The casino changed a dealt bj from 3:2 to 1:1. Seems two local burn
artists were playing two machines apiece at $50.00 a hand to get 5000
points for the $50.00 free play.
Circus Circus video blackjack
richardef4 wrote:
The casino changed a dealt bj from 3:2 to 1:1. Seems two local burn
artists were playing two machines apiece at $50.00 a hand to get 5000
points for the $50.00 free play.
There are more descriptive and apt terms for such short-term stunts
than "burn out artist".
- H.
.4 approaches being a good play on VBJ, the benchmark is about .5%.
One of my partners in crime is very unhappy with one of the posters
here, and I need to have a word with the other.
A local burnout artist could care less about the $50. At 1500 hands an
hour, he's making close to $300/hr with low variance (99.9+.5=100.4 X
1500x50). And I have a short list of local pros who would come in and
torch the game.
VPFree killed another good play again (unless it was in the Advisor
first). I can think of any number of pros who lurk here waiting for a
well meaning recreational player to innocuously out a play, like it
happened last week here. Which reminds me, speaking of outing...
Again, your hobby is my business. I can't begin to tell you how much
money the well meaning recreational player has cost me over the last
three years. Knowledge is truly a dangerous thing sometimes. Next time
you find an IGT 3-2 blackjack machine, just keep it to yourself.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richardef4" <richardef4@...> wrote:
The casino changed a dealt bj from 3:2 to 1:1. Seems two local burn
artists were playing two machines apiece at $50.00 a hand to get 5000
points for the $50.00 free play.
Hey , likewise I'm sure. I cant tell you how many times some selfish , all for themselves pro/semi-pro team has screwed me out of a good play -by hogging seats and tag teaming the remaining seats !
Its a 2 way street out there !
···
I can't begin to tell you how much
money the well meaning recreational player has cost me over the last
three years.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
<paladingamingllc@...> wrote:
>
> The casino changed a dealt bj from 3:2 to 1:1. Seems two local
burn
> artists were playing two machines apiece at $50.00 a hand to get
5000
> points for the $50.00 free play.
.4 approaches being a good play on VBJ, the benchmark is about .5%.
One of my partners in crime is very unhappy with one of the posters
here, and I need to have a word with the other.A local burnout artist could care less about the $50. At 1500
hands an
hour, he's making close to $300/hr with low variance
(99.9+.5=100.4 X
1500x50). And I have a short list of local pros who would come in
and
torch the game.
VPFree killed another good play again (unless it was in the Advisor
first). I can think of any number of pros who lurk here waiting
for a
well meaning recreational player to innocuously out a play, like it
happened last week here. Which reminds me, speaking of outing...Again, your hobby is my business. I can't begin to tell you how
much
money the well meaning recreational player has cost me over the
last
three years. Knowledge is truly a dangerous thing sometimes. Next
time
you find an IGT 3-2 blackjack machine, just keep it to yourself.
I don't care how much the "well meaning recreational player" has
cost you. I am just appalled that anyone thinks they have a
proprietary right to good plays. If your income shrinks, it's not
exactly going to have a deleterious effect on the US economy.
God forbid you have to get a real job. Sheesh!
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richardef4" <richardef4@> wrote:
Many machines at the Circus were also paying double points
earlier this month. You got 1 point for every $5 bet instead of $10.
I don't know if it was a promo or if it had something to do with the
new card, but people were getting 1.2% freeplay on the BJ machines
and many other machines for about a week. Only a few people knew
about that.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richardef4" <richardef4@> wrote:
> The casino changed a dealt bj from 3:2 to 1:1. Seems two local burn
> artists were playing two machines apiece at $50.00 a hand to get
> 5000 points for the $50.00 free play.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
<paladingamingllc@...> wrote:
Again, your hobby is my business. I can't begin to tell you how much
money the well meaning recreational player has cost me over the last
three years. Knowledge is truly a dangerous thing sometimes. Next
time
you find an IGT 3-2 blackjack machine, just keep it to yourself.>>>
I'm confused. On August 10, 2006 in message 63997, you wrote:
<<One Strip casino has a 99.73 IGT video BJ machine, but I played it
once for the mail, wasn't impressed by the mail off the game, and
haven't been back. All things considered, it's kind of a marginal play
at best, but if the offers just get a little better, I'm on it.
You're not throwing stones from a glasshouse are you, Paladin? 
