vpFREE2 Forums

vpFREE4 · January 14, 2020, 4:45pm

... I happened on your post and want to give you a few words of

encouragement. This is, of course, a forum, where correct technical
play of the "advantage" games is the "start" to hopefully a successful
session ... <<<<

pFREE is currently being temporarily moderated so that I can
shortstop posts about the Singer type system that was moved to
FREEvpFREE last night.

I let Ante Roz's post go through because her posts are always
worth reading, and because general comments and short discussions
of "different" systems or approaches aren't banned on vpFREE.
OTOH, prolonged discussions of "different" systems, whose advocates
primarily use anecdotal evidence to support their theories, have proven
counter-productive in the past and won't happen on vpFREE.

At this time, please use FREEvpFREE for ANY further "different"
systems discussions.

vpFREE Administrator

Bill_Velek1 · January 14, 2020, 6:05pm

vpFREE wrote:

snip

I let Ante Roz's post go through because her posts are always
worth reading, and because general comments and short discussions
of "different" systems or approaches aren't banned on vpFREE.

Just so I'm clear on this, when you say "different systems or approaches", do you mean different from _max-ER_ strategy (the 'default' strategy used by WinPoker, FrugalVP, VPStrategyMaster, and probably nearly every strategy chart that is commercially marketed)? If so, then I presume that discussion of alternatives like min-RoR, min-Cost, and max-Royal, etc. -- at least any discussions that are _lengthy_ -- should be on FreevpFree?? I think that this is a very good idea because it seemed that everytime I turned around I was having to qualify my statements with "_max-ER_", instead of it just being 'understood' that that is what I was speaking about. I had even suggested to Steve Jacobs that max-ER ought to be considered as a "default" because of its popularity, and that it should be just assumed as the pertinent strategy unless a different one is specified. That is precisely how I am going to proceed from now on in this forum, and I have just joined FreeVPFree so that I can monitor it for those 'alternative' types of discussions which still interest me because of the math. I think that this will also serve to calm some folks who seemed to resent those sorts of discussions.

Thanks.

Bill Velek

Mark_P · January 14, 2020, 6:05pm

I want to thank Ante Roz and Bill V. for their replies.
These were the most sensible, polite and politically correct replies
on this "alternate discussions" subject in a long time. Nice to have
somebody "understand".

I have long-struggled (OK, only for a year or two) to find a way to
address the gems within RS writings and rantings without offending
the mathematically correct status quo here on vpFree, without
resurrecting old and painfully non-educational flame wars and/or
without mentioning RS by name!!

This struggle has paralleled my own struggle to establish a game-plan
to profit at this most-entertaining hobby of VP. Learning perfect or
optimal strategy is certainly the basis, like class-work. Bending the
rules to take a gamble is like goin' out on the playground to sneak a
smoke. Of course, having your bankroll develop cancer is a possible
outcome!

Anyhow, looks like FreevpFree might turn into a fun place to visit
and chat math & strategies instead of a holding pond for buffoons and
flamers. Looking forward to it...

~Mark P.

anterozlv@a... wrote:

>>>> ... I happened on your post and want to give you a few words

of

encouragement. This is, of course, a forum, where correct technical
play of the "advantage" games is the "start" to hopefully a

successful

session ... <<<<

vpFREE is currently being temporarily moderated so that I can
shortstop posts about the Singer type system that was moved to
FREEvpFREE last night.

I let Ante Roz's post go through because her posts are always
worth reading, and because general comments and short discussions
of "different" systems or approaches aren't banned on vpFREE.
OTOH, prolonged discussions of "different" systems, whose advocates
primarily use anecdotal evidence to support their theories, have

proven

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE" <vpFREE@C...> wrote:

counter-productive in the past and won't happen on vpFREE.

