vpFREE2 Forums

Daily Play vs. 6-month Play

#1

I've received my new Wolf card, downgraded from Sag.

In the past, everything I've read on this board indicated that DAILY
play was the measure which determined what level you are.

Based on this information, when the wife [low roller] & I would do an
overnight stay at MS, I would play on my card for the first day and
put 200-300 points on my card. On our departure day [with about 4-6
hour play] I would only play on my wife's card. I would still put
~150-200 points on her card.

With the "new" card, apparently your player level is now based on
your 6 MONTH play, not DAILY play----1,000 for Wolf, 2,000 for Sag.

I conclude that, with the "new" rules, I should exclusively use my
card, even on the abbreviated departure date---we average 1 overnight
a month---that's the equivalent to 9 full play days [6 overnights X
1.5 playing days] putting me up to ~2,000 pts/6 months without
increasing my level of play. That would, under my contention, put me
back up to Sag.

I like MS, but I've not received any room offers, for any days of the
week---that is, for me & the wife, a BIG cut in comps. I do receive
show tix, but we only go to 3-4 a year. My wife's big concern is that
we won't get any Jimmy Buffet tix this year.

All of you MS folks---does this make sense to you? Anybody know if my
contention [6-month play, not daily play anymore] is valid?

Your opinions & input are much appreciated.

Regards,

Ted

#2

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Ted Sohonyay" <Freedom_Fighter56@...>
wrote:

Your opinions & input are much appreciated.

I have my doubts about all these changes. The casino rates folks based on theo (with an
exception for large total losses) Points may be points-- but theo is, well, king. Yes, Theo
dropped a bit.. but not 50%. With the reduction in points, the casino keeps more for the
same theo (play)... so in theory they should comp you more, all other things being equal--
but they don't since they now offer free play /points and all other things are not equal.
IMO, the drop in points is (partially) offset by the free play/points-- depending how you use
yours. The sag/sachem status is another thing entirely-- and I'd bet it is theo based. Finding
out the theo requirements for each level will be valuable. Then we could determine how
much play was necessary for each level. Until that actually happens, my play will be based on
the free-play/points... and I'll likely drop from sachem (wolf) all the way down to wolf
sagamore. Oh well. Someone ask there host what the theo requirements are...

#3

CDS,
Well argued. Sachem Wife (NOT Sachem Wolf) will be asking those
questions when she is downgraded. As of this morning, she receives
offers for Rooms next month (and shows) 7 days/week. So maybe her
Sachem has been maintained. I was Sagamore but just received my Wolf.
That was expected. No way will I be able to maintain 1,000 points/6
months. Wife going to Reno in two weeks. Then we both go to Laughlin
end of April. Thanks, Harrahs :slight_smile:
David in Boston

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "cdfsrule"
<vpfree_digests@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Ted Sohonyay"

<Freedom_Fighter56@>

wrote:
>

>
> Your opinions & input are much appreciated.

I have my doubts about all these changes. The casino rates folks

based on theo (with an

exception for large total losses) Points may be points-- but theo

is, well, king. Yes, Theo

dropped a bit.. but not 50%. With the reduction in points, the

casino keeps more for the

same theo (play)... so in theory they should comp you more, all

other things being equal--

but they don't since they now offer free play /points and all other

things are not equal.

IMO, the drop in points is (partially) offset by the free

play/points-- depending how you use

yours. The sag/sachem status is another thing entirely-- and I'd

bet it is theo based. Finding

out the theo requirements for each level will be valuable. Then

we could determine how

much play was necessary for each level. Until that actually

happens, my play will be based on

the free-play/points... and I'll likely drop from sachem (wolf)

all the way down to wolf

sagamore. Oh well. Someone ask there host what the theo

requirements are...

