vpFREE2 Forums

Deceptive Casino Promos

#1

Howdy

Does the CCC have any involvement or authority in policing the shady tactics
the casino sometimes use to lure the players into their den of iniquity ?

I am sure most of you here have had a distasteful experience in this area. I
have. Where does ethics enter into the equation? Or do they spell it
M-O-N-E-Y?

Grumpy

<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

Actually, they spell it, "Management reserves all rights!".
~Babe~

···

=====================================================
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, BANDSTAND54@... wrote:

Does the CCC have any involvement or authority in policing the shady
tactics the casino sometimes use to lure the players into their den of
iniquity?

I am sure most of you here have had a distasteful experience in this
area. I have. Where does ethics enter into the equation? Or do they
spell it M-O-N-E-Y?
Grumpy

#3

Could you please elaborate on these tactics? I can't even guess what
you're talking about.

=====================================================

Does the CCC have any involvement or authority in policing the shady
tactics the casino sometimes use to lure the players into their den of
iniquity?

I am sure most of you here have had a distasteful experience in this
area. I have. Where does ethics enter into the equation? Or do they
spell it M-O-N-E-Y?
Grumpy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, BANDSTAND54@... wrote:

#4

Could you please elaborate on these tactics? I can't even guess

what you're talking about.

>=====================================================
>
>Does the CCC have any involvement or authority in policing the

shady tactics the casino sometimes use to lure the players into their
den of iniquity?

Well, I don't know what problems BANDSTAND54@ has run into, but I can
think of a few examples that have made steam come out of my ears:

1. I was playing at a bar top quarter machine in a local's casino,
where they had small signs on the bar that said "$25 bonus for
hitting four 7s". I managed to actually get four 7s, so I called
over a slot person, who had no idea what I was talking about, even
when I showed her the sign. She then called over a supervisor, who
told me that my quad 7s didn't count, because they had to all be next
to each other: i.e. 7777x or x7777. I said that the signs on the bar
had no such reference, but she told me that the detailed promotional
rules posted on the wall located behind the desk at the players club
specified this requirement. My thoughts were "Well, *&%%^!!!". Why
even have a promotion like this? All it accomplishes is to annoy a
lot of players who don't take the time to read the detailed rules -
and all for a measly $25.

2. I went to a casino for a double point promotion that was
mentioned on their monthly coupon mailer. Prior to the promotion, I
carefully read over the mailer several times, front and back, and
found no mention of a video poker exclusion. Plus, this particular
casino had run double point days many times in the past where VP also
got double points, so I had no reason to expect VP to be excluded
this time. I started to play - and no double points. I tried
talking to the slot club boothlings, but they were clueless. I kept
moving up the food chain until I was finally told by a supervisor
that VP machines didn't get double points. I told him that this
information should have been included in the mailer, because it was
not stated ANYWHERE. Guess what? Next month the disclaimer appeared
in the mailer, and also posted on the machines themselves.

3. Multiple points that aren't. You play on a point multiplier day,
where the extra points don't show on the countdown meter, but instead
are somehow manually credited to your account a day or two later. But
they never show up. Ever. You have to hound people to death to get
your extra points credited, and then you still may not be
successful. Yes, I'm mostly talking about the Evil Empire.

4. Just a general complaint that happens way too often: A casino
will publish some sort of a promotion in the paper, or in one of the
casino newsletters, or in their own mailers, but when you visit the
casino, nobody knows what the heck you're talking about. How can
marketing come up with a promotion and not let the front line people
in on the secret???

EE

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@...> wrote:

>--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, BANDSTAND54@ wrote:

#5

I started to play - and no double points. I tried
talking to the slot club boothlings, but they were clueless. I kept
moving up the food chain until I was finally told by a supervisor
that VP machines didn't get double points. I told him that this
information should have been included in the mailer, because it was
not stated ANYWHERE.

You have now reached the point in time where you inquire to the supervisor,
would you mind calling an agent at the NGC Enforcement Division and have
them send someone over to help us solve our dilemma? If they refuse, you
call, ---Enforcement Division 702-486-2020. Their offices are at Washington
& LV Blvd.
Nudge

···

From: "eecounter" <eecounter@hotmail.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Deceptive Casino Promos

#6

I started to play - and no double points. I tried
talking to the slot club boothlings, but they were clueless. I kept
moving up the food chain until I was finally told by a supervisor
that VP machines didn't get double points. I told him that this
information should have been included in the mailer, because it was
not stated ANYWHERE.

