vpFREE2 Forums

Class III /Class II

This morning paper in Quad Cites Iowa had a very interesting article
on VP & whether or not they are "Random" I E-mailed the author & am
including it here. Feel free to comment. I'd sure like to figure
this out once & for all.
Lo & behold my Saturday Quad City Times has answered a question that
has been foremost on my mind for some time. "Are we really getting
a random deal on VP in Iowa." I'm going to take your article as the
truth, even if it is not quite complete( as I understand it anyway –
more about that later). I've been playing VP for about two years,
mostly on Ia's riverboats, but 7 trips to Vegas in that time.
Before I started playing I bought the books & software & practiced
for hours. I've since studied further & now pretty much stay with
Dancer's methods & use his cards on those few hands that I don't
know what to do. So I feel I'm playing fairly close to "perfect"
play. I pretty much stay with Jacks or better or Double double
bonus to keep the confusion factor down. I've done fairly well in
Vegas. The last trip wasn't the best, but that's to be expected.
It is gambling after all. I do TERRIBLE at the place to play that
I've found gives me the best odds in the QCA,(according to what your
article is saying) Right now I stay with Double Double Bonus as
that's 9/6 at Isle of Capri. I realize the roller coaster up & down
is greater in this game, but it sure doesn't seem to be near the 99+
percent I should be playing at.
In the very near future, I was going to do whatever it took to find
the answer that you have given me. I didn't know if someone on the
boat is obliged to tell me what the answer is or if I was going to
have to try to contact the Ia. gaming commission. As I said, I'm
going to take you at your word, EXCEPT…

I very recently have entered a chat room(I guess that's what you'd
call it) on Yahoo on VP. I assume you're aware of it. Bob Dancer
& "the Queen of comps" are regular contributors. In fact when I
first started a couple of weeks ago, I asked this very specific
question, but only had one response from someone in Quad Cities &
wasn't very confident of their answer. Anyway, there has been a lot
of discussion lately about Class III vs Class II VP machines. The
way I understand is Class III machines are a random deal & this is
required in Nevada & MOST states, but some states and FOR SURE the
Indian casinos are not. Many Indian Casinos, at least, are using
Class II machines. Class II machines are basically like slot
machines or a lottery, in that they are dealing a certain percentage
payout, and the 8/5, 9/6, or whatever listed payout means nothing.
I also believe what I'm reading, for the most part, in this internet
site, and think you owe your readers a little further explanation on
this subject.

As you might guess, I'm a fairly regular visitor to the Casinos. In
fact, I'm retired, getting a decent pension, but still work for the
same employer, primarily to support my bad habits, obviously one of
which is Video Poker. When I first started this, I thought I could
actually make money doing this. I no longer believe that, at least
unless I was willing to move east or west which I'm not willing to
do at this time. But, assuming I can play at 99+%, I think I should
be doing better. I'm willing to pay that 1% or so for my
entertainment.

Anyway, I very much enjoy you weekly articles on gambling, even
though I pretty much stay with VP. I do have one question…Are you
Local to the Iowa. Illinois area? I think I've gotten the
impression from your writing that you are.

I wish you had provided a link to the article, but here's a few comments.

Every riverboat is regulated by its state and all
riverboats have Nevada-style VP machines. Class
II distinctions only apply to some Indian casinos
in some states. If you go to a Tribal casino and
ask they will tell you whether they are Class II
or III. In most (not all) Class II casinos the
machines display the underlying Bingo card.

Your assumptions are not correct, every
non-Tribal casino in the US has VP dealt with
every card having an equal chance of appearing.
Many Indian casinos are Class III and are dealt
the same way. It is simple to find out.

