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Conflict of interest/ purpose by "Experts" ??!!

#21

You raised my curiosity, so I went to Amazon.com and did some research. The site ranks all books based on their historical sales, and is probably the only way that anyone can compare results. Here's what I came up with (in order from best to worst selling):
   
                    Author Title Amazon Rank Ford, James Harrison How To Gamble At The Casinos Without Getting Plucked Like A Chicken paperback 5,422 Paymar, Dan Video Poker: Optimum Play paperback 22,329 Rubin, Max Comp City: A Guide to Free Casino Vacations (2nd Edition) paperback 70,802 Dancer, Bob Million Dollar Video Poker paperback 91,932 Grochowski, John The Video Poker Answer Book: How to Attack Variations on a Casino Favorite paperback 93,912 Scoblete, Frank Victory at Video Poker hardcover 122,725 Wong, Stanford Professional Video Poker paperback 201,754 Fleming, Roger Win at Video Poker: The Guide to Beating the Poker Machines paperback 220,495 Scott, Jean The Frugal Gambler paperback 269,529 Dancer, Bob Sex, Lies, And Video Poker: An Erotic Novel About Gamblling paperback 278,838 Scott, Jean More Frugal Gambling paperback 309,542 Royer, Victor Powerful Profits from
Video Poker paperback 399,335 Singer, Rob The Undeniable Truth About Video Poker paperback 797,536 Patrick, John John Patrick's Video Poker: The Complete Guide to Playing and Winning paperback 959,624

  It would interesting to see sales figures for Paymar's, Dancer's, & Wong's VP books compared vs so-called VP experts like Patrick, Scoblete's, Singer, etc. Based on my visits to bookstores (other than Gamblers in LV), I see more of Patrick & Co than Paymar & Co. Messeur Brumar may have a point. :slight_smile:
  Bob

brumar_lv <brumar_lv@yahoo.com> wrote:
  > Second, I don't think VP experts have much impact on the general public. The vast majority of players seem very uninformed. Most have never read anything about paytables, strategy, or comps, and could care less. There are only 2-4 good VP books, and it's my >impression they sell poorly.

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#22

Sorry, my table didn't come out right. Here are the rankings again in a slightly different format (which I hope makes it more readable). Again, the rankings go from best sales volumes to lowest sales volumes:
   
  Ford, James Harrison How To Gamble At The Casinos Without Getting Plucked Like A Chicken paperback 5,422
   
  Paymar, Dan Video Poker: Optimum Play paperback 22,329
   
  Rubin, Max Comp City: A Guide to Free Casino Vacations (2nd Edition) paperback 70,802
   
  Dancer, Bob Million Dollar Video Poker paperback 91,932
   
  Grochowski, John The Video Poker Answer Book: How to Attack Variations on a Casino Favorite paperback 93,912
   
  Scoblete, Frank Victory at Video Poker hardcover 122,725
   
  Wong, Stanford Professional Video Poker paperback 201,754
   
  Fleming, Roger Win at Video Poker: The Guide to Beating the Poker Machines paperback 220,495
   
  Scott, Jean The Frugal Gambler paperback 269,529
   
  Dancer, Bob Sex, Lies, And Video Poker: An Erotic Novel About Gamblling paperback 278,838
   
  Scott, Jean More Frugal Gambling paperback 309,542
   
  Royer, Victor Powerful Profits from
Video Poker paperback 399,335
   
  Singer, Rob The Undeniable Truth About Video Poker paperback 797,536
   
  Patrick, John John Patrick's Video Poker: The Complete Guide to Playing and Winning paperback 959,624

  You raised my curiosity, so I went to Amazon.com and did some research. The site ranks all books based on their historical sales, and is probably the only way that anyone can compare results. Here's what I came up with (in order from best to worst selling):
   
