpdw 25c single play at 4900 plays, $sd=sqrt(4900 x 26) x $1.25
fpdw 5c 5-play at 4900 plays, $sd=sqrt(4900 x 7.6) x $1.25
I figured if some one could tell me how to calc covariance, how to
use it to figure Total std dev (BY THIS I MEAN MULTIPLE LINES AT
MULTIPLE PUSHES OF THE DEAL BUTTON-----no I am not shouting, but
underling or italics are not possible on this forum). Then I could
taylor that info to other games and combinations and denominations.
Sure, why not?
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 10:27:55 -0000
From: "fvpwolf" <jimwolf@frugalgambler.biz>
Subject: Re: Help w/Frugal VP
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rbflylady" <RBerg9999@a...> wrote:
Under "options" I clicked on "Adapt Resolution to Screen" -- and the
problem is that now I can't get it back to normal size.
Go to 'Options->View Options'. Click "Don't Adapt Resolution".
'Options->Adapt Resolution to Screen' adapts only for the current game.
The other does it everytime you start the game.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 10:56:27 -0000
From: "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Standard Deviation of multiple line play
Dear NOTI,
In one of your earlier posts you say:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@y...> wrote:
> Variance is a function of number of lines, for deuces:
> Var=3.14+22.695/N, i.e. for single line Var=~26, for 5 line
Var=~8
On Jazbo's site, I read:
To compute the variance of an N-play version of a game from the
list, just add the base game variance to (N-1) times the covariance.
where he gives, for FPDW:
Covariance of Various Games
Game EV Variance Covariance Correl. Coeff.
FPDW 100.762% 25.842 3.140 12.151%
So, according to Jazbo, for FPDW:
Var=25.842+3.140*(N-1)
You are saying that the difference in these two formule is that
yours is "Var per bet". His is "dollar variance". Do I have that
correct?
Can you direct us to a reference that shows how one goes from one to
the other, that is, "Variance per bet" to "dollar variance", or
return.
The jargon used here and when one moves from on prob & stat paper to
the next is not at all consistent. Also. Almost no papers I have
read deal with VP. Thus, my difficulty, untrained as I am, to
follow a lot of the points being made.
Thanks.
..bl
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:44:38 -0000
From: "deuceswild1000" <deuceswild1000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Standard Deviation of multiple line play
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@y...>
wrote:
Dear NOTI,
In one of your earlier posts you say:
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
> <nightoftheiguana2000@y...> wrote:
> > Variance is a function of number of lines, for deuces:
> > Var=3.14+22.695/N, i.e. for single line Var=~26, for 5 line
Var=~8On Jazbo's site, I read:
To compute the variance of an N-play version of a game from the
list, just add the base game variance to (N-1) times the
covariance.
where he gives, for FPDW:
Covariance of Various Games
Game EV Variance Covariance Correl. Coeff.FPDW 100.762% 25.842 3.140 12.151%
So, according to Jazbo, for FPDW:
Var=25.842+3.140*(N-1)
I come to the same conclusion regarding the computation. It
appears as though WoO also has the same calculation.
You are saying that the difference in these two formule is that
yours is "Var per bet". His is "dollar variance". Do I have that
correct?
Bolh appear to multiply this number by the sqrt of the total number
of hands then times the dollars bet per bet to turn this into std
dev in dollars.
Can you direct us to a reference that shows how one goes from one
to
the other, that is, "Variance per bet" to "dollar variance", or
return.
Yes please
The jargon used here and when one moves from on prob & stat paper
to
the next is not at all consistent. Also. Almost no papers I have
read deal with VP. Thus, my difficulty, untrained as I am, to
follow a lot of the points being made.
I don't know if I put that in any of my post or not. I wrote it
once--may have lost it when I clicked on wrong bubble. I had to re-
read it because I thought I had written it:-)
Thanks.
..bl
Thanks for concluding all of the same things I did also. If we are
both wrong, at least we are not alone. 
