vpFREE2 Forums

deuces wild variant: power deuces

#1

Hi, unlike conventional deuces wild, in the deuces wild variant "power deuces", wild royals are broken out into three different categories:
one-deuce,two-deuce, and three-deuce wild royals. Each is paid out differently (http://www.gametech-inc.com/gaming-pokers-powerdeuces.html). Although calculating the probability of getting one of these on the draw is simple enough*, I am having trouble calculating the EV for this game since of course the draws must all be taken into account(the video poker software choices I am familiar with don't all the addition of paylines for wild games). Any help on calculation the EV would be appreciated.

Thanks a lot.
Pinball1932

* For example the chance of getting a 3-deuce wild royal on the draw is just (4*4*3*2*5*4)/(52*51*50*49*48).

#2

you need to post some paytables to do the analysis. I can give it a try if you do. TomSki

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pinball1932" <pinball1932@...> wrote:

Hi, unlike conventional deuces wild, in the deuces wild variant "power deuces", wild royals are broken out into three different categories:
one-deuce,two-deuce, and three-deuce wild royals. Each is paid out differently (http://www.gametech-inc.com/gaming-pokers-powerdeuces.html). Although calculating the probability of getting one of these on the draw is simple enough*, I am having trouble calculating the EV for this game since of course the draws must all be taken into account(the video poker software choices I am familiar with don't all the addition of paylines for wild games). Any help on calculation the EV would be appreciated.

Thanks a lot.
Pinball1932

* For example the chance of getting a 3-deuce wild royal on the draw is just (4*4*3*2*5*4)/(52*51*50*49*48).

#3

Hi Tom, here are the payouts for 5 coins:

Natural Royal:4000
four deuces:500
Royal Flush with 1 deuces:400
Royal Flush with 2 deuces:200
Royal Flush with 3 deuces:100
Five of a Kind:75
Straight Flush:40
Four of a Kind:20
Full House:15
Straight:10
Flush:10
3 of a Kind:5
Any Other Hand Than Above:-5

Best Regards and Thanks very much, Pinball1932

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ThomasS" <tomskilv@...> wrote:

you need to post some paytables to do the analysis. I can give it a try if you do. TomSki

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pinball1932" <pinball1932@> wrote:
>
> Hi, unlike conventional deuces wild, in the deuces wild variant "power deuces", wild royals are broken out into three different categories:
> one-deuce,two-deuce, and three-deuce wild royals. Each is paid out differently (http://www.gametech-inc.com/gaming-pokers-powerdeuces.html). Although calculating the probability of getting one of these on the draw is simple enough*, I am having trouble calculating the EV for this game since of course the draws must all be taken into account(the video poker software choices I am familiar with don't all the addition of paylines for wild games). Any help on calculation the EV would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks a lot.
> Pinball1932
>
> * For example the chance of getting a 3-deuce wild royal on the draw is just (4*4*3*2*5*4)/(52*51*50*49*48).
>

#4

What does -5 mean for any other hand?

···

On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 4:09 PM, pinball1932 <pinball1932@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Tom, here are the payouts for 5 coins:

Natural Royal:4000
four deuces:500
Royal Flush with 1 deuces:400
Royal Flush with 2 deuces:200
Royal Flush with 3 deuces:100
Five of a Kind:75
Straight Flush:40
Four of a Kind:20
Full House:15
Straight:10
Flush:10
3 of a Kind:5
Any Other Hand Than Above:-5

#5

Pinball,

  Based on the link that you posted
http://www.gametech-inc.com/gaming-pokers-powerdeuces.html 5-coin-in pays
2000 coins for a Royal.

···

_____

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
pinball1932
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 5:09 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: deuces wild variant: power deuces

Hi Tom, here are the payouts for 5 coins:

Natural Royal:4000
four deuces:500
Royal Flush with 1 deuces:400
Royal Flush with 2 deuces:200
Royal Flush with 3 deuces:100
Five of a Kind:75
Straight Flush:40
Four of a Kind:20
Full House:15
Straight:10
Flush:10
3 of a Kind:5
Any Other Hand Than Above:-5

Best Regards and Thanks very much, Pinball1932
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> , "ThomasS"
<tomskilv@...> wrote:

you need to post some paytables to do the analysis. I can give it a try if

you do. TomSki

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> ,

"pinball1932" <pinball1932@> wrote:

>
> Hi, unlike conventional deuces wild, in the deuces wild variant "power

deuces", wild royals are broken out into three different categories:

> one-deuce,two-deuce, and three-deuce wild royals. Each is paid out

differently (http://www.gametech-inc.com/gaming-pokers-powerdeuces.html).
Although calculating the probability of getting one of these on the draw is
simple enough*, I am having trouble calculating the EV for this game since
of course the draws must all be taken into account(the video poker software
choices I am familiar with don't all the addition of paylines for wild
games). Any help on calculation the EV would be appreciated.