                    Author Title Amazon Rank Ford, James Harrison How To Gamble At The Casinos Without Getting Plucked Like A Chicken paperback 5,422 Paymar, Dan Video Poker: Optimum Play paperback 22,329 Rubin, Max Comp City: A Guide to Free Casino Vacations (2nd Edition) paperback 70,802 Dancer, Bob Million Dollar Video Poker paperback 91,932 Grochowski, John The Video Poker Answer Book: How to Attack Variations on a Casino Favorite paperback 93,912 Scoblete, Frank Victory at Video Poker hardcover 122,725 Wong, Stanford Professional Video Poker paperback 201,754 Fleming, Roger Win at Video Poker: The Guide to Beating the Poker Machines paperback 220,495 Scott, Jean The Frugal Gambler paperback 269,529 Dancer, Bob Sex, Lies, And Video Poker: An Erotic Novel About Gamblling paperback 278,838 Scott, Jean More Frugal Gambling paperback 309,542 Royer, Victor Powerful Profits from
Video Poker paperback 399,335 Singer, Rob The Undeniable Truth About Video Poker paperback 797,536 Patrick, John John Patrick's Video Poker: The Complete Guide to Playing and Winning paperback 959,624

  It would interesting to see sales figures for Paymar's, Dancer's, & Wong's VP books compared vs so-called VP experts like Patrick, Scoblete's, Singer, etc. Based on my visits to bookstores (other than Gamblers in LV), I see more of Patrick & Co than Paymar & Co. Messeur Brumar may have a point. :slight_smile:
  Bob

brumar_lv <brumar_lv@yahoo.com> wrote:
  > Second, I don't think VP experts have much impact on the general public. The vast majority of players seem very uninformed. Most have never read anything about paytables, strategy, or comps, and could care less. There are only 2-4 good VP books, and it's my >impression they sell poorly.

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#23

<<You raised my curiosity, so I went to Amazon.com and did some research.
The site ranks all books based on their historical sales, and is probably
the only way that anyone can compare results.>>

No, that's not how Amazon ranks books. Current sales are weighted heavily.
The exact formula is secret.

Cogno

#24

My statement about how Amazon.com explains their sales rank was that the rankings are based on historical performance. If you want to see their exact text (which corroborates my statement), you can read it for yourself at http://tinyurl.com/fhqew
   
  I don't know how they weight their sales, but speaking to your point, NONE of these books are current. I went back and looked at the year in which each was published, and the years range from 1991 (Wong) to 2004 (Ford, Paymar and Dancer). Because of this, the rankings are probably somewhat accurate - relative to each other. Again, I know that absolute sales data are impossible to come by... Amazon simply gives us an even playing field in which to objectively assess relative performance.

···

Cogno Scienti <cognoscienti@gmail.com> wrote:
  <<You raised my curiosity, so I went to Amazon.com and did some research.
The site ranks all books based on their historical sales, and is probably
the only way that anyone can compare results.>>

No, that's not how Amazon ranks books. Current sales are weighted heavily.
The exact formula is secret.

Cogno

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#25

<<No, that's not how Amazon ranks books. Current sales are weighted heavily.
The exact formula is secret.>>

I'm glad you clarified that. At first I thought the poster meant that those
numbers were the total number of books sold since the book came out. Of
course I knew that wasn't correct since Frugal 1 has sold a lot more copies
than Frugal 2. But that makes sense since it has been out 7 years longer.

Here is what Amazon.com says about this ranking:

<<What Sales Rank Means

                  As an added service for customers, authors, publishers,
artists, labels, and studios, we show how items in our catalog are selling.
The lower the number, the higher the sales for that particular item. The
calculation is based on Amazon.com sales and is updated each hour to reflect
recent and historical sales of every item sold on Amazon.com. We hope you
find the Amazon.com Sales Rank interesting!>>

We authors do find this list interesting - but it really doesn't tell us much of value. This list is more about marketing than the "value" of the book. And remember there are a lot more sales outlets than amazon.com.

The key phrases here are "updated each hour" and "recent AND historical sales." I can tell every time I appear on TV and a book of mine is mentioned. It jumps higher on the list. In fact, after Brad and I were on "Dateline NBC," Frugal 1 jumped to #2 the next morning - I just could not beat that little boy named Harry Potter!!!! I wish my sales were always #2 to that little devil!!!!!

<<Because of this, the rankings are probably somewhat accurate - relative to each other.....Amazon simply gives us an even playing field in which to objectively assess relative performance.

Not really since it depends so much on recent publicity, etc. I have tracked mine over the years and the rankings are all over the chart.

···

________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  Tax time is coming up - groan! "Tax Help
   for the Frugal Gambler" can answer many
   of your questions!

