vpFREE2 Forums

CP - anything left?

#21

> >

I > Watching this entire operation certainly convinced me that they

know

exactly what is in their inventory at any given time.

The other strange thing that happened to me during this trip was

that

while I was playing a Caesars change person came up to me and said
hello Mr. Jones how are you today. Just wanted to let you know

that

we are greeting some of our special guests today and we just hope

you

are having a good time" or something to that affect. After which
she called into her radio and said "yes sir, I greeted the guest

and

everything is fine".

I found it a little disconcerting that they tracked me down to a
specific machine and greeted me by name. I guess their computer
system is a little better than we thought.

For years now, my host at Ballys AC has been able to track me down to
a specific machine.
  What you should have told her is that you weren't having a "good
time" and then complained about the downgrades.

    Larry F.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "patandamy3" <patandamy3@...> wrote:

#22

- it was published!

Bob Dancer, Casino Player, 10/06. It should be archived on their
website in a few months, or you can e-mail them, maybe they'll send
you a copy of the article.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Jigger Woodruff <bayfieldkent@...> wrote:

I don't subscribe to CP - who was this columnist? Can't be a secret

#23

This seems to confirm my original comments that a modern casino
should (and probably does) have a database showing every machine on
the floor. In the Caesars case, it would merely be a mouse-click to
bring up all the 25c JOB, print out the floor map, and then send the
tech army on a seek and destroy mission.

In the comments below, it would appear that Caesars has also decided
to change the quasi-Game King platform on some of the machines to
just a single game that matches the faceplate on the machine. Of
course, all these machines had JOB, but I wonder why Caesars would
remove all of the other games on the machine, since most were poor
paytables.

I was at Caesar's during part of the downgrade. I will tell you

what

I observed and you can draw your own conclusions.

There were 4 technicians that were working on the machines. The
first tech was walking around with a list of machines. He would
match the list to the number on the machine and he would turn it

off

once the player left. The second tech had a stack of printouts.

he

would place the printout in the tray of a turned off machine.

From

what I could gather, the printout listed the current setup for the
machine as well as the new setup. The other two techs did the
reprogramming. I watched while he reprogrammed the machine next

to

me. The screen had a menu where he could choose which games would

be

presented. He went through and removed all the games that did

not

match the faceplate on the machine. The machine in question was

an

aces and faces machine so he chose that game and activated it for

the

machine. Once he chose the game, he was presented with another
screen that allowed him to choose the payout for the machine.

Next

to each line it had the actual return percentages displayed.

There

were 6 or 7 options listed and he chose the lowest one ( 96.??
couldn't quite see the last two digits ).

Watching this entire operation certainly convinced me that they

know

exactly what is in their inventory at any given time.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@>
wrote:
>
> Charles wrote:
> > Listing the machines doesn't make a difference; any casino can
quickly
> > print out every machine on the floor offering 9/6 JOB, and

make

the
> > appropriate paytable changes during any evening they wish.
>
> I differ with your take. Even in light of the discussion on this
> group, no casino is likely to scour their inventory for such
machines
> from a general reference. The cost/trouble, relative to the play
> economics, isn't warranted. Besides, such discussion is

notoriously

> inaccurate (to varying degrees) and the casino might well find
itself
> on a wild goose chase.
>
> However, if you list the specific machines here, you might as

well

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "patandamy3" <patandamy3@...> wrote:

> march into the casino and put a big sign on them.
>
> - Harry

#24

Charles wrote:

This seems to confirm my original comments that a modern casino
should (and probably does) have a database showing every machine on
the floor. In the Caesars case, it would merely be a mouse-click to
bring up all the 25c JOB, print out the floor map, and then send the
tech army on a seek and destroy mission.

When I spoke of the casino being unlikely "to scour their inventory for
such machines from a general reference" (in response to your
suggestion that it shouldn't matter if a particular anomalously strong
machine is specificly identified here), I didn't intend to imply that
a casino wouldn't have an electronic inventory of machines and
paytables. They may even be able to poll the machines electronically
to develop such an inventory.

However, anecdotal experience has shown time and again that either
there are limitation in how the casino can tap that data (with it
likely being cumbersome for some tasks), or that they simply don't
take advantage of the full system capabilities that are available.

Whatever the case, there's absolutely no question that variables such
as paytables, cb and comp rates, and even available denominations for
play are occasionally set to values other than intended by the casino.
This these unintended settings often last for weeks and months, until
someone (or group) brings the casino's attention to the mis-setting.

Sometimes that attention is brought through a strong promotion which
makes a particular machine an especially strong play, and players line
up 3 deep for machine time. Sometimes a hapless player will brag
about the situation to an attendent or other employee.

···

------

With respect to discussion of specific machines on this group, it's
questionable whether casino management takes the time to monitor this
group. However, because an unintended play strongly favorable to a
player can cost the casino $000's in a short period of time during a
promotion (or over a longer period of time otherwise), I would risk
erring on the conservative side and suggest that there's ample
motivation for such monitoring. And, even if this group isn't on
casino management's radar, there's bound to be some small-time
employee who thinks he can score points by bringing such a situation
to management's attention.

