we go to vegas 3-4 times a year - play vp and blackjack. i count
cards at blackjack and have absolutely no problem betting $50 a hand
when it's warranted. i know basic strategy for video poker and play
it well for a couple of versions. i have always played 25 cent vp
and here is my question: why can't i go up to $1 vp? as above, i
have no qualms about putting out $$ when i need to but for some
reason i cannot get myself to play a $1 machine. i'm not sure
whether i play too fast or what??? have anyone else ever had this
problem?
crazy question
I was afraid of $ machines for a long time, too. There's some
psychology involved that I don't get. But, somehow, that fear just
ebbed away. Maybe it comes from having several $1000+ loosing
sessions on dollars. And, then several $1000+ winning sessions. For
me it was just getting comfortable with the larger swings on $s vs.
quarters.
Once you start playing $s it's hard to turn back.
Gak
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bool9898" <bool9898@y...> wrote:
we go to vegas 3-4 times a year - play vp and blackjack. i count
cards at blackjack and have absolutely no problem betting $50 a hand
when it's warranted. i know basic strategy for video poker and play
it well for a couple of versions. i have always played 25 cent vp
and here is my question: why can't i go up to $1 vp? as above, i
have no qualms about putting out $$ when i need to but for some
reason i cannot get myself to play a $1 machine. i'm not sure
whether i play too fast or what??? have anyone else ever had this
problem?
The average VP player can easily go at 600 hands per hour. Your
speed of course, may be more or less. So, at $5 per hand (max coin),
you'd be pumping in $3000 per hour. Blackjack plays 40-60 hands per
hour, so you'd have to be a regular $50/hand player to match the
3K/hour.
VP is more streaky than BJ so you're going to deal with larger swings
than BJ.
It's all a matter of being comfortable with how much you're risking.
If you're not comfortable, you're not going to play the way you're
supposed to (or at the very least, the way you really want to).
Kil
I was afraid of $ machines for a long time, too. There's some
psychology involved that I don't get. But, somehow, that fear just
ebbed away. Maybe it comes from having several $1000+ loosing
sessions on dollars. And, then several $1000+ winning sessions.
For
me it was just getting comfortable with the larger swings on $s vs.
quarters.Once you start playing $s it's hard to turn back.
Gak
> we go to vegas 3-4 times a year - play vp and blackjack. i count
> cards at blackjack and have absolutely no problem betting $50 a
hand
> when it's warranted. i know basic strategy for video poker and
play
> it well for a couple of versions. i have always played 25 cent
vp
> and here is my question: why can't i go up to $1 vp? as above,
i
> have no qualms about putting out $$ when i need to but for some
> reason i cannot get myself to play a $1 machine. i'm not sure
> whether i play too fast or what??? have anyone else ever had
this
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "wildroyal2004" <wildroyal@c...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bool9898" <bool9898@y...> wrote:
> problem?
bool9898 wrote:
we go to vegas 3-4 times a year - play vp and blackjack. i count
cards at blackjack and have absolutely no problem betting $50 a hand
when it's warranted. i know basic strategy for video poker and play
it well for a couple of versions. i have always played 25 cent vp
and here is my question: why can't i go up to $1 vp? as above, i
have no qualms about putting out $$ when i need to but for some
reason i cannot get myself to play a $1 machine. i'm not sure
whether i play too fast or what??? have anyone else ever had this
problem?
Kil's pretty much dead on with his reply in identifying the variables
that are most pertinent to your question.
A lot of it is simply a matter of familiarity with the swings of the
game. Keep in mind that for vp, different game variants involve
sharply different volatility levels. But you're familar enough with
that from your quarter play. It's just that even if you can make the
leap to $1 play intellectually, a "fear of heights" equivalent kicks
in when you make the climb to buck play.
The real key is to make sure that you're well grounded in your
expectations. That gives you something to hold on to during the
rougher play until you have a better gut feel for the swings. For
that, you have everything you need from direct experience.
···
------
I expect that most players guage play comfort as a function of how
much they have at risk in any given hour (even if different games
behave quite differently over the longer term).
You know what you're comfortable with in your blackjack play so it's a
simple matter of matching that loss risk in your vp play.
Fortunately, you don't have to approach that trial and error at higher
denominations. You can take some time and track your hourly quarter
losses for various games and select the game and denomination to which
to boost your play based upon your quarter experience.
This won't necessarily make the downside at the higher denomination
any more comfortable on the spot. But with a reasonable expectation
of what to expect in general, you can develop the same patience with
dry streaks that you have with blackjack.
------
I expect that your desire to move up in denomination is to improve
your lot in the casino when it comes to comps/promos/offers. I can
respect that. Keep in mind that you can potentially get a lot of
similar milage from multiplay (3-play/5-play in particular) with
considerably reduced risk. Of course, if good games are offered only
at single line quarter and dollar denominations your choices are limited.
In any case, when it comes to dollar play, you have to be prepared for
short run downswings of $10K-$15K (at least) if playing Jacks. (I
won't even broach the topic of true ROR bankroll requirements.) Move
to DB and you'd better allow for more like $15K-$20K -- keeping in
mind that when the dry streaks hit, the losses can rack up fast and
furious. This simple truth may settle things alone ;(
- Harry
we go to vegas 3-4 times a year - play vp and blackjack. i count
cards at blackjack and have absolutely no problem betting $50 a
hand
when it's warranted. i know basic strategy for video poker and
play
it well for a couple of versions. i have always played 25 cent vp
and here is my question: why can't i go up to $1 vp? as above, i
have no qualms about putting out $$ when i need to but for some
reason i cannot get myself to play a $1 machine. i'm not sure
whether i play too fast or what??? have anyone else ever had
this
problem?