#26

Thanks for the clarification. I really had been under the impression that there was some meaning to the rankings -- again, not in terms of real units sold, but in terms of how total units sold for each book sold through Amazon stacked up to each other. (That is, I thought it was like a giant "bestsellers" list, starting from 1 and going to N, with all historical unit sales counted.)
   
  I didn't mean any disrespect to any of the authors on the list. I've never written a book, much less had one published. There's a tremendous amount of talent "out there" (and here on this board), and I feel fortunate that so many are willing to share their observations, insights and opinions. Even when I don't agree with what I've read, I always appreciate the perspective.
   
  Lainie

  <<No, that's not how Amazon ranks books. Current sales are weighted heavily.
The exact formula is secret.>>

I'm glad you clarified that. At first I thought the poster meant that those
numbers were the total number of books sold since the book came out. Of
course I knew that wasn't correct since Frugal 1 has sold a lot more copies
than Frugal 2. But that makes sense since it has been out 7 years longer.

Here is what Amazon.com says about this ranking:

<<What Sales Rank Means

                  As an added service for customers, authors, publishers,
artists, labels, and studios, we show how items in our catalog are selling.
The lower the number, the higher the sales for that particular item. The
calculation is based on Amazon.com sales and is updated each hour to reflect
recent and historical sales of every item sold on Amazon.com. We hope you
find the Amazon.com Sales Rank interesting!>>

We authors do find this list interesting - but it really doesn't tell us
much of value. This list is more about marketing than the "value" of the
book. And remember there are a lot more sales outlets than amazon.com.

The key phrases here are "updated each hour" and "recent AND historical
sales." I can tell every time I appear on TV and a book of mine is
mentioned. It jumps higher on the list. In fact, after Brad and I were on
"Dateline NBC," Frugal 1 jumped to #2 the next morning - I just could not
beat that little boy named Harry Potter!!!! I wish my sales were always #2
to that little devil!!!!!

<<Because of this, the rankings are probably somewhat accurate - relative to
each other.....Amazon simply gives us an even playing field in which to
objectively assess relative performance.

Not really since it depends so much on recent publicity, etc. I have
tracked mine over the years and the rankings are all over the chart.

···

Jean Scott <QueenofComps@frugalgambler.biz> wrote:

________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  Tax time is coming up - groan! "Tax Help
   for the Frugal Gambler" can answer many
   of your questions!

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#27

I'm glad you clarified that. At first I thought the poster meant

that those numbers were the total number of books sold since the book
came out. Of course I knew that wasn't correct since Frugal 1 has
sold a lot more copies than Frugal 2. But that makes sense since it
has been out 7 years longer.

This has been interesting for me, because I was the one who suggested
that VP books tend to be poor sellers. I may have misjudged this.
There are probably more sales than I imagined. My impression is
partly due to the huge number of Texas Hold-Em books recently
published. Surely, as a group, these have been huge sellers compared
to the VP books, even though more people play VP.

I think you were very wise to focus on the comp aspect of gambling,
as opposed to VP specifically, because every gambler can benefit from
this information. Also, my impression is most people are more
interested in anecdotal information, versus more technical topics
such as strategy tables, bankroll formulas, etc.

I was relieved to see that the books by Singer and Royer are
near the end of the list. I haven't read Singers, but have heard it
isn't very useful. I've read Royers, and it has nothing to redeem
it. I come down very hard on Royer because I hate to see a new VP
player begin with bad advice. Royers book may be better than
nothing, but just barely.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@...> wrote:

#28

Just out of curiosity, how did you run this search?

I keep an eye on the ranks of our books at both Amazon and BN.com.
I'm showing the sales rank of Winning Strategies to be 282,000
(roughly) and I don't see it on your list.

It runs at about 50,000 lately on BN.com.

Keep in mind that not all books are created equally. Books are
published in different ways that can greatly affect the volume and
to what extent they can be sold in a variety of places.

My father chose to keep his self-published and I have honored that.
I'm sure if he had gone thru Huntington Press many years ago the
volume would be far greater. Also, obviously as Winning Strategies
is now rather dated (and if I get some free time, I will put out an
updated version), it's current sales is going to lag behind many of
the newer books.

Please, this is no knock on any book or any other writer in any
way. I'm just curious as to how the list was produced, and to point
out that Amazon is only one source of sales for all the books.