Even operators of my caliber mess up sometimes. I had the ER wrong
based on using calculations from Arnold Snyder (who knows Paladin
well); they've been corrected by Shackleford and a programmer whose
work I trust. Speaking of Shackleford, the basic strategy on his
website has a lot of errors on it, I've seen two private strategy
sheets, one from a Vegas pro, and from an AC pro. The AC pro has the
better one, slightly edging out the one from the Vegas pro. Both are
superior to the Shackleford one.
The casino was Circus, yes. But at the time, the mail was very poor.
At least it was for me. When MGM Mirage decided to put it on the
block, the mail got better fast. Now, actually, it's probably
scheduled for demolition sometime probably in 2009 and will likely be
part of the proposed City Center North project.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vegasvpplayer" <vegasvpplayer@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
<paladingamingllc@> wrote:
>>
> Again, your hobby is my business. I can't begin to tell you how much
> money the well meaning recreational player has cost me over the last
> three years. Knowledge is truly a dangerous thing sometimes. Next
time
> you find an IGT 3-2 blackjack machine, just keep it to yourself.>>>I'm confused. On August 10, 2006 in message 63997, you wrote:
<<One Strip casino has a 99.73 IGT video BJ machine, but I played it
once for the mail, wasn't impressed by the mail off the game, and
haven't been back. All things considered, it's kind of a marginal play
at best, but if the offers just get a little better, I'm on it.
>>>>You're not throwing stones from a glasshouse are you, Paladin?
S, let's get to the point. For some of us, this is a real job, and
we'd appreciate it greatly if you'd have more respect for that
concept. My annual income from this nonreal job is consistently in 6
figures, which is better than the national average. Part of that job
is actually going out and finding the plays, and that part is as
equally as time consuming as actually playing (which is why it annoys
me to no end to see so-called authorities begging for information
from the gaming public, when they offer nothing in return). In short,
because it's your hobby, try to open your eyes a little bit and
understand because you don't have the inclination, desire or perhaps
talent to be successful at playing machines, it doesn't mean that
other people can't or shouldn't be able to. That's what you're
proposing here.
You've been lectured a few times about a) keeping your mouth shut, and
b) playing 100% wild card games with a cheat sheet in hand. There is
nothing ingenious, and certainly not profitable about openly rubbing
it in the casino's face, which is what you've done and essentially
suggest. The casino doesn't play by the Marquis of Queensbury rules,
nor would it ever voluntary serve as an ATM for you or me if they knew
better.
You're invited to continue this disucssion with me privately, either
on my Yahoo address or paladin@paladingaming.net
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "sjs5572z" <sjs5572z@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
<paladingamingllc@> wrote:
I don't care how much the "well meaning recreational player" has
cost you. I am just appalled that anyone thinks they have a
proprietary right to good plays. If your income shrinks, it's not
exactly going to have a deleterious effect on the US economy.
God forbid you have to get a real job. Sheesh!
I've heard about that as well, but couldn't get to it in time. That
problem seems to have been fixed, however. I think the FP was like 1%,
which makes the certainty of such a play very high, assuming the
player is playing correctly. The Binion's play a couple of years ago
was in the 1% range as well.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "spacetrucking" <spacetrucking@...> wrote:
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richardef4" <richardef4@> wrote:
> > The casino changed a dealt bj from 3:2 to 1:1. Seems two local burn
> > artists were playing two machines apiece at $50.00 a hand to get
> > 5000 points for the $50.00 free play.Many machines at the Circus were also paying double points
earlier this month. You got 1 point for every $5 bet instead of $10.
I don't know if it was a promo or if it had something to do with the
new card, but people were getting 1.2% freeplay on the BJ machines
and many other machines for about a week. Only a few people knew
about that.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
<paladingamingllc@...> wrote:
>
> The casino changed a dealt bj from 3:2 to 1:1. Seems two local
burn
> artists were playing two machines apiece at $50.00 a hand to get
5000
> points for the $50.00 free play.
.4 approaches being a good play on VBJ, the benchmark is about .5%.
One of my partners in crime is very unhappy with one of the posters
here, and I need to have a word with the other.A local burnout artist could care less about the $50. At 1500 hands
an
hour, he's making close to $300/hr with low variance (99.9+.5=100.4
X
1500x50). And I have a short list of local pros who would come in
and
torch the game.