You have now reached the point in time where you inquire to the supervisor,
would you mind calling an agent at the NGC Enforcement Division and have
them send someone over to help us solve our dilemma? If they refuse, you
call, ---Enforcement Division 702-486-2020. Their offices are at Washington
& LV Blvd.
Nudge

---Nice idea but is that really worth that effort???

Scot

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
nudge51
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 1:10 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Deceptive Casino Promos

From: "eecounter" <eecounter@hotmail.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Deceptive Casino Promos

#7

---Nice idea but is that really worth that effort???

If you are the least bit skilled in the art of negotiation, no calls should
have to be made by or to anyone. I have been involved in similar cases to
the one in ee's post, and have never wound up on the short end of the stick.
For those who may be weak in dealing from a position of weakness, I would
recommend a very old, but still worthy reference titled -You Can Negotiate
Anything- by Herb Cohen.
           Nudge

···

From: "Scot Krause" Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Deceptive Casino Promos

#8

Wow - you need to chill out. Actions like this will eventually force
the casinos into less favorable Video Poker or some other rules.

The casino owes you/us NOTHING. Calling Mommy and Daddy is not the
answer.

Gee!

You have now reached the point in time where you inquire to the

supervisor,

would you mind calling an agent at the NGC Enforcement Division and have
them send someone over to help us solve our dilemma? If they

refuse, you

call, ---Enforcement Division 702-486-2020. Their offices are at

Washington

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nudge51" <nudge51@...> wrote:

& LV Blvd.
Nudge

#9

movedtoomuch <movedtoomuch@yahoo.com> wrote: Wow - you need to chill out. Actions like this will eventually force
the casinos into less favorable Video Poker or some other rules.

The casino owes you/us NOTHING. Calling Mommy and Daddy is not the
answer.

Gee!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
   
  Mr. Moved,
   
  Others will respond far more eloquently than I, but you are jumping to conclusions here. They do owe something - if they have it written or implied they owe it to you. If calling the NGC forces them to get it right then that is a good thing for all of us.
   
  This is an adversarial relationship no matter how you look at it. They will impose any restricitions they think they can get away with. Do you think they would offer nothing but 85% VP if people would play it? That's what we have here in Washington, and the people are dumb enough to play it - why should they offer anything better?
   
  Hold their feet to the fire, in a nice way of course, and you might get what is promised.
   
  Would I call the NGC as Nudge suggested? If I was pissed off enough, you bet. Just on principle - but I'm pretty stubborn when it comes to stuff like that.
   
  Okay Mr. moved, you are in a cab to the strip from the airport and you get "tunneled", adding five or six bucks to your fare. Do you bend over and grab your ankles? Do you call the Taxi Commission? Do you refuse to pay the fare? Or do you just go ahead and let him have his way with you?
   
  I guess you could call your Mommy and Daddy........
   
  Jigger
   
  "I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter."

···

---------------------------------
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Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10

I guess you could call your Mommy and Daddy........

—Or just take your ball and go to a better playground???

Scot

#11

I VOTE FOR GOING TO A BETTER PLAYGROUND.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Scot Krause" <krauseinvegas@...> wrote:

  I guess you could call your Mommy and Daddy........

—Or just take your ball and go to a better playground???

Scot

#12

Howdy

Does the CCC have any involvement or authority in policing the shady

tactics

the casino sometimes use to lure the players into their den of

iniquity ?

Sounds like another dissatisified HET customer. Quite frankly, this is
a lawsuit in the making. A very large one.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, BANDSTAND54@... wrote:

_________________________________________________________________________

paladingaming.net

#13

"paladingamingllc" <paladingamingllc@...> wrote:

Sounds like another dissatisified HET customer. Quite frankly, this is
a lawsuit in the making. A very large one.

I almost posted when I saw the complaint, but your comment made me feel
that I really should.

I am a VERY SATISFIED HET customer. Yes, I know there is better VP and
I'd love it if they offered it too. BUT, on the whole, I haven't seen a
rewards program or a "care of customer" better at any "group" of
Casinos.

This even overcame my concerns that the people in Las Vegas casinos are
not nearly as friendly as those at most the others I've been to. But,
that applied to all brands, not just HET brands ... I believe it has to
do with a much smaller percentage of "regulars." That is regrettable.

