I am using Win Poker to learn the strategy for 25/13/4/3/3 Deuces Wild
Bonus Poker. Two hands repeatedly confuse me. Win Poker says I should
hold a suited A-10 with no penalty cards, but says holding suited A-Q
sans penalties is an error. I am at a loss as to why this should be
so. Why would holding the larger gapped A-10 be correct, but not the
smaller gapped A-Q?
Deuces Wild Bonus Poker Question
Brian Oarr wrote:
I am using Win Poker to learn the strategy for 25/13/4/3/3 Deuces
Wild Bonus Poker. Two hands repeatedly confuse me. Win Poker says I
should hold a suited A-10 with no penalty cards, but says holding
suited A-Q sans penalties is an error. I am at a loss as to why this
should be so. Why would holding the larger gapped A-10 be correct,
but not the smaller gapped A-Q?
I'm not taking the time to review this closely, however, a fair
presumption has to do with the number of straights that are availble
should you discard the hold.
A greater number of straights won't be possible on the draw if you
discard a 10 vs. discard of a Q. Consequently, the value of
discarding A-10 will leave play results that has a smaller EV than
discarding A-Q. (Conversely, hold A-10 > hold A-Q).
Given what you've observed, it can be assumed that there is a
predominance in ER as follows:
A-10 > toss 5 > A-Q
- Harry
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...>
wrote:
Brian Oarr wrote:
> I am using Win Poker to learn the strategy for 25/13/4/3/3 Deuces
> Wild Bonus Poker. Two hands repeatedly confuse me. Win Poker
says I
> should hold a suited A-10 with no penalty cards, but says holding
> suited A-Q sans penalties is an error. I am at a loss as to why
this
> should be so. Why would holding the larger gapped A-10 be
correct,
> but not the smaller gapped A-Q?
I'm not taking the time to review this closely, however, a fair
presumption has to do with the number of straights that are availble
should you discard the hold.A greater number of straights won't be possible on the draw if you
discard a 10 vs. discard of a Q. Consequently, the value of
discarding A-10 will leave play results that has a smaller EV than
discarding A-Q. (Conversely, hold A-10 > hold A-Q).Given what you've observed, it can be assumed that there is a
predominance in ER as follows:A-10 > toss 5 > A-Q
- Harry
Not bad, Harry. The 10 is the ironic key card. When you hold it and
might discard it, the number of possible 5 card straights is less
than, if you hold A-Q and discard it. Thus it isn't that A-10 suited
has a higher ER than A-Q suited(they are equal), but rather that the
5 card redraw is of higher value for A-Q, than for A-10. Truly one of
the most esoteric penalty card situations I've ever come across.
Effectively the 10 is a penalty card against itself, so keep it. My
hat's off to you for sensing that one intuitively. It had me stumped.
What's the expected return on that game?
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...>
wrote:
Brian Oarr wrote:
> I am using Win Poker to learn the strategy for 25/13/4/3/3
Deuces
> Wild Bonus Poker. Two hands repeatedly confuse me. Win Poker
says I
> should hold a suited A-10 with no penalty cards, but says
holding
> suited A-Q sans penalties is an error. I am at a loss as to why
this
> should be so. Why would holding the larger gapped A-10 be
correct,
> but not the smaller gapped A-Q?
I'm not taking the time to review this closely, however, a fair
presumption has to do with the number of straights that are
availble
···
should you discard the hold.
A greater number of straights won't be possible on the draw if you
discard a 10 vs. discard of a Q. Consequently, the value of
discarding A-10 will leave play results that has a smaller EV than
discarding A-Q. (Conversely, hold A-10 > hold A-Q).Given what you've observed, it can be assumed that there is a
predominance in ER as follows:A-10 > toss 5 > A-Q
- Harry
What's the expected return on that game?
99.82% according to Win Poker. I find it to be a useful game for
playing at Coast Casinos on double points days.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@>
wrote:
>
> Brian Oarr wrote:
> > I am using Win Poker to learn the strategy for 25/13/4/3/3
Deuces
> > Wild Bonus Poker. Two hands repeatedly confuse me. Win Poker
says I
> > should hold a suited A-10 with no penalty cards, but says
holding
> > suited A-Q sans penalties is an error. I am at a loss as to
why
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "HOHOHONDO" <hohohondo@...> wrote:
this
> > should be so. Why would holding the larger gapped A-10 be
correct,
> > but not the smaller gapped A-Q?