Bill

···

At 04:58 AM 2/11/2006, you wrote:

This morning paper in Quad Cites Iowa had a very interesting article
on VP & whether or not they are "Random" I E-mailed the author & am
including it here. Feel free to comment. I'd sure like to figure
this out once & for all.
Lo & behold my Saturday Quad City Times has answered a question that
has been foremost on my mind for some time. "Are we really getting
a random deal on VP in Iowa." I'm going to take your article as the
truth, even if it is not quite complete( as I understand it anyway ­
more about that later). I've been playing VP for about two years,
mostly on Ia's riverboats, but 7 trips to Vegas in that time.
Before I started playing I bought the books & software & practiced
for hours. I've since studied further & now pretty much stay with
Dancer's methods & use his cards on those few hands that I don't
know what to do. So I feel I'm playing fairly close to "perfect"
play. I pretty much stay with Jacks or better or Double double
bonus to keep the confusion factor down. I've done fairly well in
Vegas. The last trip wasn't the best, but that's to be expected.
It is gambling after all. I do TERRIBLE at the place to play that
I've found gives me the best odds in the QCA,(according to what your
article is saying) Right now I stay with Double Double Bonus as
that's 9/6 at Isle of Capri. I realize the roller coaster up & down
is greater in this game, but it sure doesn't seem to be near the 99+
percent I should be playing at.
In the very near future, I was going to do whatever it took to find
the answer that you have given me. I didn't know if someone on the
boat is obliged to tell me what the answer is or if I was going to
have to try to contact the Ia. gaming commission. As I said, I'm
going to take you at your word, EXCEPT…

I very recently have entered a chat room(I guess that's what you'd
call it) on Yahoo on VP. I assume you're aware of it. Bob Dancer
& "the Queen of comps" are regular contributors. In fact when I
first started a couple of weeks ago, I asked this very specific
question, but only had one response from someone in Quad Cities &
wasn't very confident of their answer. Anyway, there has been a lot
of discussion lately about Class III vs Class II VP machines. The
way I understand is Class III machines are a random deal & this is
required in Nevada & MOST states, but some states and FOR SURE the
Indian casinos are not. Many Indian Casinos, at least, are using
Class II machines. Class II machines are basically like slot
machines or a lottery, in that they are dealing a certain percentage
payout, and the 8/5, 9/6, or whatever listed payout means nothing.
I also believe what I'm reading, for the most part, in this internet
site, and think you owe your readers a little further explanation on
this subject.

As you might guess, I'm a fairly regular visitor to the Casinos. In
fact, I'm retired, getting a decent pension, but still work for the
same employer, primarily to support my bad habits, obviously one of
which is Video Poker. When I first started this, I thought I could
actually make money doing this. I no longer believe that, at least
unless I was willing to move east or west which I'm not willing to
do at this time. But, assuming I can play at 99+%, I think I should
be doing better. I'm willing to pay that 1% or so for my
entertainment.

Anyway, I very much enjoy you weekly articles on gambling, even
though I pretty much stay with VP. I do have one question…Are you
Local to the Iowa. Illinois area? I think I've gotten the
impression from your writing that you are.

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The link I guess would be www.qctimes.com. The article title is "No
hidden dangers playing video poker" By John Brokopp, the thrifty
gambler. Hope this helped. Thanks for the clarification

I wish you had provided a link to the article, but here's a few

comments.

Every riverboat is regulated by its state and all
riverboats have Nevada-style VP machines. Class
II distinctions only apply to some Indian casinos
in some states. If you go to a Tribal casino and
ask they will tell you whether they are Class II
or III. In most (not all) Class II casinos the
machines display the underlying Bingo card.

Your assumptions are not correct, every
non-Tribal casino in the US has VP dealt with
every card having an equal chance of appearing.
Many Indian casinos are Class III and are dealt
the same way. It is simple to find out.

