vpFREE2 Forums

Comments on several threads

#1

Because Robert avoided answering my question of just why-in-the-world
he would be showing a vpFree printout to a host, I still think there
is more to this story (ala Starhunter) than meets the eye. So I'm
reserving judgment until the all the facts are in.

It's never a smart move to give casino personnel any indication that
you might be a savvy player. Because, given the right circumstances,
they can and will abruptly turn on you for even something as innocent
as checking pay schedules, consulting a strategy sheet, using
buzzword vocabulary such as "full-pay" ... or just showing a print-
out from vpFree!? This is especially true for regulars, who get
noticed over time, and less so for infrequent visitors. Your
demeanor should be "slot-dumb" when interacting with employees. Be
especially careful in any discussions regarding player benefits. The
margin between "intelligent" player and "advantage" player can be
pretty thin. And don't ever excessively pursue an issue that is
unfair to you if the downside could blow your cover. Better to lose
the battle than lose the war.

Casino mistakes are very common. I'm a visitor and frequent only a
few casinos at a time, but I can usually find at least one mistake
per trip that will add to my advantage. If you are a morning-person,
make it a point to do some scouting just after graveyard shift when
the casino is empty and personnel are half asleep. What you find
depends on how carefully you look, but you won't find a mistake at
all if you don't (look). I also self-track my play and this pays
dividends in finding VP games that play the slot rate or more theo
than they should. Those who are willing to do a little work usually
get paid.

And, if you do find something, please think twice before you post.
Odds are you are not the first to notice, but you could be the last.
By now everyone should know that casinos and friends of the casinos
monitor this site for just such information.

Scouting can be a high risk activity, but I have yet to be asked for
ID. As long as you make it appear that you are just looking for a
machine to play (not hustling credits), you should be okay. This
means not spending a excessive amount of time per scout and keeping
your radar up for any indication you're being watched. Hustlers move
rapidly and scouts move slowly, so going slow keeps a low profile and
helps prevent overlooking mistakes.

I'm still confused about when to show ID. Mickey suggests a get-in-
their-face approach and refusing, but that guarantees you'll get
tossed. Others emphasize unhesitating cooperation to calm any
suspicion. I guess the right answer depends on the circumstances:
refusing if "guilty" and cooperation if "innocent".

#2

I do have to admit that sucking up is not my long suit. I'm not
saying you should take the tact I took at the California Club. I
knew that particular guard as did all the downtown bonus machine
players and he was highly unethical. I knew for sure I was a goner
from the place.

The Fremont's general policy with bonus machine players was leave
them alone unless they are bothering someone. Not with this guard.
He was seen in various locales in his off-duty hours playing bonus
machines and hustling credits. I guess if you want to weed out
credit hustlers from your casino this guy would be the best to hire
because he would know another credit hustler just like a skunk knows
another skunk.

When the incident happened the bonus machine era was pretty much
over. There were still a few things left but they all had bad chips
in them and everyone and their mother knew how to play them. But
during its heyday both my friend and myself had the good sense not to
hustle credits or con the tourists. And we had the good sense not to
stand and sweat plays.

But that can't be said of all the bonus machine players. There were
those of us who maintained bankrolls and had other gambling
interests. Then there were those of us who used the bonus machines
to support whatever bad habits they had--like compulsive gambling,
drugs, or whatever. They couldn't walk by a machine that had credits
on it.

There were unscrupulous bustouts who would find a machine that was
ripe then sit there until a hustler came along and try to sell the
play. We used to get a big kick out of boycotting them and letting
them sit there for hours trying to look inconspicuous.

The real scumbags were the crackhead types who would steer little old
ladies to a bonus machine having them play until the bonus is ripe to
be picked then steer them off the machine. Their crackhead buddy
would swoop in on the machine as the smooth talking hustler guided
the lady to another bonus machine.

The above type people deserve to be pitched from the casinos.
Security is doing everyone a big favor when they do. But security is
not always right. They will protect each other when they are wrong,
just like cops do. Just be aware that if you give them I.D., and
they pitch you, they will document you and use it against you if you
get caught on the property again.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "2-WILD" <lucky4K@...> wrote:

I'm still confused about when to show ID. Mickey suggests a get-in-
their-face approach and refusing, but that guarantees you'll get
tossed. Others emphasize unhesitating cooperation to calm any
suspicion. I guess the right answer depends on the circumstances:
refusing if "guilty" and cooperation if "innocent".

#3

The Fremont's general policy with bonus machine players was leave
them alone unless they are bothering someone. Not with this

guard.

He was seen in various locales in his off-duty hours playing bonus
machines and hustling credits. I guess if you want to weed out
credit hustlers from your casino this guy would be the best to hire
because he would know another credit hustler just like a skunk

knows

another skunk.

When the incident happened the bonus machine era was pretty much
over. There were still a few things left but they all had bad

chips

in them and everyone and their mother knew how to play them. But
during its heyday both my friend and myself had the good sense not

to

hustle credits or con the tourists. And we had the good sense not

to

stand and sweat plays.

