vpFREE2 Forums

different hands displayed on same machine at different denominations

#1

i stopped by the isle casino at pompano park in florida this week. i don't recommend it; as far as i can tell, the pay tables are pretty awful on every machine, even at the $1, $2 and $5 denominations.

but i did play a little bit (when in rome... ) and i was fortunate to hit a 4K jackpot very soon after arriving. (i was playing $5 double double bonus and held two 2's and received the other two and a 3 on the draw.)

they do things a little differently there. when a jackpot is hit, they immediately reset the machine (presumably so you can continue playing) and they give you a receipt which you then exchange for your cash (or your check) when they bring you your handpay.

as in many casinos these days, the slot attendant asked me to "play off" the hand. i said sure, but asked - as i sometimes do - if i could change the denomination. i'd rather play it off at $1 ($5 a hand), i explained, than $5 ($25 a hand). he sad that would be fine.. his only concern was that the winning hand be removed from the screen.

when i went back in and selected the $1 denomination and the double double bonus game, the same game i had been playing, a completely different hand was on the screen... not my winning hand at all. my last hand could be seen under the $2 denomination for double double bonus and could also still be seen under the $5 denomination, where i had played it.

both the slot attendant and i were surprised and confused by this. why would there be different hands at different denominations?

did this machine have one RNG for the $1 denomination and another that handled both the $2 and $5 denominations?

is that sort of thing common?

i've never seen this happen... and i often, when asked to "play off" a hand, choose to change the denomination.

have you encountered this before?

#2

What I have generally observed is that the last hand display is specific for each paytable. For example if the 25c/$1 denomination paytable is 8/5 and the $2/$5 paytable is 9/6 you will see one identical last hand on the 25c/$1 game and a different one for the $2/$5 paytable. I think this may have something to do with the fact that a 45 coin win would appear out of place one a 8:1 paytable.

On the other hand I have seen many a baffled slot tech trying to figure out a large payout after a successful double up, especially a resulting W-2G jackpot!

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ukstages" <takeme2london@...> wrote:

when i went back in and selected the $1 denomination and the double double bonus game, the same game i had been playing, a completely different hand was on the screen... not my winning hand at all. my last hand could be seen under the $2 denomination for double double bonus and could also still be seen under the $5 denomination, where i had played it.

both the slot attendant and i were surprised and confused by this. why would there be different hands at different denominations?

did this machine have one RNG for the $1 denomination and another that handled both the $2 and $5 denominations?

is that sort of thing common?

i've never seen this happen... and i often, when asked to "play off" a hand, choose to change the denomination.

have you encountered this before?

#3

vegasvpplayer is correct.

I can confirm this from my home GameKing machine. The same hand will
appear for the same game with the exact same paytable at different
denominations. Also you can not have two different paytables with the
same game at the same denomination. So you can not have 9/6 JOB and 9/5
JOB at the same denomination. But you can have things like deuces,
double deuces, and loose deuces all at the same denomination.

So I believe the RNG is the same for a particular game and paytable
without regard for the denomination.

Dennis
vp-connoisseur

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ukstages" <takeme2london@...> wrote:

when i went back in and selected the $1 denomination and the double double bonus game, the same game i had been playing, a completely different hand was on the screen... not my winning hand at all. my last hand could be seen under the $2 denomination for double double bonus and could also still be seen under the $5 denomination, where i had played it.

both the slot attendant and i were surprised and confused by this. why would there be different hands at different denominations?

did this machine have one RNG for the $1 denomination and another that handled both the $2 and $5 denominations?

is that sort of thing common?

i've never seen this happen... and i often, when asked to "play off" a hand, choose to change the denomination.

have you encountered this before?

What I have generally observed is that the last hand display is specific for each paytable. For example if the 25c/$1 denomination paytable is 8/5 and the $2/$5 paytable is 9/6 you will see one identical last hand on the 25c/$1 game and a different one for the $2/$5 paytable. I think this may have something to do with the fact that a 45 coin win would appear out of place one a 8:1 paytable.

On the other hand I have seen many a baffled slot tech trying to figure out a large payout after a successful double up, especially a resulting W-2G jackpot!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

Just to correct some of the follow-ups:

On IGT Game King machines each paytable has 1 meter to record the history of that game. This is true regardless of how many denominations that particular paytable is assigned to, so the casino has no way of separating results from $2 or $5 play if they both have the same paytable.

So it retains the hand history for each paytable as part of the meter. So if you change denominations and there is a different paytable you will see different "last" hands. This is clearly what happened to you.

However, none of this has anything to do with the RNG. Each game is a program in the machine. The RNG is another program which a game can talk to when it needs information from the RNG as to which card to hold. The RNG does not know about cards, it knows about numbers between 1 and 52 (53, 54, 55, 56 or 57 for some Joker games). The game program then converts that number to a card, makes sure it hasn't already used that card during the current hand, and displays the card.

But there is only 1 RNG program running in the machine (OK, technically a machine with a separate bonus program might have a second RNG running for the bonus program but it is not necessary.)

Hope this resolves some confusion. Again, many different VP games in a machine can make calls to 1 RNG program. (And, yes programmers I have simplified some of this for the non-programmers since it is unimportant)

Bill

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At 11:23 AM 7/1/2009, you wrote:

both the slot attendant and i were surprised and confused by this. why would there be different hands at different denominations?

did this machine have one RNG for the $1 denomination and another that handled both the $2 and $5 denominations?

is that sort of thing common?

i've never seen this happen... and i often, when asked to "play off" a hand, choose to change the denomination.

have you encountered this before?

#5

you are absolutely correct. i went back there today (the isle at pompano park) and can confirm that the $1 pay table is 8/5 (egad!) and the $2 and $5 denomination share the same pay table: 9/5.

this explains why i saw my winning hand under the $2 denomination and the $5 denomination, but not the $1 denomination. it also explains why i've never encountered this before... all the places i usually play have always had the same pay table at all three denominations.

by the way, as best i can tell, most of the 25 cent pay tables at this casino seem to be 7/5 (yikes!).

funny, it doesn't look like a cruise ship.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vegasvpplayer" <vegasvpplayer@...> wrote:

What I have generally observed is that the last hand display is specific for each paytable. For example if the 25c/$1 denomination paytable is 8/5 and the $2/$5 paytable is 9/6 you will see one identical last hand on the 25c/$1 game and a different one for the $2/$5 paytable. I think this may have something to do with the fact that a 45 coin win would appear out of place one a 8:1 paytable.