Misery loves company
DWK
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 13
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:01:18 -0000
From: "kbrandon75407" <kbrandon@peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Frugal Gambler, 2nd edition
Actually, Amazon.com DOES NOT have the 2nd edition that I can find.
Besides, my question was whether it was available LOCALLY i.e. in a
store I could go to today & buy it.
Thanks,
Kevin
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <rnkvotava@c...> wrote:
Amazon.com has it.
Karen V.
>
> From: "kbrandon75407" <kbrandon@p...>
> Date: 2005/06/02 Thu AM 11:54:39 PDT
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [vpFREE] Frugal Gambler, 2nd edition
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 14
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:10:51 -0000
From: "al55442" <al55442@cox.net>
Subject: Re: SantaFe 1$ FPDW party over
Here is the full pay table
Super Bonus Deuces 100.13%
Royal Flush 4000
4 Deuces + Ace 2000
4 Deuces 1000
5 of a kind/w 1 deuce 800
Royal w/deuce 125
5 of a kind 75
Straight Flush 50
4 of a Kind 20
Full House 15
Flush 10
Straight 10
3 of a Kind 5
Double Bonus Poker + :
Royal Flush 4000
Straight Flush 250
4 Aces touching 2000
4 Aces 800
Four 2, 3, or 4 touching 800
Four 2, 3, or 4 400
4 others 200
Full House 45
Flush 30
Straight 20
3 of a Kind 15
2 Pair 5
1 Pair 5
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Elliott L. Shapiro <elliotts2345@e...>
wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 17:40:58 -0000, you wrote:
>The games were still there this morning. There are 12 uprights
>that replaced the 10 slants.
>
>Other games on the bank:
>
>Super Bonus Deuces Wild:
>
>1-2-2-3-4-10-15-25-160-200-400-800...100.13%
>
Every quad pays at least 800 coins??? Is that correct?>Double Bonus Poker + :
>
>1-1-3-5-6-9-40-80-160-160-400-50-800... ???
>
>
>
>Lets hope they keep them all for a while.
>
>
>
>--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "al55442" <al55442@c...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> ER for the OEJ = 1-1-2-3-5-15-50-75-200-800 ... 100.28%
>> Will check them again this morning.
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE" <vpFREE@C...> wrote:
>> > On 1 Jun 2005 at 15:45, al55442 wrote:
>> >
>> > > SantaFe on last Thursday installed in place of the MDMG FPDW
>> > > between coffee shop and bowling alley entrance, 25c,50c,1$
>> > > FPDW,FPDB,FPDDB,FP ONE EYED JACKS,FPLD. The local
>> > > pros got hold of this and hammered the the games playing
>> > > them around the clock Friday to yesterday.
>> >
>> > > The games have been changed to only the 25c denom so we can
>> > > consider this a upgrade to the SantaFe inventory.
>> >
>> > Anyone know if all of the above mentioned games
>> > are still there at the 25c level, and what the paytable
>> > or ER is for the OEJ, if they remain?
>> >
>> > vpFREE Administrator
>
>
>
>
>
>vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 15
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:12:43 -0000
From: "kbrandon75407" <kbrandon@peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Frugal Gambler, 2nd edition
Thanks Jean. I guess I'll have to do that then. Slow would be an
understatement. I could understand a bookstore not having it in
stock right away, but what shocked me was they didn't even know the
new edition existed. Oh well.
Thanks again,
Kevin
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@f...>
wrote:
<<Does anyone know if this book is available at a store (outside of
Vegas)? I want to get the most current version, but can only find
the
1st edition for sale locally. In fact, Barnes & Noble doesn't even
show a 2nd edition as being available. Didn't it come out a while
ago?
I would just order it, but I leave for Vegas in 2 weeks & want to
make
sure I have it before then.
You could order it Priority Mail at my Web site and I would send
it out
immediately and you should get it in 2 or 3 days. The book has
been out for
several weeks - but it takes a long time for it to get into most
bookstores.