But that can't be said of all the bonus machine players. There

were

those of us who maintained bankrolls and had other gambling
interests. Then there were those of us who used the bonus machines
to support whatever bad habits they had--like compulsive gambling,
drugs, or whatever. They couldn't walk by a machine that had

credits

on it.

There were unscrupulous bustouts who would find a machine that was
ripe then sit there until a hustler came along and try to sell the
play. We used to get a big kick out of boycotting them and letting
them sit there for hours trying to look inconspicuous.

The real scumbags were the crackhead types who would steer little

old

ladies to a bonus machine having them play until the bonus is ripe

to

be picked then steer them off the machine. Their crackhead buddy
would swoop in on the machine as the smooth talking hustler guided
the lady to another bonus machine.

The above type people deserve to be pitched from the casinos.
Security is doing everyone a big favor when they do. But security

is

not always right. They will protect each other when they are

wrong,

just like cops do. Just be aware that if you give them I.D., and
they pitch you, they will document you and use it against you if

you

get caught on the property again.

I overlooked one little item while making the above post. We
derisively referred to the low-life casino hustlers I described above
as Fremont Street Commandoes. Now you know the rest of the story.
Good day.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

#4

2-WILD:

don't ever excessively pursue an issue that is
unfair to you if the downside could blow your cover. Better to lose
the battle than lose the war.

I was playing a very regular schedule of exactly the same amount of
play per week at the Tuscany. Then, 11,000 points, worth $11,
weren't properly credited to my card. I asked about it 3 or 4 times
and once, a supervisor, looking into my account to see what the
problem was, commented on how systematically I had played. Within a
few weeks, I had been cut off from all benefits. I never got the
11,000 points, either. Acting out of "principle" can be costly.

#5

I also self-track my play and this pays

dividends in finding VP games that play the slot rate or more theo
than they should.

Will somebody explain what theo means in this context.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "2-WILD" <lucky4K@...> wrote:

#6

I also self-track my play and this pays
> dividends in finding VP games that play the slot rate or more theo
> than they should.

Will somebody explain what theo means in this context.

I'll take a stab at it. Let's assume that on the particular video poker
machine that you are playing, the casino has assigned a 3.5% theo. to that
game, in other words, they are assuming that you will lose that percentage
on all the coin in that you play on that machine. If you happen to find a
machine with your same VP game on it with the same paytable, but also
includes nickel Lucky Lucy's Lapdance Lion Fish video slot on it and
erroneously assigned the 7% theo. for that idiot game to your VP game, you
have stumbled on a comp. bonanza. If the casino in question is comping at a
rate of 30% of your theo. on the first machine, for every $100K you put
through over time, you would be entitled to $1,050.00 in comps. The same VP
game on the Lucy machine would net you double that, or $2,100.00. Of course,
the difficult part of this little magic trick is how to determine the
casino's theo. assignments on both machines. Good luck with that.
                                Nudge

#7

> I also self-track my play and this pays
> > dividends in finding VP games that play the slot rate or more

theo

> > than they should.

> Will somebody explain what theo means in this context.

I'll take a stab at it. Let's assume that on the particular video

poker

machine that you are playing, the casino has assigned a 3.5% theo.

to that

game, in other words, they are assuming that you will lose that

percentage

on all the coin in that you play on that machine. If you happen to

find a

machine with your same VP game on it with the same paytable, but

also

includes nickel Lucky Lucy's Lapdance Lion Fish video slot on it and
erroneously assigned the 7% theo. for that idiot game to your VP

game, you

have stumbled on a comp. bonanza. If the casino in question is

comping at a

rate of 30% of your theo. on the first machine, for every $100K you

put

through over time, you would be entitled to $1,050.00 in comps. The

same VP

game on the Lucy machine would net you double that, or $2,100.00.

Of course,

the difficult part of this little magic trick is how to determine

the

casino's theo. assignments on both machines. Good luck with that.
                                Nudge

The best clue to a high theo situation is a higher point return than
expected (from play). If you track your coin and points from machine
to machine, you'll spot a discrepancy right away. This works the
other way as well (low theo).

Most of the time VP theo is constant. But some casinos purposely
vary their theo depending on pay schedule, type of machine,
denomination, coin per time, and other variables. These are much
harder situations to analyze.

While high theo machines are attractive, the trade-off is usually a
poorer pay schedule (makes sense) ... unless there's been a mistake.
If you can find a high theo machine with a good pay schedule that
fits well with your bankroll, you can add to your advantage as nudge
points out.

And it's not just "extra" comps. Cashback, offers, and anything else
tied to points also get a boost.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nudge51" <nudge51@...> wrote:

#8

The best clue to a high theo situation is a higher point return than
expected (from play). If you track your coin and points from machine
to machine, you'll spot a discrepancy right away.

The casino's assignment of theo. to a game should have absolutely no affect
on your rate of point accrual. What would their expected rate of return have
to do with the way that you earn points? Of course, my own experience is
here in Las Vegas where I live. Perhaps, there are factors in other
jurisdictions that I am unaware of. Where do you play?
                                                 Nudge

···

From: "2-WILD" <lucky4K@MSN.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Comments on several threads