>
> I'm not taking the time to review this closely, however, a fair
> presumption has to do with the number of straights that are
availble
> should you discard the hold.
>
> A greater number of straights won't be possible on the draw if you
> discard a 10 vs. discard of a Q. Consequently, the value of
> discarding A-10 will leave play results that has a smaller EV than
> discarding A-Q. (Conversely, hold A-10 > hold A-Q).
>
> Given what you've observed, it can be assumed that there is a
> predominance in ER as follows:
>
> A-10 > toss 5 > A-Q
>
> - Harry
>
I checked the VP free pay tables and VPW and boths report the game at
98.8%. Not a great game...
>
> What's the expected return on that game?
>
> 99.82% according to Win Poker. I find it to be a useful game for
playing at Coast Casinos on double points days.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Brian Oarr wrote:
> > > I am using Win Poker to learn the strategy for 25/13/4/3/3
> Deuces
> > > Wild Bonus Poker. Two hands repeatedly confuse me. Win
Poker
> says I
> > > should hold a suited A-10 with no penalty cards, but says
> holding
> > > suited A-Q sans penalties is an error. I am at a loss as to
why
> this
> > > should be so. Why would holding the larger gapped A-10 be
> correct,
> > > but not the smaller gapped A-Q?
> >
> > I'm not taking the time to review this closely, however, a fair
> > presumption has to do with the number of straights that are
> availble
> > should you discard the hold.
> >
> > A greater number of straights won't be possible on the draw if
you
> > discard a 10 vs. discard of a Q. Consequently, the value of
> > discarding A-10 will leave play results that has a smaller EV
than
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "a60sman" <A60sMan493@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "HOHOHONDO" <hohohondo@> wrote:
> > discarding A-Q. (Conversely, hold A-10 > hold A-Q).
> >
> > Given what you've observed, it can be assumed that there is a
> > predominance in ER as follows:
> >
> > A-10 > toss 5 > A-Q
> >
> > - Harry
> >
>
I checked the VP free pay tables and VPW and boths report the game at
98.8%. Not a great game...> > > I'm at a loss as to how to reply to this post. I'm looking
directly at the result of the analyze game function of Win Poker and it
clearly say the ER is 99.8282 for this game. Are you certain that you
have the correct paytable? --- 25/13/4/3/3/1/1
>
> I checked the VP free pay tables and VPW and boths report the game
at
> 98.8%. Not a great game...
>
> > > > I'm at a loss as to how to reply to this post. I'm looking
directly at the result of the analyze game function of Win Poker and
it
clearly say the ER is 99.8282 for this game. Are you certain that
you
have the correct paytable? --- 25/13/4/3/3/1/1
I believe you have the 5K for 6-Ks set to 25 when it should be set to
20. The value of 25 normally refers to the WRF.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "a60sman" <A60sMan493@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "kiwiboy4921" <waynes@> wrote:
>
> >
> > I checked the VP free pay tables and VPW and boths report the
game
at
> > 98.8%. Not a great game...
> >
> > > > > I'm at a loss as to how to reply to this post. I'm
looking
> directly at the result of the analyze game function of Win Poker
and
it
> clearly say the ER is 99.8282 for this game. Are you certain
that
you
> have the correct paytable? --- 25/13/4/3/3/1/1I believe you have the 5K for 6-Ks set to 25 when it should be set
to
20. The value of 25 normally refers to the WRF.
What can I say? Wife and I played 25/13/4/3/3/1/1 for close to 6
hours today at Gold Coast with no one else around us on the 20
machines offering the game. And who could blame them, since
according to you the game doesn't exist?
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mroejacks" <rgmustain@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "a60sman" <A60sMan493@> wrote:
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "kiwiboy4921" <waynes@> wrote:
I never said the game "doesn't exist", I was simply trying to clear up
the confusion in the stated ERs.
OK, you have found this game that pays back 25 for 6-K 5oaks ... but it
is not "technically" Bonus deuces and your reference to Bonus deuces is
what probably led to the confusion. The payback of 20 for 6-K 5oaks is
STANDARD for Bonus deuces. In the future, if you (or anyone) runs into
a game where the paytable is not standard then it would help if you
provided the entire pay table to avoid this type of confusion.