Bill

>This morning paper in Quad Cites Iowa had a very interesting

article

>on VP & whether or not they are "Random" I E-mailed the author &

am

>including it here. Feel free to comment. I'd sure like to figure
>this out once & for all.
>Lo & behold my Saturday Quad City Times has answered a question

that

>has been foremost on my mind for some time. "Are we really

getting

>a random deal on VP in Iowa." I'm going to take your article as

the

>truth, even if it is not quite complete( as I understand it

anyway ­

>more about that later). I've been playing VP for about two years,
>mostly on Ia's riverboats, but 7 trips to Vegas in that time.
>Before I started playing I bought the books & software & practiced
>for hours. I've since studied further & now pretty much stay with
>Dancer's methods & use his cards on those few hands that I don't
>know what to do. So I feel I'm playing fairly close to "perfect"
>play. I pretty much stay with Jacks or better or Double double
>bonus to keep the confusion factor down. I've done fairly well in
>Vegas. The last trip wasn't the best, but that's to be expected.
>It is gambling after all. I do TERRIBLE at the place to play that
>I've found gives me the best odds in the QCA,(according to what

your

>article is saying) Right now I stay with Double Double Bonus as
>that's 9/6 at Isle of Capri. I realize the roller coaster up &

down

>is greater in this game, but it sure doesn't seem to be near the

99+

>percent I should be playing at.
>In the very near future, I was going to do whatever it took to

find

>the answer that you have given me. I didn't know if someone on

the

>boat is obliged to tell me what the answer is or if I was going to
>have to try to contact the Ia. gaming commission. As I said, I'm
>going to take you at your word, EXCEPT…
>
>I very recently have entered a chat room(I guess that's what you'd
>call it) on Yahoo on VP. I assume you're aware of it. Bob Dancer
>& "the Queen of comps" are regular contributors. In fact when I
>first started a couple of weeks ago, I asked this very specific
>question, but only had one response from someone in Quad Cities &
>wasn't very confident of their answer. Anyway, there has been a

lot

>of discussion lately about Class III vs Class II VP machines. The
>way I understand is Class III machines are a random deal & this is
>required in Nevada & MOST states, but some states and FOR SURE

the

>Indian casinos are not. Many Indian Casinos, at least, are using
>Class II machines. Class II machines are basically like slot
>machines or a lottery, in that they are dealing a certain

percentage

>payout, and the 8/5, 9/6, or whatever listed payout means nothing.
>I also believe what I'm reading, for the most part, in this

internet

>site, and think you owe your readers a little further explanation

on

>this subject.
>
>As you might guess, I'm a fairly regular visitor to the Casinos.

In

>fact, I'm retired, getting a decent pension, but still work for

the

>same employer, primarily to support my bad habits, obviously one

of

>which is Video Poker. When I first started this, I thought I

could

>actually make money doing this. I no longer believe that, at

least

>unless I was willing to move east or west which I'm not willing to
>do at this time. But, assuming I can play at 99+%, I think I

should

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@...> wrote:

At 04:58 AM 2/11/2006, you wrote:
>be doing better. I'm willing to pay that 1% or so for my
>entertainment.
>
>Anyway, I very much enjoy you weekly articles on gambling, even
>though I pretty much stay with VP. I do have one question…Are you
>Local to the Iowa. Illinois area? I think I've gotten the
>impression from your writing that you are.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The link I guess would be www.qctimes.com. The article title is "No
hidden dangers playing video poker" By John Brokopp, the thrifty
gambler. Hope this helped. Thanks for the clarification

I wish you had provided a link to the article, but here's a few

comments.

Every riverboat is regulated by its state and all
riverboats have Nevada-style VP machines. Class
II distinctions only apply to some Indian casinos
in some states. If you go to a Tribal casino and
ask they will tell you whether they are Class II
or III. In most (not all) Class II casinos the
machines display the underlying Bingo card.

Your assumptions are not correct, every
non-Tribal casino in the US has VP dealt with
every card having an equal chance of appearing.
Many Indian casinos are Class III and are dealt
the same way. It is simple to find out.