I've been a Harrah's player ever since they opened their first non-
Nevada property and have played at many of theirs, and those of others
around the country. Many of those years I was a Diamond, and last year
I went 7 Stars. But, my mom is Gold and gets treated with respect and
we all get great offers and they have NEVER been denied or misleading
in my belief. (That is a matter of opinion, someone said an offer
of "up to $5,000 is misleading if most are small" .. that is not
limited to Casinos, to me it's common knowledge that advertising works
that way." )

I've had beautiful suites when i didn't really think that I deserved
them, and on my recent trip to Las Vegas, I hardly dented my Reward
Credit balance while paying for everything that wasn't already free to
me at Harrah's properties with points. (This included very expensive
meals and drinking 25 year old Scotch.)

I'm not a high roller ... by most standards but I get treated to make
me feel like I am a VIP. Heck, I even got flowers to my home from my
local host on my birthday.

You are free to disagree, and I'm certain you will, but there are many
people out here that are very satisfied with Harrah's. They wouldn't be
so successful and have so many Diamond and 7Stars members if there
weren't a lot of satisfied people.

Lavona Rann
Plainfield, IL 60544

#14

We also love Harrahs and get treated very nice:)

>
> Sounds like another dissatisified HET customer. Quite frankly, this is
> a lawsuit in the making. A very large one.

I almost posted when I saw the complaint, but your comment made me feel
that I really should.

I am a VERY SATISFIED HET customer. Yes, I know there is better VP and
I'd love it if they offered it too. BUT, on the whole, I haven't seen a
rewards program or a "care of customer" better at any "group" of
Casinos.

This even overcame my concerns that the people in Las Vegas casinos are
not nearly as friendly as those at most the others I've been to. But,
that applied to all brands, not just HET brands ... I believe it has to
do with a much smaller percentage of "regulars." That is regrettable.

I've been a Harrah's player ever since they opened their first non-
Nevada property and have played at many of theirs, and those of others
around the country. Many of those years I was a Diamond, and last year
I went 7 Stars. But, my mom is Gold and gets treated with respect and
we all get great offers and they have NEVER been denied or misleading
in my belief. (That is a matter of opinion, someone said an offer
of "up to $5,000 is misleading if most are small" .. that is not
limited to Casinos, to me it's common knowledge that advertising works
that way." )

I've had beautiful suites when i didn't really think that I deserved
them, and on my recent trip to Las Vegas, I hardly dented my Reward
Credit balance while paying for everything that wasn't already free to
me at Harrah's properties with points. (This included very expensive
meals and drinking 25 year old Scotch.)

I'm not a high roller ... by most standards but I get treated to make
me feel like I am a VIP. Heck, I even got flowers to my home from my
local host on my birthday.

You are free to disagree, and I'm certain you will, but there are many
people out here that are very satisfied with Harrah's. They wouldn't be
so successful and have so many Diamond and 7Stars members if there
weren't a lot of satisfied people.

Lavona Rann
Plainfield, IL 60544

···

Lavona Rann <lrann2@earthlink.net> wrote: "paladingamingllc" <paladingamingllc@...> wrote:

---------------------------------
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#15

I have gotten reemed out before for stating that I like Harrah's, so it's good to know that someone else shares my opinion. Their VP does bite, though. Fortunately I like to play other games, so I play those at Harrah's and take my VP play to other casinos. Harrah's has been very good to us as far as comps, in my opinion.

···

We also love Harrahs and get treated very nice:)

Lavona Rann <lrann2@earthlink.net> wrote: "paladingamingllc" <paladingamingllc@...> wrote:
>
> Sounds like another dissatisified HET customer. Quite frankly, this is
> a lawsuit in the making. A very large one.

I almost posted when I saw the complaint, but your comment made me feel
that I really should.

I am a VERY SATISFIED HET customer. Yes, I know there is better VP and
I'd love it if they offered it too. BUT, on the whole, I haven't seen a
rewards program or a "care of customer" better at any "group" of
Casinos.

This even overcame my concerns that the people in Las Vegas casinos are
not nearly as friendly as those at most the others I've been to. But,
that applied to all brands, not just HET brands ... I believe it has to
do with a much smaller percentage of "regulars." That is regrettable.