···
#4

--- I think there are two issues. In order to stay at Sagamore you
will need the 2000 pts in 6 months. This gets you in the lounge, show
offers etc. However, most things are based on theo. The higher the
theo, the better show seats and marketing offers you will receive. I
think if getting the 2000 points causes your theo to go down
significantly because you short play on some trips, we will all have
to decide which is more important. I believe that in the long run,
theo is the most important number to the casino
IMHO
Mel

In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "cdfsrule" <vpfree_digests@...>
wrote:

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Ted Sohonyay"

<Freedom_Fighter56@>

wrote:
>

>
> Your opinions & input are much appreciated.

I have my doubts about all these changes. The casino rates folks

based on theo (with an

exception for large total losses) Points may be points-- but theo

is, well, king. Yes, Theo

dropped a bit.. but not 50%. With the reduction in points, the

casino keeps more for the

same theo (play)... so in theory they should comp you more, all

other things being equal--

but they don't since they now offer free play /points and all other

things are not equal.

IMO, the drop in points is (partially) offset by the free

play/points-- depending how you use

yours. The sag/sachem status is another thing entirely-- and I'd

bet it is theo based. Finding

out the theo requirements for each level will be valuable. Then

we could determine how

much play was necessary for each level. Until that actually

happens, my play will be based on

the free-play/points... and I'll likely drop from sachem (wolf)

all the way down to wolf

sagamore. Oh well. Someone ask there host what the theo

requirements are...

···
#5

Mel,
Thanks for your words of wisdom. It makes sense, from my experience,
in other venues. High Action on one day is always better than the
same amount over two days. But there are probably exceptions to the
rule. Also, doing some play on "evil" machines can be advantageous.
David in Boston

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "mel3dmdmsncom"
<mel3dmd@...> wrote:

--- I think there are two issues. In order to stay at Sagamore you
will need the 2000 pts in 6 months. This gets you in the lounge,

show

offers etc. However, most things are based on theo. The higher the
theo, the better show seats and marketing offers you will receive.

I

think if getting the 2000 points causes your theo to go down
significantly because you short play on some trips, we will all

have

to decide which is more important. I believe that in the long run,
theo is the most important number to the casino
IMHO
Mel

In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "cdfsrule" <vpfree_digests@>
wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Ted Sohonyay"
<Freedom_Fighter56@>
> wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > Your opinions & input are much appreciated.
>
> I have my doubts about all these changes. The casino rates folks
based on theo (with an
> exception for large total losses) Points may be points-- but

theo

is, well, king. Yes, Theo
> dropped a bit.. but not 50%. With the reduction in points, the
casino keeps more for the
> same theo (play)... so in theory they should comp you more, all
other things being equal--
> but they don't since they now offer free play /points and all

other

···

things are not equal.
> IMO, the drop in points is (partially) offset by the free
play/points-- depending how you use
> yours. The sag/sachem status is another thing entirely-- and I'd
bet it is theo based. Finding
> out the theo requirements for each level will be valuable. Then
we could determine how
> much play was necessary for each level. Until that actually
happens, my play will be based on
> the free-play/points... and I'll likely drop from sachem (wolf)
all the way down to wolf
> sagamore. Oh well. Someone ask there host what the theo
requirements are...
>

#6

Mel,
Thanks for your words of wisdom. It makes sense,
from my experience,
in other venues. High Action on one day is always
better than the
same amount over two days. But there are probably
exceptions to the
rule.

Also, doing some play on "evil" machines can

be advantageous.

Advantageous to who? :wink:

ST

···

--- haaljo <haaljo@yahoo.com> wrote:

David in Boston

      ____________________________________________________________________________________
No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now. Sweet deal for Yahoo! users and friends.
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text1.com

#7

Based upon the response below, I have a few questions:

1. Is there a formulaeic expression [a straightforward formula]
between theo and MS points? If there is, it is irrelevant which
measurement is used since they can be correlated. Yes, I've read Jean
Scott's explanation at
http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_Theo.htm#Scott . It's still not
clear. What is the formula, if it's known?

2. I used to "feed" the machine $300 at a time and start to play. I
now "feed" $100 at a time. Does this make any difference in the Theo?
I get from Jean's note above that it may play a role....