Book distribution system is VERY slow!!!!
<<Also, what are the differences in the two editions? Just more
current
info or are there new chapters, etc.?>>
The second edition has just been updated - no new chapters.
________________________________________
Jean $ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
for VP software and strategy cards.
NEW - Blackjack Strategy Cards +
Updated Second Edition of
"The Frugal Gambler."
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 16
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:17:03 -0700
From: "Rich & Karen Votava" <rnkvotava@charter.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Frugal Gambler, 2nd edition
Well, if you can't find it locally, Amazon.com does have it as I saw it there yesterday.
Karen V.
----- Original Message -----
From: kbrandon75407
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 7:01 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Frugal Gambler, 2nd edition
Actually, Amazon.com DOES NOT have the 2nd edition that I can find.
Besides, my question was whether it was available LOCALLY i.e. in a
store I could go to today & buy it.
Thanks,
Kevin
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <rnkvotava@c...> wrote:
> Amazon.com has it.
>
> Karen V.
> >
> > From: "kbrandon75407" <kbrandon@p...>
> > Date: 2005/06/02 Thu AM 11:54:39 PDT
> > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [vpFREE] Frugal Gambler, 2nd edition
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
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Message: 17
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:31:46 -0000
From: "mufflerr" <mufflerr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Older IGT 25c machines versus the new style machines...
Thanks Skip,
Your explanation explains part of it.
I think another reason may be that on the older style machines, it
appears that all 5 draw cards are pre-set before drawing, unlike on
the newer machines, where are draw cards are constantly being changed
due to randomization.
Take Care,
The Muff
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Skip Hughes <skiphughes@e...> wrote:
mufflerr wrote:
> Call me crazy, but it seems to me that the older style IGT 25c VP
> machines (where the coins spit out) overall turn up better hands
in the
> short run, and are more cyclic, when compared to the newer style
VP
> machines.
Mufflerr;
You're not crazy. There is a simnple explanation of the
difference in
(perceived) hot streaks between the old coin-only machines and the
new ones.
It's all a matter of the speed of the game.
On the newer machines hands can be played at least 5 times as
fast (in the
case of multiplays make that 20 times as fast) as the old coin-only
machines.
When we used to hit several good hands in a short time, with all
the coins
falling into the bin, it was a very noticeable and enjoyable event.
Just the
fact of the coins dropping slowed things down and extended the
clock time of the
hot streak.
Often after hitting a bunch of good hands and having the coin bin
fill up, we
would just fill up buckets and go cash out our hot streak (didn't
we). But we
might have only played a couple hundred hands over a period of an
hour or an
hour and a half.
Even if you are slow player, you are playing much faster with the
new machines.
I have hit a royal on a quarter machine and not even noticed it
right away.
Smaller jackpots rack up points which may decline quickly. All of
this tends to
smooth out the bumps over the same amount of time, even though hand
by hand, the
fluctuation remains the same.
--
Thanks!
Skip
http://www.vpinsider.com
--
Thanks!
Skip
http://www.vpinsider.com
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Message: 18
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:54:03 -0500
From: "Skip Mogab" <riverboat_man@msn.com>
Subject: Wynn's 34 day results.
Wynn Las Vegas Reports 34-Day Results
All Associated Press NewsLAS VEGAS (AP) - Wynn Las Vegas, the city's most
expensive hotel-casino, generated gambling revenue of $64.3 million in its
first 34 days of operation, exceeding some analysts' expectations.
Gaming revenue at the $2.7 billion resort came close to a full-quarter
estimate of $68.2 million, Steven Kent, a gambling analyst with Goldman
Sachs, said in an investor's note Thursday. Gross non-gambling revenue for
the 34 days, which includes $15.4 million of complimentary revenues, was in
excess of $76.6 million.
Skip in Iowa
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Message: 19
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:57:22 -0700
From: "vpFREE" <vpFREE@Cox.net>
Subject: LVA Question of the Day
Q: I have a friend who I believe may have a gambling
problem. What resources are there to help?