I've been a Harrah's player ever since they opened their first non-
Nevada property and have played at many of theirs, and those of others
around the country. Many of those years I was a Diamond, and last year
I went 7 Stars. But, my mom is Gold and gets treated with respect and
we all get great offers and they have NEVER been denied or misleading
in my belief. (That is a matter of opinion, someone said an offer
of "up to $5,000 is misleading if most are small" .. that is not
limited to Casinos, to me it's common knowledge that advertising works
that way." )

I've had beautiful suites when i didn't really think that I deserved
them, and on my recent trip to Las Vegas, I hardly dented my Reward
Credit balance while paying for everything that wasn't already free to
me at Harrah's properties with points. (This included very expensive
meals and drinking 25 year old Scotch.)

I'm not a high roller ... by most standards but I get treated to make
me feel like I am a VIP. Heck, I even got flowers to my home from my
local host on my birthday.

You are free to disagree, and I'm certain you will, but there are many
people out here that are very satisfied with Harrah's. They wouldn't be
so successful and have so many Diamond and 7Stars members if there
weren't a lot of satisfied people.

Lavona Rann
Plainfield, IL 60544

---------------------------------
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#16

It is true that some (most?) of the VP at Harrah's properties are "useless". However, there are
some "reasonable" plays at some of the properties (in my opinion, anyway).

List me among those who "like" Harrah's, as long as one choses prudently where one goes
and what one plays.

As always, one size does not fit all.

.....bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Cat Denton" <cat@...> wrote:

Their VP does bite, though.

#17

Harrah's VP is horrible in Vegas. However, there are some decent
plays in A/C (a few machines in Caesars & Harrahs, more at Showboat).
I'm a 9/6 JoB player and have a choice of 24 machines at the $.25/
$.50/$1 level at Showboat.

So, I get all the comps I can out of Harrahs properties in A/C but
refuse to play in their Vegas properties (I stay downtown).

"paladingamingllc" <paladingamingllc@> wrote:
>
> Sounds like another dissatisified HET customer. Quite frankly,

this is

> a lawsuit in the making. A very large one.

I almost posted when I saw the complaint, but your comment made me

feel

that I really should.

I am a VERY SATISFIED HET customer. Yes, I know there is better VP

and

I'd love it if they offered it too. BUT, on the whole, I haven't

seen a

rewards program or a "care of customer" better at any "group" of
Casinos.

This even overcame my concerns that the people in Las Vegas casinos

are

not nearly as friendly as those at most the others I've been to.

But,

that applied to all brands, not just HET brands ... I believe it

has to

do with a much smaller percentage of "regulars." That is

regrettable.

I've been a Harrah's player ever since they opened their first non-
Nevada property and have played at many of theirs, and those of

others

around the country. Many of those years I was a Diamond, and last

year

I went 7 Stars. But, my mom is Gold and gets treated with respect

and

we all get great offers and they have NEVER been denied or

misleading

in my belief. (That is a matter of opinion, someone said an offer
of "up to $5,000 is misleading if most are small" .. that is not
limited to Casinos, to me it's common knowledge that advertising

works

that way." )

I've had beautiful suites when i didn't really think that I

deserved

them, and on my recent trip to Las Vegas, I hardly dented my Reward
Credit balance while paying for everything that wasn't already free

to

me at Harrah's properties with points. (This included very

expensive

meals and drinking 25 year old Scotch.)

I'm not a high roller ... by most standards but I get treated to

make

me feel like I am a VIP. Heck, I even got flowers to my home from

my

local host on my birthday.

You are free to disagree, and I'm certain you will, but there are

many

people out here that are very satisfied with Harrah's. They

wouldn't be

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Lavona Rann" <lrann2@...> wrote:

so successful and have so many Diamond and 7Stars members if there
weren't a lot of satisfied people.

Lavona Rann
Plainfield, IL 60544

#18

In my opinion (and experience) what you are describing is the
carelessness, ineptitude and incompetence that permeates our
industry. The phrase "shady tactics" implies intention; the things
you mention are not intentional. They are extremely
counter-productive and stupid, but not malicious.

When I was working for Stations I showed a flyer from the monthly
mailer to a GM that seemed to imply a daily special from that
property's restaurant when it really meant to advertise the special
from the other restaurant on the page. There had already been
complaints from angry customers. I got in trouble for daring to mention this.