3. If "Theo" is the basis for comps, why do the new Wolf/Sag cards
state that one needs to "Earn XXXX points every 6 months to maintain
YYYY Club membership"?

Regards,

Ted

I have my doubts about all these changes. The casino rates folks

based on theo (with an

exception for large total losses) Points may be points-- but theo

is, well, king. Yes, Theo

dropped a bit.. but not 50%. With the reduction in points, the

casino keeps more for the

same theo (play)... so in theory they should comp you more, all

other things being equal--

but they don't since they now offer free play /points and all other

things are not equal.

IMO, the drop in points is (partially) offset by the free

play/points-- depending how you use

yours. The sag/sachem status is another thing entirely-- and I'd

bet it is theo based. Finding

out the theo requirements for each level will be valuable. Then

we could determine how

much play was necessary for each level. Until that actually

happens, my play will be based on

the free-play/points... and I'll likely drop from sachem (wolf)

all the way down to wolf

sagamore. Oh well. Someone ask there host what the theo

requirements are...

···
#8

---There is no ratio between points and theo. Since Sept every
machine is rated differently by how much it pays out. The bartops are
around 5% and the pickum is around 3.5% The slots vary depending on
machine but is in the range of 6-9%. Points accumulate differently
depending on denomination and on the VP game you are playing. The
only way to correlate points to theo is by playing the same machines
(JOB or Pickum) and doing the math. i.e 30g coin in on $1 JOB equals
270 points and a theo of around 1500. Change machines and games and
it is impossible to figure out. It doesn't matter if you put in $100
or $1000. Since I only play JOB I have been able to figure out my
theo with 1% by using my coin in times 5%.
Hope this helps
Mel

In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Ted Sohonyay"
<Freedom_Fighter56@...> wrote:

Based upon the response below, I have a few questions:

1. Is there a formulaeic expression [a straightforward formula]
between theo and MS points? If there is, it is irrelevant which
measurement is used since they can be correlated. Yes, I've read

Jean

Scott's explanation at
http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_Theo.htm#Scott . It's still not
clear. What is the formula, if it's known?

2. I used to "feed" the machine $300 at a time and start to play. I
now "feed" $100 at a time. Does this make any difference in the

Theo?

I get from Jean's note above that it may play a role....

3. If "Theo" is the basis for comps, why do the new Wolf/Sag cards
state that one needs to "Earn XXXX points every 6 months to

maintain

YYYY Club membership"?

Regards,

Ted

> I have my doubts about all these changes. The casino rates folks
based on theo (with an
> exception for large total losses) Points may be points-- but

theo

is, well, king. Yes, Theo
> dropped a bit.. but not 50%. With the reduction in points, the
casino keeps more for the
> same theo (play)... so in theory they should comp you more, all
other things being equal--
> but they don't since they now offer free play /points and all

other

···

things are not equal.
> IMO, the drop in points is (partially) offset by the free
play/points-- depending how you use
> yours. The sag/sachem status is another thing entirely-- and I'd
bet it is theo based. Finding
> out the theo requirements for each level will be valuable. Then
we could determine how
> much play was necessary for each level. Until that actually
happens, my play will be based on
> the free-play/points... and I'll likely drop from sachem (wolf)
all the way down to wolf
> sagamore. Oh well. Someone ask there host what the theo
requirements are...
>

#9

Could the RF I hit in January [$4K on DB upright] have affected my
theo, and therefore other perks? Any idea how much?