Elliot

Sorry, my table didn't come out right. Here are the rankings

again in a slightly different format (which I hope makes it more
readable). Again, the rankings go from best sales volumes to lowest
sales volumes:

   
  Ford, James Harrison How To Gamble At The Casinos Without

Getting Plucked Like A Chicken paperback 5,422

   
  Paymar, Dan Video Poker: Optimum Play paperback 22,329
   
  Rubin, Max Comp City: A Guide to Free Casino Vacations (2nd

Edition) paperback 70,802

   
  Dancer, Bob Million Dollar Video Poker paperback 91,932
   
  Grochowski, John The Video Poker Answer Book: How to Attack

Variations on a Casino Favorite paperback 93,912

   
  Scoblete, Frank Victory at Video Poker hardcover

122,725

   
  Wong, Stanford Professional Video Poker paperback

201,754

   
  Fleming, Roger Win at Video Poker: The Guide to Beating the

Poker Machines paperback 220,495

   
  Scott, Jean The Frugal Gambler paperback 269,529
   
  Dancer, Bob Sex, Lies, And Video Poker: An Erotic Novel About

Gamblling paperback 278,838

   
  Scott, Jean More Frugal Gambling paperback 309,542
   
  Royer, Victor Powerful Profits from
Video Poker paperback 399,335
   
  Singer, Rob The Undeniable Truth About Video Poker

paperback 797,536

   
  Patrick, John John Patrick's Video Poker: The Complete Guide

to Playing and Winning paperback 959,624

Lainie Wolf <lainiewolf702@...> wrote:
  You raised my curiosity, so I went to Amazon.com and did some

research. The site ranks all books based on their historical sales,
and is probably the only way that anyone can compare results.
Here's what I came up with (in order from best to worst selling):

   
                    Author Title Amazon Rank Ford, James

Harrison How To Gamble At The Casinos Without Getting Plucked
Like A Chicken paperback 5,422 Paymar, Dan Video Poker:
Optimum Play paperback 22,329 Rubin, Max Comp City: A Guide
to Free Casino Vacations (2nd Edition) paperback 70,802
Dancer, Bob Million Dollar Video Poker paperback 91,932
Grochowski, John The Video Poker Answer Book: How to Attack
Variations on a Casino Favorite paperback 93,912 Scoblete,
Frank Victory at Video Poker hardcover 122,725 Wong,
Stanford Professional Video Poker paperback 201,754
Fleming, Roger Win at Video Poker: The Guide to Beating the Poker
Machines paperback 220,495 Scott, Jean The Frugal Gambler
paperback 269,529 Dancer, Bob Sex, Lies, And Video Poker: An
Erotic Novel About Gamblling paperback 278,838 Scott, Jean
More Frugal Gambling paperback 309,542 Royer, Victor
Powerful Profits from

Video Poker paperback 399,335 Singer, Rob The Undeniable

Truth About Video Poker paperback 797,536 Patrick, John
John Patrick's Video Poker: The Complete Guide to Playing and
Winning paperback 959,624

Robert Romanyshyn <bobfpdw@...> wrote:
  It would interesting to see sales figures for Paymar's,

Dancer's, & Wong's VP books compared vs so-called VP experts like
Patrick, Scoblete's, Singer, etc. Based on my visits to bookstores
(other than Gamblers in LV), I see more of Patrick & Co than Paymar
& Co. Messeur Brumar may have a point. :slight_smile:

  Bob

brumar_lv <brumar_lv@...> wrote:
  > Second, I don't think VP experts have much impact on the

general public. The vast majority of players seem very uninformed.
Most have never read anything about paytables, strategy, or comps,
and could care less. There are only 2-4 good VP books, and it's my

impression they sell poorly.

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#29

Thank you Lainie for the list of VP related books ranked by sales
history.

I was glad to see that the majority of the book-buying public has
avoided The Undeniable Truth.

LVGamb00ler

#30

Again, I did not post this to single anyone out - either positively or negatively, and I really don't want this thread to degenerate into bashing ANY authors.
   
  FWIW, I've never read Mr. Singer's book, but I had an interaction with him a few months ago, and he couldn't have been nicer, more gracious or more of a gentleman..
   
  Lainie

···

ederekf_lv <lvgamb00ler@cox.net> wrote:
  Thank you Lainie for the list of VP related books ranked by sales
history.

I was glad to see that the majority of the book-buying public has
avoided The Undeniable Truth.

LVGamb00ler

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