I'd still like to know any experiences with intentional malice.

Bill

···

At 12:22 PM 3/5/2007, you wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@...> wrote:
>
> Could you please elaborate on these tactics? I can't even guess
what you're talking about.
>
> >=====================================================
> >--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, BANDSTAND54@ wrote:
> >
> >Does the CCC have any involvement or authority in policing the
shady tactics the casino sometimes use to lure the players into their
den of iniquity?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Well, I don't know what problems BANDSTAND54@ has run into, but I can
think of a few examples that have made steam come out of my ears:

1. I was playing at a bar top quarter machine in a local's casino,
where they had small signs on the bar that said "$25 bonus for
hitting four 7s". I managed to actually get four 7s, so I called
over a slot person, who had no idea what I was talking about, even
when I showed her the sign. She then called over a supervisor, who
told me that my quad 7s didn't count, because they had to all be next
to each other: i.e. 7777x or x7777. I said that the signs on the bar
had no such reference, but she told me that the detailed promotional
rules posted on the wall located behind the desk at the players club
specified this requirement. My thoughts were "Well, *&%%^!!!". Why
even have a promotion like this? All it accomplishes is to annoy a
lot of players who don't take the time to read the detailed rules -
and all for a measly $25.

2. I went to a casino for a double point promotion that was
mentioned on their monthly coupon mailer. Prior to the promotion, I
carefully read over the mailer several times, front and back, and
found no mention of a video poker exclusion. Plus, this particular
casino had run double point days many times in the past where VP also
got double points, so I had no reason to expect VP to be excluded
this time. I started to play - and no double points. I tried
talking to the slot club boothlings, but they were clueless. I kept
moving up the food chain until I was finally told by a supervisor
that VP machines didn't get double points. I told him that this
information should have been included in the mailer, because it was
not stated ANYWHERE. Guess what? Next month the disclaimer appeared
in the mailer, and also posted on the machines themselves.

3. Multiple points that aren't. You play on a point multiplier day,
where the extra points don't show on the countdown meter, but instead
are somehow manually credited to your account a day or two later. But
they never show up. Ever. You have to hound people to death to get
your extra points credited, and then you still may not be
successful. Yes, I'm mostly talking about the Evil Empire.

4. Just a general complaint that happens way too often: A casino
will publish some sort of a promotion in the paper, or in one of the
casino newsletters, or in their own mailers, but when you visit the
casino, nobody knows what the heck you're talking about. How can
marketing come up with a promotion and not let the front line people
in on the secret???

EE

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#19

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Money Works <worksforthemoney@...>
wrote:

We also love Harrahs and get treated very nice:)

Lavona Rann <lrann2@...> wrote:

I'm not a high roller ... by most standards but I get treated to

make

me feel like I am a VIP. Heck, I even got flowers to my home from

my

local host on my birthday.

You are free to disagree, and I'm certain you will, but there are

many

people out here that are very satisfied with Harrah's. They

wouldn't be

so successful and have so many Diamond and 7Stars members if there
weren't a lot of satisfied people.

Lavona Rann
Plainfield, IL 60544

I mean no offense by this post. Just telling it the way I see it.

There is a technique in poker used by many an astute player. It's
called "be nice to the sucker." When you have a live one at the
table you don't want to do anything to run them off so be nice. I
get severely agitated when a so called "good player" chastises a bad
player for their bad play. You cannot build a pot if no one is in
with the worst hand.

With Harrah's "be nice to the sucker" is a business plan. And a very
good one indeed.

However! Several years ago, after watching me come in the door
everyday and sweep out the flush attacks and jackpot cards, Harrah's
Tahoe decided I was not a sucker. So they had no reason to be nice
to me. They told me I was not welcome to play their machines
anymore. They would not give me a reason but one of them let this
line slip "we've got to protect out customers." Explaining to them
that I didn't have any of their customers money but, rather, they
did, didn't get my priveleges back.

#20

I agree wholeheartedly with your premise.

But, there is a world of difference between being a "sucker" and being aware that someone
sees you as a "sucker". In many instances you can "turn the tables" and use this to your own
advantage. One can often "play the rube" and come out far, far ahead in the game. It is done
all the time.

.....just my opinion...

.....bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

There is a technique in poker used by many an astute player. It's
called "be nice to the sucker."