>
> Thanks a lot.
> Pinball1932
>
> * For example the chance of getting a 3-deuce wild royal on the draw is

just (4*4*3*2*5*4)/(52*51*50*49*48).

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#6

he meant zero as in a loser.

···

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
Jason Pawloski
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 5:12 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: deuces wild variant: power deuces

What does -5 mean for any other hand?

On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 4:09 PM, pinball1932 <pinball1932@yahoo.com <mailto:pinball1932%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

Hi Tom, here are the payouts for 5 coins:

Natural Royal:4000
four deuces:500
Royal Flush with 1 deuces:400
Royal Flush with 2 deuces:200
Royal Flush with 3 deuces:100
Five of a Kind:75
Straight Flush:40
Four of a Kind:20
Full House:15
Straight:10
Flush:10
3 of a Kind:5
Any Other Hand Than Above:-5

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

That is what I saw too. I suspect this is a very weak paytable.

···

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
5-card
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 6:31 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: deuces wild variant: power deuces

Pinball,

Based on the link that you posted
http://www.gametech-inc.com/gaming-pokers-powerdeuces.html 5-coin-in pays
2000 coins for a Royal.

_____

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vpF…@…com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of
pinball1932
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 5:09 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: deuces wild variant: power deuces

Hi Tom, here are the payouts for 5 coins:

Natural Royal:4000
four deuces:500
Royal Flush with 1 deuces:400
Royal Flush with 2 deuces:200
Royal Flush with 3 deuces:100
Five of a Kind:75
Straight Flush:40
Four of a Kind:20
Full House:15
Straight:10
Flush:10
3 of a Kind:5
Any Other Hand Than Above:-5

Best Regards and Thanks very much, Pinball1932
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> , "ThomasS"
<tomskilv@...> wrote:

you need to post some paytables to do the analysis. I can give it a try if

you do. TomSki

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"pinball1932" <pinball1932@> wrote:

>
> Hi, unlike conventional deuces wild, in the deuces wild variant "power

deuces", wild royals are broken out into three different categories:

> one-deuce,two-deuce, and three-deuce wild royals. Each is paid out

differently (http://www.gametech-inc.com/gaming-pokers-powerdeuces.html).
Although calculating the probability of getting one of these on the draw is
simple enough*, I am having trouble calculating the EV for this game since
of course the draws must all be taken into account(the video poker software
choices I am familiar with don't all the addition of paylines for wild
games). Any help on calculation the EV would be appreciated.

>
> Thanks a lot.
> Pinball1932
>
> * For example the chance of getting a 3-deuce wild royal on the draw is

just (4*4*3*2*5*4)/(52*51*50*49*48).

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

Hi guys, thanks for the comments. I meant "0 coins returned" for any other hand (-5 to your bank roll). The game is positive if the one-deuce Royal occurs often enough with optimal discard strategy (Tom has very generously offered to work this out). I agree that it probably doesn't occur often enough -- but I don't wish to leave this up to intuition . . .

Cheers, pinball1932

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Howard W. Stern" <howard.w.stern@...> wrote:

That is what I saw too. I suspect this is a very weak paytable.

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
5-card
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 6:31 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: deuces wild variant: power deuces

Pinball,

Based on the link that you posted
http://www.gametech-inc.com/gaming-pokers-powerdeuces.html 5-coin-in pays
2000 coins for a Royal.

_____

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vpF…@…com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of
pinball1932
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 5:09 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: deuces wild variant: power deuces

Hi Tom, here are the payouts for 5 coins:

Natural Royal:4000
four deuces:500
Royal Flush with 1 deuces:400
Royal Flush with 2 deuces:200
Royal Flush with 3 deuces:100
Five of a Kind:75
Straight Flush:40
Four of a Kind:20
Full House:15
Straight:10
Flush:10
3 of a Kind:5
Any Other Hand Than Above:-5

Best Regards and Thanks very much, Pinball1932
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> , "ThomasS"
<tomskilv@> wrote:
>
> you need to post some paytables to do the analysis. I can give it a try if
you do. TomSki
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"pinball1932" <pinball1932@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, unlike conventional deuces wild, in the deuces wild variant "power
deuces", wild royals are broken out into three different categories:
> > one-deuce,two-deuce, and three-deuce wild royals. Each is paid out
differently (http://www.gametech-inc.com/gaming-pokers-powerdeuces.html).
Although calculating the probability of getting one of these on the draw is
simple enough*, I am having trouble calculating the EV for this game since
of course the draws must all be taken into account(the video poker software
choices I am familiar with don't all the addition of paylines for wild
games). Any help on calculation the EV would be appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks a lot.
> > Pinball1932
> >
> > * For example the chance of getting a 3-deuce wild royal on the draw is
just (4*4*3*2*5*4)/(52*51*50*49*48).
> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#9

I should have written "if the one-deuce and two-deuce wild royals occur often enough".

