In both 10/7 and 9/7 Double Bonus- two pair are listed over 3 royal on strategy links . K,Q,J,AND Q,J,10, are listed over a high pair.
I was dealt K,Q,J of clubs, with another K and and a Q for 2 pair.
What would the prog. royal need to be to keep KQJs OR QJ10s over 2 pair in 9/7? and 10/7( 10 full house would be a higher ev on the 2 pair).
I looked at this about 15 years ago using Stanford Wong's software.
For 10-7 DB I show the break point for two pair as follows:
QJT - 5235 (This is higher if you are breaking a pair of Ts but the amount
is not in my notes.)
KQJ - 5455
KQT or KJT - 5825 (6025 if you are breaking a pair of Ts.)
AKT, AQT or AJT - 6415 (6615 if you are breaking a pair of Ts)
AKQ, AKJ or AQJ - 6045
I cannot find my 9-7 charts. Sorry.
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
billvolk11
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 3:59 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] DB prog strategy ?
In both 10/7 and 9/7 Double Bonus- two pair are listed over 3 royal on
strategy links . K,Q,J,AND Q,J,10, are listed over a high pair.
I was dealt K,Q,J of clubs, with another K and and a Q for 2 pair.
What would the prog. royal need to be to keep KQJs OR QJ10s over 2 pair in
9/7? and 10/7( 10 full house would be a higher ev on the 2 pair).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Great post, Nudge!! I recently changed to a new PC and put my charts out to
disc. I was in a rush to leave so I did not look it up when I saw the
question. I had a hard copy from the good old days when Empress Joliet (IL)
had 10-7 DB with a 0.25% meter progressive and 0.25% cash back with a dbl
and a triple pt day each week. At one point they had over 30 $ games. This
was available for $ and for quarters. (Jean Scott used to play the $ version
when she visited relatives in this area.) Harrah's Joliet had $ 9-7DB with
a 1% meter (0.2% cash back but no multipliers) so sometimes this game would
have a higher EV. (Harrah's had 25c 10-7 with no progressive for a short
time.) Of course, sadly all of this is long gone!!
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
nudge51
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 12:24 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] DB prog strategy ?
--------------------------------------------------
From: "billvolk11" <billvolk11@yahoo.com <mailto:billvolk11%40yahoo.com> >
Subject: [vpFREE] DB prog strategy ?
What would the prog. royal need to be to keep KQJs OR QJ10s over 2 pair in
9/7? and 10/7( 10 full house would be a higher ev on the 2 pair).
I could swear that I posted a response to this question, but in checking in
my sent items folder, it does not look like I did. I did see Howard's
response covering the 10-7 game, but nothing for the 9-7. I probably meant
to post but got sidetracked by doing something really important, like trying
to figure out just what the hell Bifidus Regularis is, then forgot about it.
Anyway, here are the strikes points for quarter 9-7 DB progressive, rounded
up to the next highest $5 increment.
9-7 DB 3 ROYAL OVER TWO PAIR
TJQ > 2 Pr. T 's & J 's/ T 's & Q 's.....$1,195
TJQ > 2 Pr. J 's & Q 's............................$1,245
JQK > 2 HI. Pr............................................$1,250
JQA/JKA > 2 HI Pr ( NOT A 's ) .......$1,400
JQA/JKA > 2 HI Pr. ( 1 A 's )...............$1,495
3 ROY w T & A > 2 Pr. T 's & A 's...$1,590
3 ROY w T & A > 2 HI Pr. 1 A's........$1,640
Personally, I only play 9-7 DB in progressive form. Although there are
only a couple of changes when changing from 10-7 to 9-7 on a flat top royal,
when you add progression, the game waters get quite muddy. I have vowed to
only play this game when it becomes potentially positive, which is at a
1-1/2 royal, or 6000 coins ($1,500 at the quarter level). Now the number of
changes between flat top 10-7 and 9-7 progressive look pretty daunting. For
those of you that have the 10-7 strategy ingrained in your brain, beginning
play on the 9-7 prog. will tend to quickly fry your brain if you are
striving for accuracy, like I want to do. Now I realize that some of the
differences on hand holds that I am about to list are chintzy, but I am from
the old, or maybe now ancient school, that something is either right or it
isn't. If there are some of you that can just pick up a few tips, that's
great, if not, that's fine too. After all, what I am posting is free and I
ain't tryin' to sell nothin'. I did my selling for 28 years and I'm done
with that. When it comes to Fame and Fortune from video poker, I'm just
looking for a little slice of the latter. The pursuit of the Fame part,
I'll leave to the guru writer experts. Anyway, here is part two.