Your misgivings are valid. VP is more volatile and a bad losing
streak could easily cause significant losses. If your bankroll is
sufficient to withstand these losses, then I would suggest expanding
your comfort zone first. Play .50 or triple play quarters first. Once
you get comfortable at that level, then try the $ games for a short
time on 2-3 trips. If at any time you feel uncomfortable, then just
stop and go back to the level where you feel comfortable.
Dick
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bool9898" <bool9898@y...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:
Keep in mind that you can potentially get a lot of
similar milage from multiplay (3-play/5-play in particular) with
considerably reduced risk.
I remember reading somewhere that volatility was increased in
multiplay mode. In other words, 100-play Job 9/6 has a higher
volatility than single-line JoB, even when the bet is the same
(e.g., 100-play at the 10-cent level has the same bet per play as $2
single-line). I never understood why. The explanation given, as I
recall, was along the lines that a bad initial draw could hurt you
over many more hands in multiplay, while a bad initial draw only
hurts you in one hand in single-line. My gut tells me that the more
hands you play, the closer you get to the statistical average, so
playing 100-play (assuming the same paytable) would end up with less
volatility. Could someone break this down for those of us who "ride
the short bus"?
sinatrafan12000 wrote:
I remember reading somewhere that volatility was increased in
multiplay mode. In other words, 100-play Job 9/6 has a higher
volatility than single-line JoB, even when the bet is the same
(e.g., 100-play at the 10-cent level has the same bet per play as $2
single-line). I never understood why. The explanation given, as I
recall, was along the lines that a bad initial draw could hurt you
over many more hands in multiplay, while a bad initial draw only
hurts you in one hand in single-line. My gut tells me that the more
hands you play, the closer you get to the statistical average, so
playing 100-play (assuming the same paytable) would end up with less
volatility. Could someone break this down for those of us who "ride
the short bus"?
You've expressed the general principal correctly, but the details are
a bit muddled.
The explanation you state as to why there's an increase in multiplay
volatility vs. single play is accurate -- but it applies to play at
the same denomination. Playing $10K through on $.25 3-play exposes
the player to greater volatility than $10K on $.25 single line.
As the explanation suggests, for every $3.75 of coin-in, the 3 lines
of single play are fully dispersed whereas the 3 lines in multiplay
are all dependent on one initial deal. Get a bad deal and all 3 draws
will be negatively skewed (and, conversely, few people need even one
hand on which to count their instances of 3 successive quads in single
play, but fondly remember dealt multiplay quads :).
When you start looking at a constant bet per play for single line vs.
multiplay, your gut feeling is dead on -- multiplay disperses that
wager and presents less risk. Say we're looking at $.25 4-play
(they're largely defunct now, but "Lucky Draw" machines offered this)
vs. $1 single line. Both have a $5 wager per play. In $1 play, after
the initial deal everything's riding on a single draw. The 4-play
disperses the results among 4 draws and reasonably can be expected to
produce a result that more closely approximates the EV of the initial
deal/hold.
If you're quantitatively inclined (or willing to risk a little math),
Jazbo Burns website (http://jazbo.com/) has a pretty neat discussion
of n-play variance (click on "Video Poker"/"n-play bankroll").
There's some other interesting stuff there -- check out the
"volatility" discussion. (Volatility is a game aspect quite distinct
from variance, which is a single point descriptor of long-term game
behavior. When we think of game volatility, we tend to be a lot more
concerned about what happens over the course of a session(s) rather
than our lifetime experience.)
- Harry
we go to vegas 3-4 times a year - play vp and blackjack. i count
cards at blackjack and have absolutely no problem betting $50 a
hand
when it's warranted. i know basic strategy for video poker and
play
it well for a couple of versions. i have always played 25 cent vp
and here is my question: why can't i go up to $1 vp? as above, i
have no qualms about putting out $$ when i need to but for some
reason i cannot get myself to play a $1 machine. i'm not sure
whether i play too fast or what??? have anyone else ever had
this
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bool9898" <bool9898@y...> wrote:
problem?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If the risk is too high then gambling will destroy you-emotionally
as well as financially; if the level of risk is too low, gambling
would be boring."
--The Captain
"It is better to have gambled and lost, then never to have gambled
at all."
--VP Pappy
Hi!
Why worry about it? VP is supposed to be fun. That is the first
rule that we learn. If it isn't fun, don't play.
You seem to enjoy playing $0.25 VP. GREAT!
If you feel that you are not comfortable playing dollar VP. So what!
Just my $0.02.
GOOD LUCK!
.....bl
we go to vegas 3-4 times a year - play vp and blackjack. i count
cards at blackjack and have absolutely no problem betting $50 a
hand
when it's warranted. i know basic strategy for video poker and
play
it well for a couple of versions. i have always played 25 cent vp
and here is my question: why can't i go up to $1 vp? as above, i
have no qualms about putting out $$ when i need to but for some
reason i cannot get myself to play a $1 machine. i'm not sure
whether i play too fast or what??? have anyone else ever had
this
Harry -
Thanks for your prompt reply and excellent explanation. I
appreciate the clarification. FWIW, your posts are always
instructive and have been instrumental in saving me untold thousands
of dollars.
SF12K