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "mel3dmdmsncom"
<mel3dmd@...> wrote:

---There is no ratio between points and theo. Since Sept every
machine is rated differently by how much it pays out. The bartops

are

around 5% and the pickum is around 3.5% The slots vary depending

on

machine but is in the range of 6-9%. Points accumulate differently
depending on denomination and on the VP game you are playing. The
only way to correlate points to theo is by playing the same machines
(JOB or Pickum) and doing the math. i.e 30g coin in on $1 JOB

equals

270 points and a theo of around 1500. Change machines and games and
it is impossible to figure out. It doesn't matter if you put in

$100

or $1000. Since I only play JOB I have been able to figure out my
theo with 1% by using my coin in times 5%.
Hope this helps
Mel

In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Ted Sohonyay"
<Freedom_Fighter56@> wrote:
>
> Based upon the response below, I have a few questions:
>
> 1. Is there a formulaeic expression [a straightforward formula]
> between theo and MS points? If there is, it is irrelevant which
> measurement is used since they can be correlated. Yes, I've read
Jean
> Scott's explanation at
> http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_Theo.htm#Scott . It's still not
> clear. What is the formula, if it's known?
>
> 2. I used to "feed" the machine $300 at a time and start to play.

I

> now "feed" $100 at a time. Does this make any difference in the
Theo?
> I get from Jean's note above that it may play a role....
>
> 3. If "Theo" is the basis for comps, why do the new Wolf/Sag

cards

> state that one needs to "Earn XXXX points every 6 months to
maintain
> YYYY Club membership"?
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
>
> > I have my doubts about all these changes. The casino rates

folks

> based on theo (with an
> > exception for large total losses) Points may be points-- but
theo
> is, well, king. Yes, Theo
> > dropped a bit.. but not 50%. With the reduction in points, the
> casino keeps more for the
> > same theo (play)... so in theory they should comp you more,

all

> other things being equal--
> > but they don't since they now offer free play /points and all
other
> things are not equal.
> > IMO, the drop in points is (partially) offset by the free
> play/points-- depending how you use
> > yours. The sag/sachem status is another thing entirely-- and

I'd

> bet it is theo based. Finding
> > out the theo requirements for each level will be valuable.

Then

> we could determine how
> > much play was necessary for each level. Until that actually
> happens, my play will be based on
> > the free-play/points... and I'll likely drop from sachem

(wolf)

···

> all the way down to wolf
> > sagamore. Oh well. Someone ask there host what the theo
> requirements are...
> >
>

#10

probably not..theo is theoretical (what you should be losing) not what you actually lost...Casinos look at theo because it is longer term, we all experience short term ups and downs (wins losses) but over the long haul the casino always wins.

Ted Sohonyay <Freedom_Fighter56@hotmail.com> wrote: Could the RF I hit in January [$4K on DB upright] have affected my
theo, and therefore other perks? Any idea how much?

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "mel3dmdmsncom"
<mel3dmd@...> wrote:
>
> ---There is no ratio between points and theo. Since Sept every
> machine is rated differently by how much it pays out. The bartops
are
> around 5% and the pickum is around 3.5% The slots vary depending
on
> machine but is in the range of 6-9%. Points accumulate differently
> depending on denomination and on the VP game you are playing. The
> only way to correlate points to theo is by playing the same machines
> (JOB or Pickum) and doing the math. i.e 30g coin in on $1 JOB
equals
> 270 points and a theo of around 1500. Change machines and games and
> it is impossible to figure out. It doesn't matter if you put in
$100
> or $1000. Since I only play JOB I have been able to figure out my
> theo with 1% by using my coin in times 5%.
> Hope this helps
> Mel
>
>
>
> In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Ted Sohonyay"
> <Freedom_Fighter56@> wrote:
> >
> > Based upon the response below, I have a few questions:
> >
> > 1. Is there a formulaeic expression [a straightforward formula]
> > between theo and MS points? If there is, it is irrelevant which
> > measurement is used since they can be correlated. Yes, I've read
> Jean
> > Scott's explanation at
> > http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_Theo.htm#Scott . It's still not
> > clear. What is the formula, if it's known?
> >
> > 2. I used to "feed" the machine $300 at a time and start to play.
I
> > now "feed" $100 at a time. Does this make any difference in the
> Theo?
> > I get from Jean's note above that it may play a role....
> >
> > 3. If "Theo" is the basis for comps, why do the new Wolf/Sag
cards
> > state that one needs to "Earn XXXX points every 6 months to
> maintain
> > YYYY Club membership"?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ted
> >
> > > I have my doubts about all these changes. The casino rates
folks
> > based on theo (with an
> > > exception for large total losses) Points may be points-- but
> theo
> > is, well, king. Yes, Theo
> > > dropped a bit.. but not 50%. With the reduction in points, the
> > casino keeps more for the
> > > same theo (play)... so in theory they should comp you more,
all
> > other things being equal--
> > > but they don't since they now offer free play /points and all
> other
> > things are not equal.
> > > IMO, the drop in points is (partially) offset by the free
> > play/points-- depending how you use
> > > yours. The sag/sachem status is another thing entirely-- and
I'd
> > bet it is theo based. Finding
> > > out the theo requirements for each level will be valuable.
Then
> > we could determine how
> > > much play was necessary for each level. Until that actually
> > happens, my play will be based on
> > > the free-play/points... and I'll likely drop from sachem
(wolf)