CHANGES MADE TO 10-7 DB STRATEGY
TO PLAY 9-7 PROG. WHEN > $1,500
FLU 4 2 HI > JJ,QQ,KK
(TK) > A w 0 or 9 ST PEN
(TJ) > ST4 I w 1 HI2
HI SUITED > FLU 3 2HIA
A + HI CARD UNSUIT w FLU PEN
A > A + HI CARD w NON FACE
FLU CARD TO A & 0 OR 1
BICYCLE ST PEN TO ATA
A w NO FLU PEN
(TA) > JA,QA,KA w NO FLU PEN(TK)>
JK,QK UN w NO FLU PENAA
2 PAIR(TJ)
(TJ)Q
(TQ) > TQx SUITED(TQ)
w 0 or1 FLU PEN > QK
(TJQ,JQK,JQA,JKA) w NO FLU PEN > ANY HI PAIR
(TJQ,JQK,JQA,JKA).,JQA,JKA w FLU PEN> HI PAIR EXC. A'S
ANY 3 ROY w NO T > ANY 2 HI Pr.(TJK,TQK)
w ST OR FL PEN > HI Pr.
3 ROY w T & A > HI PAIR EXC. A'SANY
3 ROYAL > FLU 4 w 3 HI
I try to be consistent when comparing holds to each other. If one hand
choice has suited cards and the other does not, I will use ( ) around the
suited cards. If both hand choices involve suited cards, say TJ > 3 STFL 1
GAP 0 HI, even though we're talking two different suits, I leave the ( )
off. The next part of my chart are changes made to normal strategy as the
royal climbs.
9-7 QUARTER DB PROG CHANGES
(TQ) > 89(TQ) w 0 PEN...........................$1,510
TK > TKx w 0 PEN......................................$1,550
(TJA/TQA/TKA) > AA w 0 PEN........... $1,580
3 ROY w T & A > 2 Pr. T 's & A 's......$1,590
(TJA/TQA/TKA) > AA w ST PEN.........$1,610
3 ROY w T & A > 2 HI Pr. 1 A's...........$1,640
TK > TKx w 9 ST PEN...............................$1,650
(TJA/TQA/TKA) > AA w FLU PEN......$1,660
A > A+HI CARD w 2 CARDS 5 OR
LESS IN HAND & 1 SUITED w A......$1,675
(TJ) > (TJ)Q w FLU PEN...........................$1,710
(TK) w FLU PEN > KA..............................$1,730
(JQ) > ST4I 3 HI w T(JQ)A or w
9(JQ)K......................................................$1,745
(TQ) > TJQ w 0 FLU PEN.......................$1,760
(JQ) w8 ST PEN>ST4I ACE HI 3HI.....$1,820
(TK) w FLU PEN > JK/QK.......................$1,830
(TA) w FLU PEN > A.................................$1,860
(TQ) > 89(TQ) w FLU PEN.....................$1,900
(TA) > BYC. ST 4 I A LOW w NO
FLU PEN..................................................$1,990
(TA) w FLU PEN > JA/QA/KA ............$2,040
(JK/QK) > ST4 I 3 HI 0 PEN.................$2,095
(JQ) w FL PEN>ST4I ACE HI 3HI.......$2,140
(TQ) > TJQ w FLU PEN..........................$2,155
(JA/QA/KA) > ST4 I ACE HI 3 HI
w 0 PEN..................................................$2,305
(JK/QK) > ST4I 3 HI w FLU PEN........$2,490
(TJ) > (234,235,245,346,356)........$2,605
(TJQ) > (8TJQ) w 0 PEN........................$2,665
(TJ) > 8(TJ)Q w 0 PEN.............................$2,690
(TJ) > 9(TJ)K w 0 PEN (NO 7,A)..........$2,690
(JA/QA/KA) > ST4 I ACE HI 3 HI
w FLU PEN.............................................$2,700
(JQ) > 8JQ w 9 ST PEN..........................$2,705
(TJ) > (457, 467)....................$2,705
(TJ) > 9(TJ)K w 7 ST PEN......................$2,765
TJ > 7TJ w 8 ST PEN...............................$2,815
(JQ) > 8JQ w 0 PEN................................$2,900
TJ > 7TJ w 9 ST PEN...............................$2,915
TJ > 7TJ w 0 PEN.....................................$3,015
(TQ) > 9(TQ)K w 0 PEN........................$3,035