VPFree killed another good play again (unless it was in the Advisor
first). I can think of any number of pros who lurk here waiting for
a
well meaning recreational player to innocuously out a play, like it
happened last week here. Which reminds me, speaking of outing...Again, your hobby is my business. I can't begin to tell you how much
money the well meaning recreational player has cost me over the last
three years. Knowledge is truly a dangerous thing sometimes. Next
time
you find an IGT 3-2 blackjack machine, just keep it to yourself.
"Southwest Airlines, may I help you?"
"Yeah, this is the Fremont Street Commando! Next flight to Vegas,
please!"
"Circus Circus reservations, may I help you?"
"Yeah, this is the Fremont Street Commando...."
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richardef4" <richardef4@> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
<paladingamingllc@...> wrote:
S, let's get to the point. For some of us, this is a real job, and
we'd appreciate it greatly if you'd have more respect for that
concept. My annual income from this nonreal job is consistently in
6
figures, which is better than the national average. Part of that
job
is actually going out and finding the plays, and that part is as
equally as time consuming as actually playing (which is why it
annoys
me to no end to see so-called authorities begging for information
from the gaming public, when they offer nothing in return). In
short,
because it's your hobby, try to open your eyes a little bit and
understand because you don't have the inclination, desire or
perhaps
talent to be successful at playing machines, it doesn't mean that
other people can't or shouldn't be able to. That's what you're
proposing here.You've been lectured a few times about a) keeping your mouth shut,
and
b) playing 100% wild card games with a cheat sheet in hand. There
is
nothing ingenious, and certainly not profitable about openly
rubbing
it in the casino's face, which is what you've done and essentially
suggest. The casino doesn't play by the Marquis of Queensbury
rules,
nor would it ever voluntary serve as an ATM for you or me if they
knew
better.
You're invited to continue this disucssion with me privately,
either
on my Yahoo address or paladin@...
You can lecture me all you want!!! When you actually own the
machines in the casinos, then I'll listen to you. And while I don't
disrespect your profession, I'm not going to worry about you
missing out on profitable plays. After all, you're supposedly
making over 100K a year even with all of these "lost plays."
I've seen enough games burned out by "pros" playing two machines
and/or using tag teams. As such, I will not brook reprimands from
the likes of you. Finally, although 2006 was not a good year for me,
I am well into six figures for 2007, greatly eclipsing my losses for
the prior year. So, your claims that I am not a successful player
are simply untrue. Just because I have a life outside of Video
Poker doesn't mean I can't play the game quite well....thank you
very much!!
"Viva LA Recreational Player."
"paladingamingllc" <paladingamingllc@...> wrote:
S, let's get to the point. For some of us, this is a real job,
and we'd appreciate it greatly if you'd have more respect for
that concept.
Mostly commonly, people have jobs that involve offering goods or
services at a price. I personally have some computer skills. I let
people know about my skills, and then people hire me. Information
flows freely (I never lie about what I have to offer). Not only do I
get my paycheck, but my employers benefit also (as they only hire me
after making a fully-informed decision that it's to their benefit to
do so).
Since both me and any employer benefits, my job is always secure. If
one employer fires me, there's always another who finds my skills
helpful. If that ever dries up, I'll learn some new skill that other
people value. Most jobs are like this. God Bless America.
A job as a video poker pro seems somewhat different, in that there's
no one but the pro himself who's benefitting. (It's different if the
pro shares information, freely or for a price. But simply finding and
exploiting positive VP opportunity for oneself benefits no one but
oneself.) I don't disrespect this job; as a free-market libertarian,
I happily tolerate anyone supporting themselves in any way that
doesn't involve deception or violence.
BUT I WILL NOTE THIS: If your job benefits lots of other people, and
is based on free flow of information, then your job will be secure.
If your job benefits only yourself, and requires an obstructed flow
of information, then it will be far less secure. This seems to be
natural economic law, and it may be respected also.