···

> all the way down to wolf

> > > sagamore. Oh well. Someone ask there host what the theo
> > requirements are...
> > >
> >
>

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#11

--- Hitting a royal makes no diffeence at all. Dori and I hit 5
royals in a 4 month period and my host told me it makes no
difference. My card was uograded from Sachem to Sachem wolf (now know
as club sachem) during that time period.
I got a new parking card with my new sachem card but Dori didn't get
one with her sag card. Did any of you old time Sags get a new parking
card?
Thanks
Mel

In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Ted Sohonyay"
<Freedom_Fighter56@...> wrote:

Could the RF I hit in January [$4K on DB upright] have affected my
theo, and therefore other perks? Any idea how much?

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "mel3dmdmsncom"
<mel3dmd@> wrote:
>
> ---There is no ratio between points and theo. Since Sept every
> machine is rated differently by how much it pays out. The bartops
are
> around 5% and the pickum is around 3.5% The slots vary depending
on
> machine but is in the range of 6-9%. Points accumulate

differently

> depending on denomination and on the VP game you are playing. The
> only way to correlate points to theo is by playing the same

machines

> (JOB or Pickum) and doing the math. i.e 30g coin in on $1 JOB
equals
> 270 points and a theo of around 1500. Change machines and games

and

> it is impossible to figure out. It doesn't matter if you put in
$100
> or $1000. Since I only play JOB I have been able to figure out my
> theo with 1% by using my coin in times 5%.
> Hope this helps
> Mel
>
>
>
> In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Ted Sohonyay"
> <Freedom_Fighter56@> wrote:
> >
> > Based upon the response below, I have a few questions:
> >
> > 1. Is there a formulaeic expression [a straightforward formula]
> > between theo and MS points? If there is, it is irrelevant

which

> > measurement is used since they can be correlated. Yes, I've

read

> Jean
> > Scott's explanation at
> > http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_Theo.htm#Scott . It's still

not

> > clear. What is the formula, if it's known?
> >
> > 2. I used to "feed" the machine $300 at a time and start to

play.

I
> > now "feed" $100 at a time. Does this make any difference in the
> Theo?
> > I get from Jean's note above that it may play a role....
> >
> > 3. If "Theo" is the basis for comps, why do the new Wolf/Sag
cards
> > state that one needs to "Earn XXXX points every 6 months to
> maintain
> > YYYY Club membership"?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ted
> >
> > > I have my doubts about all these changes. The casino rates
folks
> > based on theo (with an
> > > exception for large total losses) Points may be points-- but
> theo
> > is, well, king. Yes, Theo
> > > dropped a bit.. but not 50%. With the reduction in points,

the

···

> > casino keeps more for the
> > > same theo (play)... so in theory they should comp you more,
all
> > other things being equal--
> > > but they don't since they now offer free play /points and all
> other
> > things are not equal.
> > > IMO, the drop in points is (partially) offset by the free
> > play/points-- depending how you use
> > > yours. The sag/sachem status is another thing entirely-- and
I'd
> > bet it is theo based. Finding
> > > out the theo requirements for each level will be valuable.
Then
> > we could determine how
> > > much play was necessary for each level. Until that actually
> > happens, my play will be based on
> > > the free-play/points... and I'll likely drop from sachem
(wolf)
> > all the way down to wolf
> > > sagamore. Oh well. Someone ask there host what the theo
> > requirements are...
> > >
> >
>

#12

-I only got the sagamore card but no parking card .Can I still use
the old one?

- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "mel3dmdmsncom"
<mel3dmd@...> wrote:

--- Hitting a royal makes no diffeence at all. Dori and I hit 5
royals in a 4 month period and my host told me it makes no
difference. My card was uograded from Sachem to Sachem wolf (now

know

as club sachem) during that time period.
I got a new parking card with my new sachem card but Dori didn't

get

one with her sag card. Did any of you old time Sags get a new

parking

card?
Thanks
Mel

In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Ted Sohonyay"
<Freedom_Fighter56@> wrote:
>
> Could the RF I hit in January [$4K on DB upright] have affected

my

> theo, and therefore other perks? Any idea how much?
>
>
> --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "mel3dmdmsncom"
> <mel3dmd@> wrote:
> >
> > ---There is no ratio between points and theo. Since Sept every
> > machine is rated differently by how much it pays out. The

bartops

> are
> > around 5% and the pickum is around 3.5% The slots vary

depending

> on
> > machine but is in the range of 6-9%. Points accumulate
differently
> > depending on denomination and on the VP game you are playing.

The

> > only way to correlate points to theo is by playing the same
machines
> > (JOB or Pickum) and doing the math. i.e 30g coin in on $1 JOB
> equals
> > 270 points and a theo of around 1500. Change machines and

games

and
> > it is impossible to figure out. It doesn't matter if you put

in

> $100
> > or $1000. Since I only play JOB I have been able to figure out

my

> > theo with 1% by using my coin in times 5%.
> > Hope this helps
> > Mel
> >
> >
> >
> > In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Ted Sohonyay"
> > <Freedom_Fighter56@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Based upon the response below, I have a few questions:
> > >
> > > 1. Is there a formulaeic expression [a straightforward

formula]

> > > between theo and MS points? If there is, it is irrelevant
which
> > > measurement is used since they can be correlated. Yes, I've
read
> > Jean
> > > Scott's explanation at
> > > http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_Theo.htm#Scott . It's

still

not
> > > clear. What is the formula, if it's known?
> > >
> > > 2. I used to "feed" the machine $300 at a time and start to
play.
> I
> > > now "feed" $100 at a time. Does this make any difference in

the

> > Theo?
> > > I get from Jean's note above that it may play a role....
> > >
> > > 3. If "Theo" is the basis for comps, why do the new Wolf/Sag
> cards
> > > state that one needs to "Earn XXXX points every 6 months to
> > maintain
> > > YYYY Club membership"?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Ted
> > >
> > > > I have my doubts about all these changes. The casino

rates

> folks
> > > based on theo (with an
> > > > exception for large total losses) Points may be points--

but

> > theo
> > > is, well, king. Yes, Theo
> > > > dropped a bit.. but not 50%. With the reduction in

points,

the
> > > casino keeps more for the
> > > > same theo (play)... so in theory they should comp you

more,

> all
> > > other things being equal--
> > > > but they don't since they now offer free play /points and

all

> > other
> > > things are not equal.
> > > > IMO, the drop in points is (partially) offset by the free
> > > play/points-- depending how you use
> > > > yours. The sag/sachem status is another thing entirely--

and

> I'd
> > > bet it is theo based. Finding
> > > > out the theo requirements for each level will be

valuable.

> Then
> > > we could determine how
> > > > much play was necessary for each level. Until that

actually

···

> > > happens, my play will be based on
> > > > the free-play/points... and I'll likely drop from sachem
> (wolf)
> > > all the way down to wolf
> > > > sagamore. Oh well. Someone ask there host what the theo
> > > requirements are...
> > > >
> > >
> >
>