vpFREE2 Forums

Deception at Viejas (?!)

#1

"pesach kremen" wrote...

Viejas offers tiered slot program similar in many ways to the Vegas tiered systems but through the use of fine print and "management discretion" is deceiving.

They tell you that you go from one level to the next once you reach a certain amount of play in a 3 month period - True
You get upgraded when you reach the level of play -Somewhat True -a host must approve the upgrade. It is usually given though except at the top (MVP) level. There a cosino executive must approve it.
What they don't tell you -Video Poker only gets half as many points.

I don't understand your claim of deception. We've played at Viejas, though I don't have any of their paper brochures available. However, looking at their club benefits Web page at <http://www.viejas.com/html/vclub/benefits.html >, I see that they say not once but twice, "Club membership and promotion to the next club level are subject to management review and invitation." That seems pretty clear and non-deceptive.

They don't actually mention their point accrual rate for ANY games, which isn't unusual in the casino biz. If one were to label as "deceptive" every casino that neglected to fully document 100% of its policies, errr, then I guess EVERY casino is "deceptive" by that definition.

If you reach the very top level and are a video poker player you will never be granted the MVP level by management as per management we don't hold as much. Wow, with some of their pay tables they are full of what comes out of the back of a bull. They have a few NSUD in the non smoking section and perhaps some in the smoking section.

Hmmm, "full of what comes out of the back of a bull" is some pretty harsh words. Looking at the vpFREE database page for Viejas, it doesn't look bad: two game variants at 99.9%, one at 99.8%, two at 99.7%, and we haven't even made it down to good ol' 9/6 JOB yet. Multi-plays, MultiStrike, progressives, wide range of denominations... they don't seem to have FPDW with 1% cashback, but otherwise it looks like a very respectable inventory.

The complaints you describe seem far out of sync with the available evidence. I'm left wondering if there's some ulterior motive to your posting.

--Joe

#2

There are no ulterior motives. No where in any of there literature does it mention 1/2 the credit for video poker, and the management review in small print while in large print mentions the benefits of the club is less than truthful. Yes they have good plays but their actions will force one to play to the achievable limit (why take the risk to a higher level if no appropriate reward?) My intention is to let everyone know that once you reach the elite level, to not play for the sake of playing as being a video poker player do not expect to get the the highest MVP level. Even Rob Singer states that playing just for the points is foolhardy. Yes, playing there is fun and they have SOME good games, but the allegation that video poker doesn't have a good enough hold seems untrue in that many of the games have very poor pay tables, but fortunately for the knowledgeable players there are good games as well.

···

--- On Tue, 9/16/08, Joe Schober <afljoeys@aol.com> wrote:
From: Joe Schober <afljoeys@aol.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Deception at Viejas (?!)
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 3:25 PM

            "pesach kremen" wrote...

Viejas offers tiered slot program similar in many ways to the Vegas

tiered systems but through the use of fine print and "management

discretion" is deceiving.

They tell you that you go from one level to the next once you reach

a certain amount of play in a 3 month period - True

You get upgraded when you reach the level of play -Somewhat True -a

host must approve the upgrade. It is usually given though except at

the top (MVP) level. There a cosino executive must approve it.

What they don't tell you -Video Poker only gets half as many points.

I don't understand your claim of deception. We've played at Viejas,

though I don't have any of their paper brochures available. However,

looking at their club benefits Web page at <http://www.viejas. com/html/ vclub/benefits. html

>, I see that they say not once but twice, "Club membership and

promotion to the next club level are subject to management review and

invitation." That seems pretty clear and non-deceptive.

They don't actually mention their point accrual rate for ANY games,

which isn't unusual in the casino biz. If one were to label as

"deceptive" every casino that neglected to fully document 100% of its

policies, errr, then I guess EVERY casino is "deceptive" by that

definition.

If you reach the very top level and are a video poker player you

will never be granted the MVP level by management as per management

we don't hold as much. Wow, with some of their pay tables they are

full of what comes out of the back of a bull. They have a few NSUD

in the non smoking section and perhaps some in the smoking section.

Hmmm, "full of what comes out of the back of a bull" is some pretty

harsh words. Looking at the vpFREE database page for Viejas, it

doesn't look bad: two game variants at 99.9%, one at 99.8%, two at

99.7%, and we haven't even made it down to good ol' 9/6 JOB yet.

Multi-plays, MultiStrike, progressives, wide range of denominations. ..

they don't seem to have FPDW with 1% cashback, but otherwise it looks

like a very respectable inventory.

The complaints you describe seem far out of sync with the available

evidence. I'm left wondering if there's some ulterior motive to your

posting.

--Joe

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

pesach kremen <royalflush2222@...> wrote:

There are no ulterior motives. No where in any of there literature
does it mention 1/2 the credit for video poker

Does their literature actually document INCORRECT point accrual rates,
or does it just offer some general statement that playing games earns
points? The former would be deceptive; the latter isn't.

and the management review in small print while in large print
mentions the benefits of the club is less than truthful.

Font sizes convey truth? That's a, umm, interesting point of view.

My intention is to let everyone know that once you reach the
elite level, to not play for the sake of playing as being a
video poker player do not expect to get the the highest MVP
level.

I think that is a completely fine statement, and valuable information.

However, my concern is your headline statement that there is
"deception" at Viejas, which IMHO is an unfair accusation to a casino
that actually offers a pretty decent product overall for most players.
If you have evidence of true deception, by all means document it, but
I don't think your comments thus far really support that stance. I
don't think it's beneficial to this group or its members to disparage
a specific casino that's following procedures customary to its
industry while actually offering reasonable games.

--Joe