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/QofDay.cfm
<a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/QofDay.cfm">
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/QofDay.cfm</a>
NOTE: Access to the Question of the Day expires
after the current day for non LVA members.
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Message: 20
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 08:21:35 -0700
From: "vpFREE" <vpFREE@Cox.net>
Subject: New Jean Scott Frugal Fridays Column
Following My Own Advice
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/b6srg">
http://tinyurl.com/b6srg</a>
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Message: 21
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 16:43:43 -0000
From: "golfergeek2001" <golfergeek2001@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Help w/Frugal VP
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "fvpwolf" <jimwolf@f...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rbflylady" <RBerg9999@a...> wrote:
> Under "options" I clicked on "Adapt Resolution to Screen" -- and
the
> problem is that now I can't get it back to normal size.
Go to 'Options->View Options'. Click "Don't Adapt Resolution".
'Options->Adapt Resolution to Screen' adapts only for the current
game.
The other does it everytime you start the game.
Jim
I've had that same situation happen to me too. If you can get to
options, that is the move, click "Don't Adapt Resolution". What
I've done is close the window instead of exiting the program and the
window closes and goes to your desktop and the frugal icon is not
diplayed along with the start button. I'm guessing because of the
adaptation. Basicly you can't get into or out of frugal. The only
way I can get it work is to "Control/Alt/delete" and end the task.
At that point frugal will ask you to "Save the Session" and you can
exit and start over. I hope this this will help if you were having
the same problem.
The Iowa Geek
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Message: 22
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:54:03 EDT
From: RBerg9999@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Help w/Frugal VP
Thanks! That worked and it is now back to normal size!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 23
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 16:37:58 GMT
From: " " <steveinnv@webtv.net>
Subject: Re: RNG Operation
The controversy regarding the rng and whether the video poker machine deals 5 or 10 cards goes back over 20 years. I heard that someone went to the manufacturer and was told it was a two step process. I do not know the details but when I asked I was told no information could be released in order to protect the intergity of the game. Of course misinformation could be released to protect it also, which I think has been done alot.
Since then it seems the sources for information about this are slot mechanics, who are not trusted company employees with any inside information on the actual design of the machine. When an error is made in playing a hand on any video poker machine it almost always involves not holding a card or holding the wrong cards. In these cases the machine can be opened and the drawn cards can be displayed.
In very rare cases the machine will hold a card by itself. In these situations the card that would have been drawn cannot be known (because it was not generated). One time a slot mechanic even said the drawn card was there in the machine but there was no way to find out what it was because the machine would not let anyone see it! This seems strange since the machine will let you see it in the other situations.
In my opinion this is very strong evidence that there is a two step process in dealing the cards. Steveinnv
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Message: 24
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:58:10 -0400
From: John Thomas <jfthomas3@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Re: RNG Operation
[snip]
In my opinion this is very strong evidence that there is
a two step process in dealing the cards. Steveinnv
OK. And assuming, for the sake of argument, that this is true -- now
please tell me how this possibly can affect the player.
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Message: 25
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 17:13:48 -0000
From: "golfergeek2001" <golfergeek2001@yahoo.com>
Subject: Got a Question--Wining at short pay
I play at the indian casinos when I can't get to Vegas and all of
their pay table are very short. My question is: Is it better to play
a high varience game like DDB at 8/5(96.79) or play jacks or better at
8/6(98.39) and have a chance to walk away a winner after 5-6 hours
playing single line? Assuming that we are not going to hit the royal
flush, to make up that 4-5% edge your are going to need to hit a big
hand. I know you'll never win at these games over term, but for these
4ooo hands I can never seem to hit enough quads to make up the edge
playing 8/6 jacks or better. I always make up the differance in 8/5
DDB if I hit any of the aces. How are you going to WIN? Be luckier at
jacks or better or hit one set of aces at DDB? Any Interesting short
pay ideas to overcome??
The Iowa Geek
Be Lucky
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