Bill

>This morning paper in Quad Cites Iowa had a very interesting

article

>on VP & whether or not they are "Random" I E-mailed the author &

am

>including it here. Feel free to comment. I'd sure like to figure
>this out once & for all.
>Lo & behold my Saturday Quad City Times has answered a question

that

>has been foremost on my mind for some time. "Are we really

getting

>a random deal on VP in Iowa." I'm going to take your article as

the

>truth, even if it is not quite complete( as I understand it

anyway ­

>more about that later). I've been playing VP for about two years,
>mostly on Ia's riverboats, but 7 trips to Vegas in that time.
>Before I started playing I bought the books & software & practiced
>for hours. I've since studied further & now pretty much stay with
>Dancer's methods & use his cards on those few hands that I don't
>know what to do. So I feel I'm playing fairly close to "perfect"
>play. I pretty much stay with Jacks or better or Double double
>bonus to keep the confusion factor down. I've done fairly well in
>Vegas. The last trip wasn't the best, but that's to be expected.
>It is gambling after all. I do TERRIBLE at the place to play that
>I've found gives me the best odds in the QCA,(according to what

your

>article is saying) Right now I stay with Double Double Bonus as
>that's 9/6 at Isle of Capri. I realize the roller coaster up &

down

>is greater in this game, but it sure doesn't seem to be near the

99+

>percent I should be playing at.
>In the very near future, I was going to do whatever it took to

find

>the answer that you have given me. I didn't know if someone on

the

>boat is obliged to tell me what the answer is or if I was going to
>have to try to contact the Ia. gaming commission. As I said, I'm
>going to take you at your word, EXCEPT…
>
>I very recently have entered a chat room(I guess that's what you'd
>call it) on Yahoo on VP. I assume you're aware of it. Bob Dancer
>& "the Queen of comps" are regular contributors. In fact when I
>first started a couple of weeks ago, I asked this very specific
>question, but only had one response from someone in Quad Cities &
>wasn't very confident of their answer. Anyway, there has been a

lot

>of discussion lately about Class III vs Class II VP machines. The
>way I understand is Class III machines are a random deal & this is
>required in Nevada & MOST states, but some states and FOR SURE

the

>Indian casinos are not. Many Indian Casinos, at least, are using
>Class II machines. Class II machines are basically like slot
>machines or a lottery, in that they are dealing a certain

percentage

>payout, and the 8/5, 9/6, or whatever listed payout means nothing.
>I also believe what I'm reading, for the most part, in this

internet

>site, and think you owe your readers a little further explanation

on

>this subject.
>
>As you might guess, I'm a fairly regular visitor to the Casinos.

In

>fact, I'm retired, getting a decent pension, but still work for

the

>same employer, primarily to support my bad habits, obviously one

of

>which is Video Poker. When I first started this, I thought I

could

>actually make money doing this. I no longer believe that, at

least

>unless I was willing to move east or west which I'm not willing to
>do at this time. But, assuming I can play at 99+%, I think I

should

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@...> wrote:

At 04:58 AM 2/11/2006, you wrote:
>be doing better. I'm willing to pay that 1% or so for my
>entertainment.
>
>Anyway, I very much enjoy you weekly articles on gambling, even
>though I pretty much stay with VP. I do have one question…Are you
>Local to the Iowa. Illinois area? I think I've gotten the
>impression from your writing that you are.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just a couple observations, both of which you probably know, but I'll
mention anyway.

First, the roller coaster ride with DDB is very severe. You may be
underestimating it.

Second, be sure to keep in mind the 99% is not 99% of your bankroll.
It is 99% of what you gamble. Big difference! Say your bankroll is
$1000 and with it you gamble $10,000. 99% of $1000 is $990, or a $10
loss. 99% of $10,000 is $9900, or a $100 loss. You lose 10% of your
bankroll! Of course these figures are very simplistic, but you see
there is a big difference. This is why it's so important to play
positive games.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "chevy59el" <chevy59el@...> wrote:

But, assuming I can play at 99+%, I think I should
be doing better. I'm willing to pay that 1% or so for my
entertainment.