Apologies.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pinball1932" <pinball1932@...> wrote:

Hi guys, thanks for the comments. I meant "0 coins returned" for any other hand (-5 to your bank roll). The game is positive if the one-deuce Royal occurs often enough with optimal discard strategy (Tom has very generously offered to work this out). I agree that it probably doesn't occur often enough -- but I don't wish to leave this up to intuition . . .

Cheers, pinball1932

— In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Howard W. Stern" <howard.w.stern@> wrote:
>
> That is what I saw too. I suspect this is a very weak paytable.
>
>
>
> From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
> 5-card
> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 6:31 PM
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: deuces wild variant: power deuces
>
>
>
>
>
> Pinball,
>
> Based on the link that you posted
> http://www.gametech-inc.com/gaming-pokers-powerdeuces.html 5-coin-in pays
> 2000 coins for a Royal.
>
> _____
>
> From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vpF…@…com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
> Of
> pinball1932
> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 5:09 PM
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: deuces wild variant: power deuces
>
> Hi Tom, here are the payouts for 5 coins:
>
> Natural Royal:4000
> four deuces:500
> Royal Flush with 1 deuces:400
> Royal Flush with 2 deuces:200
> Royal Flush with 3 deuces:100
> Five of a Kind:75
> Straight Flush:40
> Four of a Kind:20
> Full House:15
> Straight:10
> Flush:10
> 3 of a Kind:5
> Any Other Hand Than Above:-5
>
> Best Regards and Thanks very much, Pinball1932
> — In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> , "ThomasS"
> <tomskilv@> wrote:
> >
> > you need to post some paytables to do the analysis. I can give it a try if
> you do. TomSki
> >
> > — In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "pinball1932" <pinball1932@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi, unlike conventional deuces wild, in the deuces wild variant "power
> deuces", wild royals are broken out into three different categories:
> > > one-deuce,two-deuce, and three-deuce wild royals. Each is paid out
> differently (http://www.gametech-inc.com/gaming-pokers-powerdeuces.html).
> Although calculating the probability of getting one of these on the draw is
> simple enough*, I am having trouble calculating the EV for this game since
> of course the draws must all be taken into account(the video poker software
> choices I am familiar with don't all the addition of paylines for wild
> games). Any help on calculation the EV would be appreciated.
> > >
> > > Thanks a lot.
> > > Pinball1932
> > >
> > > * For example the chance of getting a 3-deuce wild royal on the draw is
> just (4*4*3*2*5*4)/(52*51*50*49*48).
> > >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

#10

The paytable below returns 95.51%. If the royal pays 2000, then the pay drops to 94.49%.
If natural royal pays 4000, you make royal with 1 deuce once every 2349 hands.
with 2 deuces, once every 944 hands.
with 3 deuces, once every 1735 hands.
any wild royal once every 485 hands.

TomSki

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pinball1932" <pinball1932@...> wrote:

Hi Tom, here are the payouts for 5 coins:

Natural Royal:4000
four deuces:500
Royal Flush with 1 deuces:400
Royal Flush with 2 deuces:200
Royal Flush with 3 deuces:100
Five of a Kind:75
Straight Flush:40
Four of a Kind:20
Full House:15
Straight:10
Flush:10
3 of a Kind:5
Any Other Hand Than Above:-5

#11

Hi Tom, thanks very much for calculating this as well as doing it so quickly.

Best Regards, pinball1932.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ThomasS" <tomskilv@...> wrote:

The paytable below returns 95.51%. If the royal pays 2000, then the pay drops to 94.49%.
If natural royal pays 4000, you make royal with 1 deuce once every 2349 hands.
with 2 deuces, once every 944 hands.
with 3 deuces, once every 1735 hands.
any wild royal once every 485 hands.

TomSki

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pinball1932" <pinball1932@> wrote:
>
> Hi Tom, here are the payouts for 5 coins:
>
> Natural Royal:4000
> four deuces:500
> Royal Flush with 1 deuces:400
> Royal Flush with 2 deuces:200
> Royal Flush with 3 deuces:100
> Five of a Kind:75
> Straight Flush:40
> Four of a Kind:20
> Full House:15
> Straight:10
> Flush:10
> 3 of a Kind:5
> Any Other Hand Than Above:-5