PS. I hope you checked ALL the 5oaks to make sure none of the others
were shorted.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "a60sman" <A60sMan493@...> wrote:
What can I say? Wife and I played 25/13/4/3/3/1/1 for close to 6
hours today at Gold Coast with no one else around us on the 20
machines offering the game. And who could blame them, since
according to you the game doesn't exist?
The game I was refering to has a pay table of:
3K-ST-FL-FH-SF-4K-4K-4K-WR-4D-4D-RO
1-1-3-3-4-13-20-40-80-25-200-400-800 ... 98.80% Bonus Deuces Wild
This shows 20/40/80 values for 5 of a Kind and 25 for a wild royal.
I am assuming your 25 is also for a wild royal (right?). Perhaps you
don't mean Bonus Deuces Wild or the 5-K really does pay 25 (125)
instead of the standard 20 (100)?
Full pay for bonus deuces wild is 1-1-3-4-4-9-20-40-80-25 which pays
99.45%. There is supposed to be a version where the STFL pays 10 but
I have never seen it.
Cheers
>
> I checked the VP free pay tables and VPW and boths report the
game at
> 98.8%. Not a great game...
>
> > > > I'm at a loss as to how to reply to this post. I'm looking
directly at the result of the analyze game function of Win Poker
and it
clearly say the ER is 99.8282 for this game. Are you certain that
you
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "a60sman" <A60sMan493@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "kiwiboy4921" <waynes@> wrote:
have the correct paytable? --- 25/13/4/3/3/1/1
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> What can I say? Wife and I played 25/13/4/3/3/1/1 for close to 6
> hours today at Gold Coast with no one else around us on the 20
> machines offering the game. And who could blame them, since
> according to you the game doesn't exist?I never said the game "doesn't exist", I was simply trying to clear
up
the confusion in the stated ERs.
OK, you have found this game that pays back 25 for 6-K 5oaks ...
but it
is not "technically" Bonus deuces and your reference to Bonus
deuces is
what probably led to the confusion. The payback of 20 for 6-K 5oaks
is
STANDARD for Bonus deuces. In the future, if you (or anyone) runs
into
a game where the paytable is not standard then it would help if you
provided the entire pay table to avoid this type of confusion.PS. I hope you checked ALL the 5oaks to make sure none of the
others
were shorted.
Good greif, you certainly can be anal, oneeye. The game machine is
*named* "Deuces Wild Bonus Poker". It's in big bold letters and is
found @ the quarter level in at least 3 casinos that I am aware of ---
Gold Coast, Texas Station and Silverton. Silverton even offers the
game at the nickle and dime levels. --- And no, I have not made a
mistake in the pay table. You need to get out more, that's all.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mroejacks" <rgmustain@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "a60sman" <A60sMan493@> wrote:
I sincerely apologize for trying to help you out. Like the old saying
goes, no good deed will go unpunished.
Now, "good grief", please try to READ this post instead of skimming
over it assuming you know what you're talking about. If you go into
winpoker and LOOK closely you will see you have BOTH the wild royal
flush and 6-K 5oak set to 25. This is why you get 99.8282% return
instead of 98.8025%. Also if you LOOK at the default values of the 5
oaks you will see they are 80/40/20 (PS, 20 is not the same as 25).
These values are the STANDARD values for Bonus Deuces Wild. The only
values that are commonly changed for this game are WRF, SF and below.
If you have run into a game that has the 6-K 5oak set to 25 then it is
an anomaly and you should have called it out in your note (which would
have eliminated the confusion immediately). When you posted
25/13/4/3/3/1/1, I (and most others) assumed that 25 stood for the
value of the WRF. Also consider that changing 80/40/20 in BDW is akin
to changing 160/80/50 in Double Bonus and still calling it Double Bonus.
Now, if you go back and read my posts maybe you will understand (but
then I thought it was already obvious). Take note that I wasn't the
original responder to your post, I only tried to explain the confusion
in the two paybacks, 99.8282 vs. 98.8025. After you do this I expect an
apology (in my dreams).
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "a60sman" <A60sMan493@...> wrote:
>
Good greif, you certainly can be anal, oneeye. The game machine is
*named* "Deuces Wild Bonus Poker". It's in big bold letters and is
found @ the quarter level in at least 3 casinos that I am aware of ---
Gold Coast, Texas Station and Silverton. Silverton even offers the
game at the nickle and dime levels. --- And no, I have not made a
mistake in the pay table. You need to get out more, that's all.