Stuart (RandomStu)
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/fungames.htm
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/
Mostly commonly, people have jobs that involve offering goods or
services at a price. I personally have some computer skills. I let
people know about my skills, and then people hire me. Information
flows freely (I never lie about what I have to offer). Not only do I
get my paycheck, but my employers benefit also (as they only hire me
after making a fully-informed decision that it's to their benefit to
do so).Since both me and any employer benefits, my job is always secure. If
one employer fires me, there's always another who finds my skills
helpful. If that ever dries up, I'll learn some new skill that other
people value. Most jobs are like this. God Bless America.A job as a video poker pro seems somewhat different, in that there's
no one but the pro himself who's benefitting. (It's different if the
pro shares information, freely or for a price. But simply finding and
exploiting positive VP opportunity for oneself benefits no one but
oneself.) I don't disrespect this job; as a free-market libertarian,
I happily tolerate anyone supporting themselves in any way that
doesn't involve deception or violence.BUT I WILL NOTE THIS: If your job benefits lots of other people, and
is based on free flow of information, then your job will be secure.
If your job benefits only yourself, and requires an obstructed flow
of information, then it will be far less secure. This seems to be
natural economic law, and it may be respected also.Stuart (RandomStu)
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/fungames.htm
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/
I think your first point has much more validity than your second.
Professional gambling is eternal. There will always be a way for a
pro to make money. No matter how things change, it's as secure as any
job. Having plays burned out is no more threatening to a pro than an
employee who has many other job offers is threatened by getting fired.
But it's its purely selfish and competitive aspect, regardless of how
generous I might be with what I might win, that is its biggest
drawback for me. It's because of that that I wouldn't call it a "real
job," regardless of how much skill and discipline it takes.
I'm going to have to disagree with that one. Ask any machine player in
Atlantic City right now. I walk into the Castle (Marina) or the Plaza
or Caesars, I feel like I'm front of a 7-11, so many players are
hitting me up for (out of state) plays.
Now, if you want to include the need to relocate, you may have a
point, but I can only think of a couple of pros who did that, and they
were very locust-like in their approach; move from market to market
burning stuff down until they got tapped on the shoulder once too often.
The players will probably always be smarter than the suits, but the
inquiry doesn't end there. There's way too much information out there,
too many people know how to play now, not like it was 5 years ago, or
10 years ago. In any business, information is your greatest asset, and
the more public information is, the less value it has. The group may
not care for my railings about this, but this is the simple,
unvarnished, (and thank you, Rob Singer) and the undeniable truth.
Don't get me wrong, I root for everyone here to win. It's just that at
the end of the day, the expectation keeps dwindling and I have to do
more to get to it. On fora like VPFree, you're always going to have
this segment that can't help themselves when they find something,
seeming never being able to remember that at least a dozen high-end
pros (who would never even think of posting here) scan this board
daily waiting for that segment to do something stupid, like ask, "is a
40-coin 4K bonus on a $1 10-play Jacks at Casino X a good play?"
It's not a job, it's a profession, for several different reasons.
Finally, although I've mentioned this before, as well as others, VBJ
plays are so strong (because of the low variance and ability to put
through a ton of coin per hour, even with $10 bets), that they really
shouldn't be discussed here ever. Put it on the board, someone will be
traveling to burn it down posthaste.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Tom Robertson <madameguyon@...> wrote:
Professional gambling is eternal. There will always be a way for a
pro to make money. No matter how things change, it's as secure as any
job. Having plays burned out is no more threatening to a pro than an
employee who has many other job offers is threatened by getting fired.
But it's its purely selfish and competitive aspect, regardless of how
generous I might be with what I might win, that is its biggest
drawback for me. It's because of that that I wouldn't call it a "real
job," regardless of how much skill and discipline it takes.
No actually the project will be called Slots-A-Fun phase II. It will
be an 18.5 billion dollar multiuse megadevelopment, jointly co-owned by
the two companies that own the strip. It will feature high rise
condo's that sell for $70,000 per square foot, a state of the art spa
facility, upscale shopping, a 3 million square foot convention center,
and they were even toying with the idea of adding a casino but since
none of the operators on the strip care about casino's anymore that
part is still iffy.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
<paladingamingllc@...> wrote:
···
The casino was Circus, yes. But at the time, the mail was very poor.
At least it was for me. When MGM Mirage decided to put it on the
block, the mail got better fast. Now, actually, it's probably
scheduled for demolition sometime probably in 2009 and will likely be
part of the proposed City Center North project.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
<paladingamingllc@...> wrote:!