(JK/QK) > 3 STFL OPEN 0 HI..........$3,070
(JQ) > ST 4 I 4 HI NO PEN...............$3,075
(JQ) > (8JQ) w A ST PEN..................$3,080
(TQ) > 9(TQ)K w 8 ST PEN.................$3,110
(JQ) > ST 4 I 4 HI w 8 ST PEN...........$3,175
(JQ) > ST 4 I 4 HI w 9 ST PEN...........$3,250
TQ > 8TQ w 9 ST PEN..........................$3,260
(JA/QA/KA) > 3 STFL OPEN 0 HI...$3,380
(TQ) > ST 4 I 2 HI w FLU PEN ..........$3,430
TQ > 8TQ w 0 PEN................................$3,460
(JQ) > ST 4 I 4 HI w FLU PEN.........$3,470
(TQ) > (8TQ) w J ST PEN..................$3,480
(JK,QK) > ST 4 I A HI w 0 PEN..........$3,525
(TJ) > (TJ)KA w 0 PEN...........................$3,920
(TJ) > (TJ)QA w 0 PEN..........................$4,020
(TQ) > (TQ)KA w 0 PEN .....................$4,365
(TQ) > (TQ)KA w 9 ST PEN................$4,540
For those of you concerned about trivial things like return percentages and
cycle length, here are those figures.
Return 3-play
Roy cyl var w strat chg total
$1,000 48,035 28.55 99.11% $3,000
$1,100 42,845 33.28 99.28% $3,300
$1,200 39,503 38.51 99.48% $3,600
$1,300 36,202 45.07 99.69% $3,900
$1,400 35,723 50.31 99.91% $4,200
$1,500 34,686 56.67 100.14% $4,500
$1,600 34,018 63.28 100.37% $4,800
$1,700 33,661 70.08 100.60% $5,100
$1,800 33,517 76.99 100.84% $5,400
$1,900 33,276 84.55 101.08% $5,700
$2,000 33,261 92.08 101.32% $6,000
$2,200 32,980 109.03 101.80% $6,600
$2,400 32,/33 127.38 102.29% $7,200
$2,600 32,799 147.01 102.78% $7,800
$2,800 32,581 169.10 103.27% $8,400
$3,000 32,388 192.93 103.76% $9,000
Abbreviations should be clear but if anyone has a question, or if you spot a
bonehead error, and I've been known to make em, please post.
Nudge
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What does the word "bicycle" mean in your strategy? Thanks for your answer, I am grateful you have spent time on this.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nudge51" <nudge51@...> wrote:
--------------------------------------------------
From: "nudge51" <nudge51@...>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] DB prog strategy ?It still isn't right so I am doing it line by line and hitting the enter key
after each line. This will be the final will and testament on this post.FLU 4 2 HI > JJ,QQ,KK
(TK) > A w 0 or 9 ST PEN
TJ) > ST4 I w 1 HI
2 HI SUITED > FLU 3 2HI
A > A + HI CARD UNSUIT w FLU PEN
A > A + HI CARD w NON FACE
FLU CARD TO A & 0 OR 1
BICYCLE ST PEN TO A
TA > A w NO FLU PEN
(TA) > JA,QA,KA w NO FLU PEN
AA > 2 PAIR
(TJ) > (TJ)Q
(TQ) > TQx SUITED
(TQ) w 0 or1 FLU PEN > QK
(TJQ,JQK,JQA,JKA) w NO FLU PEN > ANY HI PAIR
(TJQ,JQK,JQA,JKA).,JQA,JKA w FLU PEN> HI PAIR
EXC. A'S
ANY 3 ROY w NO T > ANY 2 HI Pr.
(TJK,TQK) w ST OR FL PEN > HI Pr.
3 ROY w T & A > HI PAIR EXC. A'S
ANY 3 ROYAL > FLU 4 w 3 HINudge
Nudge wrote:
"A + HI CARD w NON FACE
FLU CARD TO A & 0 OR 1
BICYCLE ST PEN TO ATA
A w NO FLU PEN"
tikithecat73lakeworth replied:
What does the word "bicycle" mean in your strategy?
Bicycle
1) A low, five high straight: 54321
2) The best possible hand in Lowball games
3) Also known as a "wheel"