At this time, please use FREEvpFREE for ANY further "different"
systems discussions.

vpFREE Administrator

Steve_Jacobs · January 14, 2020, 6:05pm

I going to go out on a limb here and guess that Tom wasn't suggesting
that mathematcally grounded discussions were in any way inappropriate
for this forum, even if they become lengthy. When I post about VP
topics, this is my forum of choice. I don't monitor FreeVPFree except
on rare occasions, so if discussions get moved to that forum, it will
not be likely that I'll continue with those particular discussions. These
days, my online time is so limited that I am unable to actively participate
on a lot of different boards -- it just gets too hard to remember what
I've discussed on which board. If I'm out of line on this, I'm sure Tom
will let me know.

···

On Friday 19 March 2004 12:40 pm, Bill Velek wrote:

vpFREE wrote:

snip

> I let Ante Roz's post go through because her posts are always
> worth reading, and because general comments and short discussions
> of "different" systems or approaches aren't banned on vpFREE.

Just so I'm clear on this, when you say "different systems or
approaches", do you mean different from _max-ER_ strategy (the 'default'
strategy used by WinPoker, FrugalVP, VPStrategyMaster, and probably
nearly every strategy chart that is commercially marketed)? If so, then
I presume that discussion of alternatives like min-RoR, min-Cost, and
max-Royal, etc. -- at least any discussions that are _lengthy_ -- should
be on FreevpFree?? I think that this is a very good idea because it
seemed that everytime I turned around I was having to qualify my
statements with "_max-ER_", instead of it just being 'understood' that
that is what I was speaking about. I had even suggested to Steve Jacobs
that max-ER ought to be considered as a "default" because of its
popularity, and that it should be just assumed as the pertinent strategy
unless a different one is specified. That is precisely how I am going
to proceed from now on in this forum, and I have just joined FreeVPFree
so that I can monitor it for those 'alternative' types of discussions
which still interest me because of the math. I think that this will
also serve to calm some folks who seemed to resent those sorts of
discussions.

vpFREE4 · January 14, 2020, 6:05pm

vpFREE wrote:

> I let Ante Roz's post go through because her posts are always
> worth reading, and because general comments and short discussions of
> "different" systems or approaches aren't banned on vpFREE.

On 19 Mar 2004 at 13:40, Bill Velek replied:

Just so I'm clear on this, when you say "different systems or
approaches", do you mean different from _max-ER_ strategy ...

Here's the next sentence in my post:

"OTOH, prolonged discussions of "different" systems, whose
advocates primarily use anecdotal evidence to support their
theories, have proven counter-productive in the past and won't
happen on vpFREE."

So, my use of "different" refers to alternate strategies that can't
be documented other than by uncorroborated anecdotal evidence.

vpFREE Administrator

Bill_Velek1 · January 14, 2020, 6:05pm

vpFREE wrote:

> vpFREE wrote:
> > I let Ante Roz's post go through because her posts are always
> > worth reading, and because general comments and short discussions of
> > "different" systems or approaches aren't banned on vpFREE.

On 19 Mar 2004 at 13:40, Bill Velek replied:

> Just so I'm clear on this, when you say "different systems or
> approaches", do you mean different from _max-ER_ strategy ...

Here's the next sentence in my post:

"OTOH, prolonged discussions of "different" systems, whose
advocates primarily use anecdotal evidence to support their
theories, have proven counter-productive in the past and won't
happen on vpFREE."

So, my use of "different" refers to alternate strategies that can't
be documented other than by uncorroborated anecdotal evidence.

Thanks for the clarification. I hope you don't think that I was trying to put words into your mouth; I just didn't pick up on the significance of your use of quote marks around "different" when you said that "short discussions of 'different' systems or approaches aren't banned on vpFREE" -- probably because your emphasis had occurred prior to your defining what it means, and then I also focused on your use of the word "short", too. So, in light of your clarification as well as Steve Jacob indicating that he wouldn't participate on FreeVPFree, then not having to monitor that forum will save me time, too, since this is my forum of choice as well.

Cheers.

Bill Velek

...concerning RS