S, let's get to the point. For some of us, this is a real job, and
we'd appreciate it greatly if you'd have more respect for that
concept. My annual income from this nonreal job is consistently in
6
figures, which is better than the national average. Part of that
job
is actually going out and finding the plays,
I think you give "pros" too much credit and here's why. Let me
mention that you may be one of the 10% real pros. This is not
intended toward you. You have good point about keeping good positive
play to yourself. This is what I think of the other 90% of pros:
There are those who think they are pros. 90% of the pros are folks
who think they are pros. Back in the day, in the 80s and 90s, the
pro finds a good play and proceeds to make it miserable for any
player on the machine that is taking up "his" space. It's the same
today. The pro thinks he is entitled to the play and no one else is.
They make themselves obvious to the casino staff. Long serious hours
of obvious fast play, flashing a pocket full of cash, playing 2
machines and sour demeanor are a trademarks of the think they are
pros. They are usually the ones who jinx the play then sit around
and complain about the recreational players. Wanna hear a pro cry?
Wait till someone hits a jackpot that they think they should have
hit. If they have to wait for a full pay machine during a promo they
cry again. The real pros at vp understand things have changed just
like the live poker players realize it's a new ball game. He doesn't
complain about it either.
Last weekend in AC I took notice of a group of "pros" playing vp at
a 3 times cb. They took over a few machines and grouped around a few
games. Sitting close to these guys you could hear them making fun of
the folks who were playing games other than 9/6 JOB. Yet they were
lucky to net a tenth of a % plus cash coupons. Many are live poker
players who play for comps. Many mumble to themselves. Most are
total burnouts. They think they are pros.
Bottom line; just because you make money at something doesn't make
you a pro.
It's just my observation. Ya can't always blame the other guy.
Cheers...Jeep
S is not a pro, one of my partners in crime bumped into him the other
night, as he was playing with the sheet (again!), the PIC talked him
into not using it (I think).
The AC casino you refer to has a bunch of wannabe poker pros who play
VP. Having seen the no limit events on ESPN from AC, "wannabe" is more
than generous (although a couple are the real deal-there is nothing
wannabe about Chris Reslock, for example). One of those guys went on a
close to half million dollar tear playing (imperfect) DJW, hence, no
more game.
Very good post, BTW. Many of the real AC pros are great all around
gaming talents, I'm sure you weren't talking about those guys.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "whitejeeps" <whitejeeps@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
<paladingamingllc@> wrote:!
Pallading,
I never represented to anyone that I'm a pro. In fact, my prior
posts clearly indicate that I'm a rec player. I only go to the
casinos twice a month. As such, my heretofore need to use cheat
sheets on games I don't know well is due to the fact that I don't
play very often. I am recovering from cancer and so this is therapy
for me as well as making money.
I will try to respect "V" and not use any sheets, because I like him.
However, as "V" mentioned about the AC TROP play that was recently
burned out, a "PRO" from CA came in and played it to the tune of
$500K until it was dead. Someone like me, who never played at TROP
more than once a month is not what you guys need to worry about.
Just my opinion.
Respectfully,
S
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
<paladingamingllc@...> wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
> <paladingamingllc@> wrote:!S is not a pro, one of my partners in crime bumped into him the
other
night, as he was playing with the sheet (again!), the PIC talked
him
into not using it (I think).
The AC casino you refer to has a bunch of wannabe poker pros who
play
VP. Having seen the no limit events on ESPN from AC, "wannabe" is
more
than generous (although a couple are the real deal-there is nothing
wannabe about Chris Reslock, for example). One of those guys went
on a
close to half million dollar tear playing (imperfect) DJW, hence,
no
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "whitejeeps" <whitejeeps@> wrote:
more game.Very good post, BTW. Many of the real AC pros are great all around
gaming talents, I'm sure you weren't talking about those guys.
i have NEVER seen VBJ in ac, except for the worthless 7 hand at once machines at the Taj thats not worth playing because the BJ pays EVEN MONEY. but i have seen the 3-2 VBJ machines at Parx made by shufflemaster.
anyone know of any newly installed dealers angels VBJ machines either in or outside vegas? not the ones in Jean or in a few vegas MGM properties i already know about. i know of lots of shufflemaster machines, in AZ, deadwood, laughlin, arkansas, etc, most of which arent worth playing due to not being able to see the shuffle point and comp rates which suck.
dont worry about me, im no threat, im looking for ones to grind out free rooms only and spread bets of $1-25 3 hands each. certainly not enough to be a threat or have the casino take them out. id gladly pay a small fee on paypal to find some dealers angels.