Assuming that there is monitoring to some degree, the mere mention
that there is a full pay machine at a given casino (without specific
identification) is unlikely to send anyone scrambling to locate it
(unless we're talking about a $5 FPDW, for example). As suggested
above, I simply believe that the casinos either do not have a ready
means by which to locate it short of scavenging lists manually for it,
or lack the expertise by which to do so electronically - even if the
means is available. Among other things, this gives rise to the
possibility that they might try to locate the machine, fail, and then
be uncertain if the shortcoming was on their part or that the report
was spurious.

Whatever the real facts, if you specifically identify the machine here
and its set up was unintended, you've sent the casino on that 10
minute "seek and detroy mission", with a 100% success rate.

That said, from past experience it's apparent that this argument can
be made until one is blue in the face and some will still reject it.

- Harry

#25

Just ruminating a bit on what HP has said, this certainly puts us all in a quandry, at least it
does me. We are here to share information (as well as to learn), but I guess, really, it is
only to share SOME information.

We can talk about things in general and in theory, whether it be about ROR, or bankroll, or
strategy. However, when it comes to specific "inventory" at specific casinos, we are on
really thin ice. Most often it seems, it is really best not to share that kind of information
here. This is the only way that "accidental" good machines can be available for use over
longer periods of time. Most of us now, I suppose, will be spending at least some of our
time, during a trip, "trolling" the casinos, hoping to find a "gem".

I think (and it is only my opinion) one should be relatively hard-nosed about where one
does draw the line, in terms of sharing "inventory" information. If it is "too good to be
true", it is probably best to keep it to yourself, and enjoy the "find".

Is this being too selfish, and not enough altruistic?

.....bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

Whatever the real facts, if you specifically identify the machine here
and its set up was unintended, you've sent the casino on that 10
minute "seek and detroy mission", with a 100% success rate.

- Harry

#26

I am a Harrah's executive and forward anything I think is costing us money
to the appropriate parties.

Cogno

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
lfcmja2000
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 10:23 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: CP - anything left?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Randy C" <randyc@...> wrote:

Come on now. You blindly insist no one is on this board from Harrahs.

Why

won't you blindly buy my property? It's really nice. Honest.

I didn't "blindly insist." I just said show me some proof.

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#27

lfcmja2000 wrote:

I didn't "blindly insist." I just said show me some proof.

Whether or not some employee of Harrah's, or any other casino, cruises
this group isn't of specific importance. What is at the heart of the
matter where it comes to play disclosure is the likely consequence.

Here's an acid test for you: "Out" a $1 play with a 2% or higher EV,
all cash economic factors included. I expect a least one of 3 things
will happen:

1 - A casino exec will get wind of the play (either through their
montior of the group, or via a "wannabe exec" ( e.g. slot attendent -
that passes on the word) and it will be weakened or shut down within
30 days.

2 - Players will flock en masse to the play, some forming teams that
play a machine around the clock. That in turn will draw management's
attention who closely review the machine's hold, with the ultimate
consequence of #1.

3 - You'll find a pair of crutches handy in getting around for the
next 3 weeks.

Any of these are cause to be conservative when discussing
extraordinarily attractive plays. (Not that you, in partcular, need
be told that.)

- Harry

#28

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Cogno Scienti" <cognoscienti@...>
wrote:

Do me a favor will ya? Can you put together some sort
of brochure that explains how your company is so
successful that you aquired CP and several other
properties with a model that does not reward
advantage players? I'm tired of hearing them
whine, while you -- microsoftlike -- take over the
gambling world with an inferior product.

P.S. I know you're joking. I wish I was.

I am a Harrah's executive and forward anything I think is costing

us money

to the appropriate parties.

Cogno

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On

Behalf Of

lfcmja2000
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 10:23 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: CP - anything left?

>
> Come on now. You blindly insist no one is on this board from

Harrahs.

···

-----Original Message-----
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Randy C" <randyc@> wrote:
Why
> won't you blindly buy my property? It's really nice. Honest.

I didn't "blindly insist." I just said show me some proof.

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#29

Excellent. Please also forward this to all appropriate parties at Harrah's:
Bite me.

Chandler

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
Cogno Scienti
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 3:33 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: CP - anything left?

I am a Harrah's executive and forward anything I think is costing us money
to the appropriate parties.

Cogno

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
lfcmja2000
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 10:23 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: CP - anything left?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Randy C" <randyc@...> wrote:

Come on now. You blindly insist no one is on this board from Harrahs.

Why

won't you blindly buy my property? It's really nice. Honest.

I didn't "blindly insist." I just said show me some proof.

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#30

NO

#31

I don't think if they break both knees, that you can walk with
crutches.

You might need a wheelchair.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

3 - You'll find a pair of crutches handy in getting around for the
next 3 weeks.

#32

Chandler wrote:

Excellent. Please also forward this to all appropriate parties at
Harrah's: Bite me.

Uh, I thought they just took a pretty good chomp.

- H.